Montana Issues - True or False

[topjustice]

Hello Forum. Well, I finally sold my 2014 39 ft. Alpine in furtherance of my plan to purchase a new Montana 3791RD. Because it is almost fall it's not practical to buy one until spring. I have done a lot of research over the last few months and I have read many so called reviews and opinions on other forums that owners have regularly complained about the quality, workmanship and many other complaints about their Montana purchases. I have seen a few of those complaints on this forum. Other than general sloppy workmanship and quality issues, a lot of the complaints were about the A/C units, furnace and thermostat, refrigerator, and leaks in general. What I'm wondering is if these complainers are nothing more than trolls on these sites or if these quality issues are real and concerning. In other words, are the issues complained of the exception or the rule and are the issues something to be really concerned about. Another common complaint is that Keystone is horrible in dealing with warranty issues and/or neglects and refuses to honor its warranty obligations. Some say that customer support is totally lacking at Keystone. Please help me through this so I can feel secure in my proposed purchase or if I should look elsewhere. I love the Montana look, the layouts and general cosmetic look of the units, but are there hidden problems that haunt these units? I would really like to hear opinions from you with actual experience as owners. Thank you for any help/opinions you can offer.

[DQDick]

We can all only talk about our personal experience. We are on our second Montana and as full timers we use the heck out of them. In my opinion the warranty issues revolve around the dealer more than anything else. How they present the issue or if they even bother makes all the difference. We have had Keystone authorize a repair by a private RV repair person when there wasn't a dealer available (sent us a check right away) and also authorized a Camping World who didn't sell Montana's to make a warranty repair because I already knew the Keystone dealer in that area was crap. You also need to remember that we have thousands of members but we bring the problems to this forum so you can get a bad impression by reading what you see here. Also, I personally know a couple who went to the higher cost and quality of a Mobile Suites only to have their cabinets fall off the wall so, again in my opinion, bad construction is everywhere in this industry.

[dieselguy]

I'll be among the first to respond. All RV manufacturers have quality of build issues now days. Just browse any of their forums. As for the MOC ... I really don't think there are many "trolls" on here. There are several owners with real world legitimate issues. The trouble is if you are lucky and have had near zero issues ... or if you are one of the unlucky and have had disappointment after disappointment ... you have a difficult time relating to either camp as you've had the opposite experience. I spin a wrench on RV's from time to time ... there are more RV's with issues that many dealers can keep up with. Disagree??? Take a look at their service lots crammed with units or try to book an appointment for service within say a couple of weeks. Just look at the list of MOCers signed up for the rally's factory tech appointments. That being said ... Forest River Forums play out the same as do Jayco. I will mention in closing that Keystone's customer service once legendary has slipped quite a bit in the past few years. Some on the MOC know how to get their attention ... many don't. Do your homework, find a floor plan that suits, match it to your truck, and hope it all plays out well.

[pkbridges77]

Candidly, the reasons you cite are why we didn't buy a new Montana, and I havent seen any trolls here. Just good people who spend good money and just want some quality and customer service on their major investment. And while we are very happy with our SOB, the problems exist in almost all manufacturers across the industry. It seems luck of the draw on how yours will be built. There are still a few quality manufacturers in business - Arctic Fox, Luxe, New Horizons. But you pay big bucks.

Choose a great dealer, do a thorough PDI, and don't take delivery until it's fixed to your satisfaction, and you might be ok.

[Phil P]

Hi

My personal experience is the following.

10’s of thousands of dollars in denied warranty I am referring to manufacturing defects needed to be corrected to make the unit usable.

Now for some clarification.

Had I purchased from a dealer that had a competent service department I may well have made out better. On the other hand if Keystone / Thor had any concern for their consumer this dealer would no longer be a Keystone / Thor dealer. This is not the case I still see people that have purchased from this dealer sitting in rented units while there is being mutilated by the dealer’s service department.

A quality dealer with a properly staffed competent service department would probably improve your chance of having a satisfactory experience.

