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Old 02-13-2018, 10:08 PM   #1
SirCampsalot
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Does Keystone Read Or Hear Any Of This?

Well we do own SOB and I do know some will call the company "crap" if a light bulb burns out, but does Keystone ever troll this sight especially this topic? We are seriously looking at Montana and may have to reconsider. It would be nice if Keystone and all other manufacturers would gather a focus group of reasonable seasoned owners and really ask the right questions plus do this regularly. Then listen and take it back to the engineering & design team with follow up to the group and look to truely fix some of the major design concerns.

I know you are asking "what th h... is this guy smoking this is Keystone owned by Thor".

We do not need ANOTHER model or a bigger RV we are asking for a better RV at a reasonable price and willing to pay a bit more for quality.

I have a big concern when it deals with safety items and have read some posts of the poor visibilty of the rear taillights and how low they are placed. I have read OWNERS upgrading to LED and implementing their own ideas to make their unit more visible. WOW if you brain surgeons recognize this problem plus fix it why can't some design engineer put down his joy stick (metaphor) and FIX IT so the end user can just enjoy his rig (not a metaphor).

I see this problem industry wide and no end in sight.

Is all this just a exercise in futility and nothing will change? I dont know about you, but I do not feel better just because alot of others are settling for mediocrity and they too are having the same problem. Now it does help when someone here solves that problem, but again I reference the last sentence where I placed .

Sorry if anyone was offended especially if any of you ARE brain surgeons this is just my observation.

Cheers!
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Old 02-14-2018, 04:49 AM   #2
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Quality is an issue in the RV industry these days. Go to RVTravel.com and subscribe to their free newsletters. Two issues near and dear to Chuck Woodbury, the owner, are poor quality of RVs and lack of campsites.

The problem is that the RV manufacturers are pumping out thousands of units every year, and they don't care about the quality, they just make them look good and rack up the profits. With so many units being produced, and very few new campgrounds being built, we are quickly running out of places to park them when away from home.
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:16 AM   #3
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Quality does not seem to be Job 1. As long as folks keep snapping them up off dealer lots, that will continue.
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:42 AM   #4
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It hurts us full timers the most when the typical rv owner is looking to just go camping and snapping up the units as long as it looks good at the time of sale. To them its not a necessity like us who need to full time due to jobs. And unfortunate that were the ones who take the hit the hardest when I have to move my house to the dealer so they can fix it. Were looking at another new unit for full time as this one is 4 years old now and it states in the owners manuals on all the ones we have seen that full time is not covered under the warranty. even though it says it is with a sticker on the unit or web site.
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:52 AM   #5
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Does Keystone here is?
My wife asked the man that owned the hearing aid company. Will Lynwood be able to here me if he gets hearing aids “no he will never be able to hear you”.
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:12 AM   #6
SirCampsalot
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Originally Posted by Eagleback View Post
It hurts us full timers the most when the typical rv owner is looking to just go camping and snapping up the units as long as it looks good at the time of sale. To them its not a necessity like us who need to full time due to jobs. And unfortunate that were the ones who take the hit the hardest when I have to move my house to the dealer so they can fix it. Were looking at another new unit for full time as this one is 4 years old now and it states in the owners manuals on all the ones we have seen that full time is not covered under the warranty. even though it says it is with a sticker on the unit or web site.
X2 why fix something or make it better AS LONG AS THE CONSUMER keeps buying it the way it is? WE are the problem and the frenzy of buying. They have set record after record sales since '09 and until the next economic slow down they just push them out the door to meet demand.

Another reason why the problem falls on deaf ears is the Manufacturer doesnt have to look you in the eyes they have the dealer do their dirty work.

So how does it get fixed or does it? Montana is the largest selling RV for the last 15 years so guess what? They have the largest consumer base so why not form like a PAC (political action committee) RVAC and instead of a rally in Goshen of fun and activities where everyone is drinking the kool aid, go meet with the higher ups possibly get a rep from Thor and ask the hard questions?

Their margins have to be astronomical so its time they produce a product that is reminiscent of the Montana of years gone by. BTW this is industry wide if you read other forums. Same grips and problems and then everyone goes home and noone does anything about it. Is this not what they call INSANITY?

