Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > MOC Technical Forums > Montana Problems, Problem Solving & Technical Help
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-09-2019, 12:00 PM   #1
Hamlej
Seasoned Camper
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Prescott
Posts: 82
M.O.C. #22749
Grey Tank Leak

Discovered about 30 gallons of grey water from kitchen sink sitting in the belly of the trailer. Removed the coroplast and found a leak at the clamp where it exits into the dump valve. Not sure what to do as the pipe was cut to short before insert into the tank. It needs to be about an inch longer for the clamp to tighten down around the pipe. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	B7093DE0-0CB2-47CC-AAD9-A254368DC317.jpeg
Views:	196
Size:	79.1 KB
ID:	5182  
 
Hamlej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2019, 03:59 AM   #2
Desert Rat
Seasoned Camper
 
Desert Rat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Quartzsite, Arizona
Posts: 97
M.O.C. #24985
You might look into rubber fernco flexble connectors. I have used them to connect 1 1/2" and 2" pieces of pipe together. It's basically a length of a thick rubber tubing together with hose clamps on the ends. I bought mine at Home Depot. clicky
__________________
Kevin in Quartzsite, Arizona....It's an experience!
Desert Rat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2019, 04:30 AM   #3
jeffba
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bastrop
Posts: 2,892
M.O.C. #20753
can you tell if the tank has moved?
__________________
Mocha, one-eyed toothless, hurricane survivor, Pirate dog
2019 20th Anniversary Edition 3701LK
B&W 20K for Ford OEM Puck
2018 Ford F-350 Lariat CCLB PSD DRW KJ5CQH
jeffba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2019, 07:30 AM   #4
Daryles
Montana Master
 
Daryles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Alton
Posts: 2,648
M.O.C. #24086
Maybe glue this (with LOTS of pipe glue) hub-hub repair to the grey tank.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Charlott...00HD/203393300
Then use this 3" pipe coupler to join to the valve.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Fernco-3...9-33/203310955
BTW, while you have the bottom open, can you see what tank heaters you have (pictures?) I am curious what Keystone is using. Also is there any insulation between the coroplast and tanks (4 season?)?
Also, where does the furnace duct that heats the underbelly come out at?
Maybe I should just open mine up to satisfy my curiosity, lol.
__________________
Daryl and Marianne,
2019 3130re 20th Anniversary Edition
2016 F350 Lariat
Daryles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2019, 07:32 AM   #5
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
What desert rat said.
richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2019, 08:55 AM   #6
WeBeFulltime
Montana Master
 
WeBeFulltime's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hixson
Posts: 3,436
M.O.C. #11397
I also agree with Desert Rat.
__________________
2018.5 Montana 3791RD


Full Timers 9/1/2010 through 1/16/2020.
WeBeFulltime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2019, 01:25 PM   #7
Texan
Montana Master
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: new caney
Posts: 1,050
M.O.C. #19873
I have used rubber coupling at Home Depot and it works great. As for as insulation there is a reflector piece on the coroplast that I assume is used as insulation but it is very thin.I don't think there is really any rv that I would consider 4 season. More like 3 season on account as much problem as we all have cooling these monster rv's heating them to me is more difficult unless you use strictly the central heat and that can be very expensive.
Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2019, 08:57 AM   #8
Hamlej
Seasoned Camper
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Prescott
Posts: 82
M.O.C. #22749
I installed the rubber flexible hose and thought the problem was solved then 2 days later we heard a loud bang and discovered the grey water tank fell through bottom of the trailer. We called an RV mobile tech to see if this could be repaired on site. Little did I know or realize that the separation at the inlet was caused by the tank support bracket that was bent causing the tank to shift. Long story short when installed at the factory the tank rests on a stationary cross member at the front and removable cross member at the back of the tank. The tank has a lip all around that rests on these supports. Unfortunately when mine was installed the removable support was placed to far back and just an 1/8 inch of the lip was setting on the supports. As we traveled down the road with waste in the tank it kept bouncing on the very edge of the support causing it to bend downward. It finally got to the point where it allowed the tank to fall through. The mobile tech straightened out the support and reinforced it with angled iron and drilled new holes to mount the support firmly under lips of the tank. Just for my own piece of mind I also had him fabricate and install a bracket across the bottom of the tank.
__________________