Last but not least get all of your discrepancies on a work order and get a completed work order in your position before leaving the dealer this means all documentation DO NOT let the dealer tell you there isn’t any paperwork because it was work performed on the Pre Delivery Inspection or warranty.

When doing your PDI don’t accept any excuses about this get documentation showing what you found wrong and what the dealer did to correct it.

A lot of my warranty items were denied because the dealer didn’t document the problem and report it to Keystone. The biggest one cost me $10,000.00 because the dealer called a water leak condensation and did not put it on the work order. Keystone denied the repair even though my trailer was one of a group that Keystone had to replace the end walls of the large slide on the grounds that the problem had not been reported to them when we first complained about it.

On top of all of this Keystone / Thor will not let you change dealers. I took ours to another dealer to get the waist tanks worked on when the unit was only 90 day old but Keystone / Thor would not pay for repairs there and wanted me to tow the unit 1,700 miles back to the dealer.

Have you attorney read the warranty and you will find that it is written in a way to shield Keystone / Thor not to help the new owner.

Phil P

PS: after having all of the warranty items repaired to my satisfaction I now have 100,000 miles on this unit and am impressed with how well the house is holding up to this kind of use.

[Loneoak]

Like dieselguy says, all manufacturers have quality issues these days. There has been a lot published on the internet about that fact. You can't get away from it.

One thing to keep in mind is that for every person who gets on the forums to complain, there are many more who don't say anything because they are not having issues. You will see more negative than positive comments online because more people will complain than will get on and say they love their unit and all is good.

We have not had our Monty long enough to know how the overall quality is. We bought it in the spring and have been out three times with it. We had an issue with the motor in one of the slides. The dealer we purchased from is far from home so we found a local dealer that would do the work and they were amazing.

I think it's the luck of the draw whether you have issues or not. If you like the look and the floor plans, you should probably buy based on that. So far our unit seems to be of good quality. After the winter in Florida with it, we should have a better idea.

I hope this helps.

[Phil P]

Originally Posted by Loneoak

Like dieselguy says, all manufacturers have quality issues these days. There has been a lot published on the internet about that fact. You can't get away from it.
.

Hi

It’s not whether or not you will have issues with the product the problem is how the manufacturer handles the claims about these issues.

The proof of the pudding is in the descriptions of the events posted all have a serious problem with customer service at Keystone / Thor.

As stated there are still 3 companies that produce units of a much higher quality and you will note that 2 out of the 3 are not located in Indiana but all of them handle their warranty at the factory level.

Phil P

[mazboy]

love it when we all use paragraphs......

my experience has been that Montana has responded to all of my issues.

my issues were primarily the front end having 'flexing.'

over the years montana has replaced my unit for another unit and rebuilt the front end of the replacement unit.

If there is one problem with these units it would be 'flexing' as far as I'm concerned.

[speedster100]

We went from several Keystone products to a new Crossroads product in 2012, had many years of no real issues with the Keystones (5 different Cougars). The Crossroads purchase was researched extensively prior to buying it, offered up a 2 and 5 warranty at time of purchase and everything I read indicated after sales service was excellent. WRONG.... worst RV I've owned in >30yrs of RV'ing, our unit & many others of that year were in for repair weekly, leaks that were never fixed, parts breaking and constantly repairing small things each time out. After about 10 tries at repairing slide leaks with no success the dealer was frustrated, Crossroads dropped the 2 and 5 warranty, the dealer dropped Crossroads products and we traded it for the Montana, so glad to be back with Keystone products. Yes we've had some issues, its a big RV going down the road at 60 - 70mph, put thousands of miles on it, have had to fix small stuff and had one slide issue were the drive gear crapped out over 2 years of use. Dealer fixed it better than new (runs quieter) as they upgraded motor & gearbox to high torque unit.

They are RV's and as such you should expect to have to fix small things like trim coming off, small parts etc, as I said these things go down the rough roads of North America at 60 - 70mph, try doing that with your house and see how it stands up.

