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Old 12-09-2013, 10:05 AM   #41
richfaa
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I did not get a lemon. I got a average production Montana. My previous 2006 3400 Montana had 5 failed holding tanks over the 7 years we had it.

Frame flex, Stress cracks,blown tires, Hinges pulling out of Compartment doors. Fridge and Micro wave failures. Holding tank leaks. Interior walls pulling away. Rusty lug nuts, rusty fender screws, holding tank leaks. Anyone have one or more of those issues. Common problems and normal off the production line. No slams just fact.
 
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:08 PM   #42
oldelmer1
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by davidaf

Not sure if anybody has done this or if it's even possible, but what about a sensor in the underbelly to detect moisture?

I haven't looked but can the underbelly be pulled back and re attached w/o much issue?
A sensor in the underbelly would be a very good idea, Lowes sells the 120V, don't know about a 12V one.

In order to take your underbelly down, you just remove the screws underneath and it comes right down.

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Old 12-09-2013, 01:47 PM   #43
Big Dave
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Just to add my two cents, My black tanks leaked everytime it fill past the 3/4 full mark, so kept complaining to the dealer and tney kept saying they did not see how it could be leaking and that I had to have done something to make it leak!

Anyway perseverance and tenacity paid off last month the dealer and Keystone agreed to replace the black tank, so I had to pack up my home and take it to the dealer as they would not do it here in the RV park.

So when I went to pick it up, the shop foreman and Manager came up to and said they would like to apologize because as it turned out it was a factory defect.

The top of the tank when they took it out had 2 sets of foot prints still clearly visible on top of the tank, they told me someone at the factory when this unit was built must have walked on the tank!

The warrantee runs out this month so glad they found and fixed the problem!!!
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:08 PM   #44
richfaa
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The top of the tank when they took it out had 2 sets of foot prints still clearly visible on top of the tank, they told me someone at the factory when this unit was built must have walked on the tank!"

That would have been impossible to do at the plant on the assembly line .It must have been done before the tank went into the frame and those foot prints would have been clearly visible to the "old world craftsman" that installed the tank. That is what I mean about "poor build quality"

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Old 12-10-2013, 03:37 AM   #45
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They are never going to take the time to correct little defects like that on the assembly line.

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Old 12-10-2013, 04:01 AM   #46
bncinwv
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We have never had a problem with the tanks in all three models. With that said, the gray tank is usually left open simply because with three women taking showers, I would be dumping multiple times a day which is not going to happen. I close it every couple of days to allow a surge after dumping the black tank. Black tank is dumped every other day, whether it needs it or not. Galley tank on new rig will stay open all the time since washer and dishwasher drain into it, that surge should prevent deposits from forming. On previous rigs it was on every other day schedule as well. I think the key may be that we do not fill the tanks to capacity ever and dump more frequently than is really needed. It seems to work for us, perhaps it worth considering adopting a more frequent dumping schedule? Just a thought from a rambling mind!
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Old 12-10-2013, 04:24 AM   #47
bullroc3
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Last August at the Mid-Atlantic Rally there was a new Montana on the hill on a permanent site. I remarked to Judy several times that the underbelly was bowed down. I betcha that this one is having the same problem.
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Old 12-10-2013, 02:30 PM   #48
richfaa
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we do our tank dumping pretty much as you do Bingo and we still have two leaking tanks that failed just by filling them to wash out the hose.
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Old 12-11-2013, 01:31 AM   #49
pineranch
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Rich,
I believe you have a history with defective tanks, Keystone is not dealing with a rookie. Keep them honest.
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Old 12-11-2013, 01:49 AM   #50
akf15e
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I also had a leaking gray water tank recently. Local shop was able to find a crack and patch it. Who knows how long it will hold up? I find it ridiculous that we even have to advocate dumping tanks so frequently just to relieve the stress of the weight. So are our rigs designed to travel down the roads or not? When I lived in AK we frequently boondocked in our SOB. If I ever equip Monty with a generator I'd like to do the same. If these tanks can't travel with full loads of water or waste, what good are they? I should be able to travel to a dump station without fear of my tanks coming apart. Sounds like Keystones QC is getting worse, not better. My 2003 Mountaineer was such a trouble free rig that I became a repeat customer and bought current rig. It has had so many issues that I have lost tack of them all. I had considered trading up for a newer one in hopes the quality has improved, but I am not so sure after seeing Rich's experience. I'm now considering higher end SOBs or a Class A (they are built to drive down the highways, right?) because my wife is ready to take an early retirement and we'd like to do some long timing. I am not confident at all in current rig's ability to cooperate for a long journey.
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Old 12-11-2013, 02:12 AM   #51
richfaa
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I would not expect better from a SOB or a higher priced unit. This is a industry wide problem. I thought I had seen the build quality was improving and Montana was making some Quality control progress.
We are on track for more problems with this 2013 3402 than we had with the 06 3400.