Larry and Linda Stetz
2018 3820FK
2019 F350 Lariet DRW 14000# GVWR 6.7 Turbo Diesel
Hamlej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2019, 09:12 AM   #9
Hamlej
Seasoned Camper
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Prescott
Posts: 82
M.O.C. #22749
Here is a few pictures of the bent cross member and it’s repair
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	B140A60B-4C11-4D15-B24B-666AA3EA3246.jpg
Views:	129
Size:	185.9 KB
ID:	5201   Click image for larger version

Name:	845FFDE8-B4A0-401A-947D-7B908F7B15E4.jpg
Views:	101
Size:	166.5 KB
ID:	5202   Click image for larger version

Name:	8652FB76-6590-4AC5-B67C-CD662C54F79C.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	322.1 KB
ID:	5203   Click image for larger version

Name:	B09E27F6-E0B7-4BF1-AC4E-17D1B831F1B0.jpg
Views:	108
Size:	196.6 KB
ID:	5204  
Hamlej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2019, 03:38 PM   #10
Rondo
Site Team
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Omaha
Posts: 6,748
M.O.C. #7560
I had one of our cross members bend also. We straightened it and set it back into place. Fingers crossed, no more problems and that was two years ago. When we had the mobile tech come out for the tank, he was the one that found it. He said the biggest problem is folks fill their tanks to full and this brace is not made for that weigh and it bends. He told me to only fill the tank about half full or so if possible and then dump. It has worked so far and I'll keep up the practice until I hear or see differently. Oh, by the way when we bent the brace back we also reinforced it with another piece of steel bar to make sure it did not bend again also.
Rondo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2019, 04:44 PM   #11
rohrmann
Montana Master
 
rohrmann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 4,672
M.O.C. #12947
After developing a leak in our grey tank several years ago, and was able to repair it with a Plastmend kit, I decided the cause of the leak was due to the bottom of the tank flexing with the weight of water as it filled. I installed two extra braces along with the two that already were installed, I suppose to support the weight of the coroplast, glued varying thicknesses of blocks to the bottom of the grey and black tanks so the braces would contact the blocks after the coroplast was reinstalled and the braces were also reinstalled. Now, the actual weight of the tanks filled with waste is supported by the braces, not the lips of the tanks. I think I've read that the tank manufacturers specify that the lips should not be used alone to support the tanks. We can now dry camp and have the tanks completely full prior to dumping or having a pump out without worrying about having a tank break.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	added supports for tanks.jpg
Views:	119
Size:	95.4 KB
ID:	5210  
__________________
Bob & Becky
2012 3402RL
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC 4WD
rohrmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2019, 04:07 AM   #12
Mikendebbie
Montana Master
 
Mikendebbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Austin
Posts: 2,381
M.O.C. #21044
Rohrman -
Are all 3 of the steel braces removable?
Are the wood supports anchored/ attached to the steel braces?
Two of the boards are red...why are the red? Paint? Or some sort of wrap? And why? Just curious.
__________________
MikenDebbie Aggie ‘77 in the sticks near Austin TX
2019 Chevy 3500 High Country DRW
2018 Montana 3921FB
Aussie Gus + Texas Heeler Jimmy
Mikendebbie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2019, 07:28 AM   #13
Daryles
Montana Master
 
Daryles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Alton
Posts: 2,648
M.O.C. #24086
Ok, how about the black and freshwater tank?
Do they also have the same design defect?
Lack of center support, held on by the edge lips?
__________________
Daryl and Marianne,
2019 3130re 20th Anniversary Edition
2016 F350 Lariat
Daryles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2019, 10:18 AM   #14
rohrmann
Montana Master
 
rohrmann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 4,672
M.O.C. #12947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikendebbie View Post
Rohrman -
Are all 3 of the steel braces removable?
Are the wood supports anchored/ attached to the steel braces?
Two of the boards are red...why are the red? Paint? Or some sort of wrap? And why? Just curious.