Overall I am quite happy with the Montana, when compared to other more expensive Brands the fit & finish's are superior IMHO, the small problems are similar if not the same in the other more expensive brands and in many cases far less with the Montana. My buddy bought a Big Horn at the same time as we bought the Montana, his is in for the second replacement of the sides as they are delaminating........... lost weeks of use and not cool in my books considering he paid almost $15,000 more for same size unit....

[Razrbk]

Overall, I'm very pleased with my Montana - best bang for the buck that I could find.

My ownership complaints are primarily dealer related - poor unit prep and bad service departments.

My Keystone customer service experience gets an average rating. I really dislike the warranty repair process; especially, the warranty authorization and the parts' procurement and distribution process - very inefficient.

I believe the forum complaints are legitimate and not troll induced.

[Mike117]

I guess I am so far lucky. My 2014 HC I bought from a friend has had minor things. Molding come apart due to just stables. Some fancy window stuff pulled loose at a corner. Bathroom fan circuit board. All minor fixes. I don't have the miles on mine as other and have had a few minor issues that were caused by me.

Obviously I am a novice to most here but I had an Alpenlite trailer that was built excellent but moved up to the 5er for future long term snowbird living. For what I paid and could afford good value for the money. Will see next year when I hit the road.

Good luck in your decision.

[richfaa]

Every Manufacturer has quality issues as stated your dealer makes a big difference in service. We are on our 2nd Montana since 2006 . We hade our share of problems with both of them. We have a great dealer and have never had a problem with Keystone customer service responding to our problems. We are long timers and use these Montana's hard. Yes we do have a list for the 15 mins with a tech at the fall rally. We had one last year and Keystone took care of it.

[Denny and Angie Miller]

We are on our 2nd Keystone, 1st a 2004 Cougar and now a 2017 Montana HC. The only issue I have to complain about is the A/C in the new unit. I found my return air ducts collapsed to the point there was minimal air flow. I was able to fix it myself by installing some PVC pipe in the air duct to keep it open and that has made all the difference. There have been a few small things I thought could have been better, but over all I would still buy another Keystone product. That may change if I come across a warranty issue that isn't taken care of fairly.

[MARK A]

Originally Posted by topjustice

Hello Forum. Well, I finally sold my 2014 39 ft. Alpine in furtherance of my plan to purchase a new Montana 3791RD. Because it is almost fall it's not practical to buy one until spring. I have done a lot of research over the last few months and I have read many so called reviews and opinions on other forums that owners have regularly complained about the quality, workmanship and many other complaints about their Montana purchases. I have seen a few of those complaints on this forum. Other than general sloppy workmanship and quality issues, a lot of the complaints were about the A/C units, furnace and thermostat, refrigerator, and leaks in general. What I'm wondering is if these complainers are nothing more than trolls on these sites or if these quality issues are real and concerning. In other words, are the issues complained of the exception or the rule and are the issues something to be really concerned about. Another common complaint is that Keystone is horrible in dealing with warranty issues and/or neglects and refuses to honor its warranty obligations. Some say that customer support is totally lacking at Keystone. Please help me through this so I can feel secure in my proposed purchase or if I should look elsewhere. I love the Montana look, the layouts and general cosmetic look of the units, but are there hidden problems that haunt these units? I would really like to hear opinions from you with actual experience as owners. Thank you for any help/opinions you can offer.