we will have to spend much money for repairs and improvements . We will not go for a better camper and brand. We are considering a place here in Florida for the winter and getting out of the RV business.
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Old 12-11-2013, 02:47 AM   #52
richfaa
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We can see the leak in the galley tank but can not get to it. The one piece underbelly is a good thing for insulation and keeping out the cold however the only way to get at that leak and the tank is to drop nearly the entire or maybe the the entire underbelly. The alternative is to cut a flap in the underbelly which I am gonna have to do.
We are going to try eternabond. we are not happy to cut up the underbelly. I am sure the extended warranty will not pay for a new underbelly. There is little chance of having the tanks replaced while here in Florida. We may have to wrap it up and limp home.
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Old 12-11-2013, 02:59 AM   #53
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Rich, that is what I had to do. I was able to make a few "precision" cuts to get a look at the connections and confirm they weren't the problem. I taped them back up myself. I actually tried dropping a good portion of the underbelly first, but the screws were all so weak and rusty that the first several snapped off as I tried to remove them, so I gave up. The shop had to cut to locate the crack. So far the tape jobs I and they did are holding up.

Your comment about SOBs is probably accurate, at least for ones in my price range.. I have been looking at Mobile Suites and lurking on their forums. Seems there are still issues, though not nearly as numerous as Keystone. Definitely more robust construction, but at a huge weight price. I don't want to be right back where I was when towing my 3400 with a 3/4 ton and always worried about weight. As for a Class A, well that is a huge investment, so I may be better served to take some of that money and continue to make repairs and improvements to my 3400. I just want to believe that those things are actually designed to roll down the highway and not come apart.
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Old 12-11-2013, 03:10 AM   #54
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Is it possible these holding tanks are being made from recycled Marathon tires?? Seems all Mfrs in the RV industry are cutting corners to control price, but at the customers expense in the end. I'm sure there are better made/stronger tanks out there but at an increased price.
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Old 12-11-2013, 03:38 AM   #55
bncinwv
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Rich, consider gorilla tape. Black matches underbelly and I have had good success with it. It sticks!!
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Old 12-11-2013, 03:59 AM   #56
richfaa
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Bingo.. We do not leave Home without Gorilla Tape, Gorilla glue, Eternabond. The flap is cut and the leak marked. We are letting the mess dry out and will with the help of another MOC member do a fix tomorrow. Got some good pictures to send to the service center with water in the underbelly and the leak clearly visible.
Even tho the underbelly in the 06 3400 was several pieces it had many flaps cut and much Gorilla tape used.
My plan is to get the galley leak fixed. The shower leak appears to be about half way up the tank so if we leave it open we are OK. If we can get the leaks stopped till we get home we will drag it up to D&T in Goshen and have then do the job properly.

Right now we are a great advertisement for Keystone Montana. Undebelly hanging , Flap hanging/Smelly water running down the pad and down the street, Passing folks ask me what brand is that and I proudly say. This is the best you can buy, Top of the line 2013 3402 Big Sky by Keystone Montana. I got the smell stopped. But the spectacle remains.
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Old 12-11-2013, 05:55 AM   #57
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All of this leads to an obvious question. Is there only one manufacturer of these tanks? The reason I ask is the float tanks on my boat lift are guaranteed for a lifetime. Is there another tank manufacturer with thicker walls and some sort of guarantee. Would have to be better than putting the same failure prone tanks back into service with repairs or replacing with the same? Just curious. And I definitely feel for you and your problems.
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Old 12-11-2013, 06:26 AM   #58
richfaa
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I Really do not know who makes the Montana tanks now. When we replaced the two tanks in the 06 we went right down the street from the plant and picked them up. I would doubt that rv manufacturers user a high quality holding tanks as in the boat industry.

we are not very surprised by the failures we are having . We are extremely disappointed as we expected better as we did purchase a second Montana.
IMO many of us are having similar problems but have not said so. We need to say so and we need to say so to Keystone.

If they do the Premium" big sky as we heard at the rally with the same build quality issues it will be a flop for the company.
Put a little more $$ into quality control and build quality and show the RV consumer what you can do.
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:10 AM   #59
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Your comment about SOBs is probably accurate, at least for ones in my price range.. I have been looking at Mobile Suites and lurking on their forums. Seems there are still issues, though not nearly as numerous as Keystone. Definitely more robust construction, but at a huge weight price. I don't want to be right back where I was when towing my 3400 with a 3/4 ton and always worried about weight. As for a Class A, well that is a huge investment, so I may be better served to take some of that money and continue to make repairs and improvements to my 3400. I just want to believe that those things are actually designed to roll down the highway and not come apart.
[/quote]

One thing to consider is, are the lower number of complaints on Mobile Suites due to fewer rigs on the road or better quality. Don't know myself, just saying.
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:38 AM   #60
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Rich, here is a link to a holding tank manufacturer in Elkart, In. They claim to be the number 1 supplier in the RV industry. It may be worth a call to find out if they manufactured yours. I don't know if they could help but it couldn't hurt. Good luck. I went through a problem with my hydraulic lines and was not satisfied until all were replaced by a trailer repair company. http://www.epi-roto.com/plastic-holding-tanks/
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