We need consumer advocates that lobby for change in behalf of the end user. There is power in large numbers.

From the movie Network our chant/mantra should be "I'm mad as hell and not going to take it any more". Can you imagine a march to corporate of hundreds of consumers???

Now I am gonna go home and go to bed!
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Old 02-15-2018, 06:57 AM   #7
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I am not sure where the headquarters is located but those who live close could take there rigs there and park them outside there offices. Hopefully someone would come out and ask the question why are you here?
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:45 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirCampsalot View Post
X2 why fix something or make it better AS LONG AS THE CONSUMER keeps buying it the way it is? WE are the problem and the frenzy of buying. They have set record after record sales since '09 and until the next economic slow down they just push them out the door to meet demand.

Another reason why the problem falls on deaf ears is the Manufacturer doesnt have to look you in the eyes they have the dealer do their dirty work.

So how does it get fixed or does it? Montana is the largest selling RV for the last 15 years so guess what? They have the largest consumer base so why not form like a PAC (political action committee) RVAC and instead of a rally in Goshen of fun and activities where everyone is drinking the kool aid, go meet with the higher ups possibly get a rep from Thor and ask the hard questions?

Their margins have to be astronomical so its time they produce a product that is reminiscent of the Montana of years gone by. BTW this is industry wide if you read other forums. Same grips and problems and then everyone goes home and noone does anything about it. Is this not what they call INSANITY?

We need consumer advocates that lobby for change in behalf of the end user. There is power in large numbers.

From the movie Network our chant/mantra should be "I'm mad as hell and not going to take it any more". Can you imagine a march to corporate of hundreds of consumers???

Now I am gonna go home and go to bed!
Hope you feel better after some sleep.

Do not believe the vast majority of us are "mad as hell", I have had generally positive experience with the dealers that have serviced my rigs. Has not been perfect but not "sky is falling" either.
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Old 02-15-2018, 06:43 PM   #9
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This isn't what you want to hear, but over the years we have personally seen Keystone make changes to Montana's based on what the owners have to say. Our best chance to make our feelings heard is during the annual rally in Goshen every year. Changes from what tires come on new rigs to what colors are used to quality of build have been brought up and changes have been made. That said, Keystone has to balance what the customer wants with what we are willing to pay and still make a profit and pay their workers and stockholders. If you really want to see where Montana stands subscribe to the monthly listing of recalls and see how well the competitors are doing and/or what you can expect when you pay a whole lot more money.
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Old 02-15-2018, 07:32 PM   #10
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What DQ Dick said. We have been to every Fall rally in Goshen since 2006 our input is solicited and changes have been made based on that input. We get to see prototypes before the dealers see them and suggested changes have been made before they go into production. Keystone HDQ is in Goshen, INd as well as the service center.There is plenty of room to park RV's there and I doubt if they would notice another one parked there. Hundreds of MOC members have looked the manufacturer in the eye and continue to do so at every fall rally . We have a session at every fall rally to do just that and express our concerns and it can get very interesting. Yes We know for a fact that many of Keystone management look at this forum but they do not post on the forum.
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:43 PM   #11
SirCampsalot
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PLEASE do not take my thoughts or opinions personal. They are my observations over my 40 years of RVing.

I personally feel that a unit that MSRP's on average 85k and lets say 350 sq ft = $243 a sq ft. should be a rock.

I am glad to hear that the Keystone rallies result in changes and improvements from attendees discussions with the rep and that Keystone does listen to their customers. That is the sign of a company that cares which translates into loyal owners.

Cheers!
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Old 02-16-2018, 04:20 AM   #12
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Is this a thing that you would have talked to keystone about at the rally? because, does anyone like the residential french door fridge there currently putting in the montys with no door ice or water. Because we full time my DW and i are looking at a new unit and she wants a side by side with water and ice in the door. Am i the only one that has a DW that wants that because its one thing on our list of must haves or should i say hers, that's pulling us to an SOB. And i know that many have had to bring up the roof staple issue and it still is not addressed and other SOB are using screws in there units roofs so i wonder if how much they do listen.
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Old 02-16-2018, 07:41 AM   #13
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I did not talk to them about that but we did decide not to convert to a residential fridge as we are long timer users. Our information came from this form from folks who have a use the residential fridge
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