Montana builds a nice trailer, probably in the top 3 in their price level. ALL RV's will have issues of some kind or another. This is just an observation but here goes... I have observed others, in use of their rigs that would explain most if not all of their problems. First while pulling, they give no consideration to rough roads. They drag them through at highway speed, I have seen trailer tires bounce off the pavement, -- slow down--. In campgrounds you can hear them slamming doors inside and out, now I realize the outside compartments have 'slam latches' but the gas shocks provide enough force, no need to help them along. These are the same folks that need to adjust the mirrors on their pickup after they close the door they slam it so hard. There's use and there's abuse, abuse equipment and it will fail. Now I am not in any way defending the RV industry, it is a dark and slimy place. Nobody tells the truth and all but a few are all the same.
Sorry for all the words but your Montana choice is a sound one.
Mark

[mlh]

What I have noticed after being a member here since 04 is the customer service doesn't seem to be like it was a few years ago and quality has gone down. I don't mean the products Keystone puts in them. It's not the refrigerator or the water pump and that type of thing. It's the overall build quality of the unit and then Keystone won't stand behind them.
My own personal experience, none. I buy like new used. I'm a tight wad.
Lynwood

[Woodcraver]

We have a 2017 3790RD, same floorplan as yours. Love the floorplan and layout and all the extra basement storage. We live in it full time. Always small issues with new rv, either the dealer or I have fixed them. Our problem is with the whisper quiet Ac system, it sucks or in our case it doesn't suck return air. Had to put PVC tubing in return ducts to open them up, modify all outlet covers so more cool air could get out. Rear/main Ac freezes up and stops pulling in return air. Just spend 3 days at dealer while they tried to fix it. My advice make sure Ac works before signing papers. Have dealer park it the sun on a hot day and let it run all day.

[bowlesj]

This is my hit list thus far in 1.5 yrs. A check is complete and circle is in work. Never been to a dealer and most likely never will be. Your mileage may very. The biggest down side to the Montana business model is not being able to buy parts direct.


John - 2016 3820fk

◦ Microwave cooling fan click noise

✓ Theater seat cup holder cover cut

◦ Wheel alignment

◦ Left compartment leak

◦ RH front hub cap loose

◦ Rear step light

✓ A/C fan short cycles too often. Not comp.

✓ stripped screws on rear Ac cover

✓ Leak in middle of bed

✓ Scratch on aft side of kitchen slide. When sliding?

✓ Tear in living room flooring

✓ Splitter failed

✓ Loose tile backsplash

✓ Front window leak

◦ Screw stuck at front window

◦ Loose bolt in fwd a/c

◦ Black tank vent pipe

✓ Fridge high temp reset

✓ Clogged HEPVO in shower

✓ Fridge and vent fan on same circuit

✓ Hydraulic leak around left landing gear

✓ In command DC won't connect to BCM

✓ Buffet shade retract too fast

✓ Fwd basement 12v socket wires not connected

✓ RH slide lights dim. Bad 12v power under load. Now both slides off.

◦ AC ducts leak air into attic all locations. All vents taped and trimmed need to check main supply duct.
✓ Crushed return vents. Added 10" 3/4 pvc
◦ Bed caster crushed

[TLightning]

One thing to keep in mind about all these forums, most folks on here are here because they are having a problem. Therefore that's what you read about. What you don't read about are the thousands of RVers who just got back from a long trip and all went fine. They don't come on the forum and say, "just went on a four week, 2,500 mile trip, and everything worked perfectly." However, if they get back and have an issue, it will be on here the next day. Keystone makes and sells lots of Montanas that's why there are so many Montanas on here with problems...there are lots of us on the road.

[DadsHemi]

Only 2 things on mine, the trash drawer I had to rebuilding it so the framing inside stopped falling apart and the Brake issues which Camper world and KeyStone stepped up to the plate. Camper World sent techs to where I have been vacationing in the smokey Mountains.

[RetiredSubVet]

We have a 2018 3791RD. Yes, we had a few issues with ours, but our dealer has worked with Keystone to get them taken care of. This is our first 5er and I also read a lot of the comments and was concerned before I purchased. When we went on our first 2 trips, the temps outside were in the mid 90s, but my wife would sit with a blanket wrapped around her to keep warm. So far, we are very happy with our purchase and wish we had more time to do a few more trips before winter, but my In-laws don't want to travel west in it when we go hunting in Wyoming.