Actually, there are four braces, two were the original U-shaped ones and two 1 1/2" angle iron braces I added, so they are about a foot apart from each other. I attached them with the same 1/4 X 1" TEK screws like what was used on the other braces and also used to attach the coroplast. The tanks are sloped at 1/2" per foot, so I just grabbed a couple of 2 X 4's I had laying around to start with, as that spot was at the 1 1/2" space. Not having any other scrap lumber, I ended up buying a sheet of 1/2" foam board and a roll of tape that happened to be red. I cut the board to make a 1/2", 1", and 2" spacers. I then installed the braces and glued the blocks of foam taped together with the red tape to the bottom of the tanks with silicone caulking. After that was set up, I removed the braces, installed the coroplast back on, and then reinstalled the braces. This is a better photo of the braces.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	added supports for tanks 2.jpg
Views:	103
Size:	291.8 KB
ID:	5215  
__________________
Bob & Becky
2012 3402RL
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC 4WD
rohrmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2019, 11:24 AM   #15
rohrmann
Montana Master
 
rohrmann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 4,672
M.O.C. #12947
I have never had to open up to see the galley tank, but yes, I believe that tank is also hung by the lips but seeing as its a smaller tank, and I try to keep it from filling all the way, it has never been a problem yet. The fresh tank is a different material and has straps around it holding it up, and we keep it full always and have never had an issue with it. The waste tanks on ours and most up until a couple years ago, I think, are made of ABS, and the fresh tank is some type of polypropylene I believe, so it's much stronger.
__________________
Bob & Becky
2012 3402RL
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC 4WD
rohrmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2019, 08:34 PM   #16
Texan
Montana Master
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: new caney
Posts: 1,050
M.O.C. #19873
My tank bracing is about the same as yours except not quite as colorful. I had several different thicknesses of boards so I could fill in the gaps snug and screw them all in together and then drill small holes in angle bracing and screw some short screws through brace into the wood. I just made a 4300 mile trip this fall and a 3200 mile trip last year and they seem to work very well. Just installed rods on my gray and black tanks in place of the cables so I hope I am all set for a few years of trouble free tanks.
Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2021, 02:31 PM   #17
hemiallen
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Lodi
Posts: 221
M.O.C. #28242
Quote:
Originally Posted by rohrmann View Post
Actually, there are four braces, two were the original U-shaped ones and two 1 1/2" angle iron braces I added, so they are about a foot apart from each other. I attached them with the same 1/4 X 1" TEK screws like what was used on the other braces and also used to attach the coroplast. The tanks are sloped at 1/2" per foot, so I just grabbed a couple of 2 X 4's I had laying around to start with, as that spot was at the 1 1/2" space. Not having any other scrap lumber, I ended up buying a sheet of 1/2" foam board and a roll of tape that happened to be red. I cut the board to make a 1/2", 1", and 2" spacers. I then installed the braces and glued the blocks of foam taped together with the red tape to the bottom of the tanks with silicone caulking. After that was set up, I removed the braces, installed the coroplast back on, and then reinstalled the braces. This is a better photo of the braces.
Excellent fix images.

Just to make sure I understand, the angle you added needs the support blocks so the brace actually supports the tank? IE the tank doesn't go all the way down against the coroplast? I was thinking of adding crossmembers of 1.5" angle as you did, thinking the tank was against the coroplast, but it looks like I need to add blocks like you did to support the tanks weight. This seems to be a good project to avoid the inevitable from happening.


I had a similar tank dropping issue in my Rockwood kitchen grey tank, but I think it was down against the underlayment they use. The first sign was sink water weeping out of the cabinet, then I noticed the coupling hose was disconnected and found the tank shifted .

Did you cut out a section of the coroplast? It seems like it might be good to get a layout of the tank locations to do this to all the tanks.

Thank you

Allen
__________________
Old rig: 2005 Ram QC 1500 5.7- Rockwood 8288 4- 6v batteries
New rig: 2016 Ram 25004x4 QC LB & 3120rl legacy-solarflex 300w and 400Ah Battleborn
hemiallen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2021, 06:03 PM   #18
Mikendebbie
Montana Master
 
Mikendebbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Austin
Posts: 2,381
M.O.C. #21044
I have been looking at Rohrmann's tank support for a while, and I thought I would draw this section to illustrate what the red things are (taped pieces of foam) and why the support pieces that are between the steel angles and the tank bottom vary in thickness. The tank does not have a flat bottom - it slopes. Hope this helps. Rohrmann will need to answer your other questions.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2021-04-10_18-46-42.jpg
Views:	76
Size:	63.2 KB
ID:	8887  
__________________
MikenDebbie Aggie ‘77 in the sticks near Austin TX
2019 Chevy 3500 High Country DRW
2018 Montana 3921FB
Aussie Gus + Texas Heeler Jimmy
Mikendebbie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2021, 06:20 PM   #19
hemiallen
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Lodi
Posts: 221
M.O.C. #28242
Very nice.

So this is the tank that is long and runs parallel to the outside frame of the trailer.

I was thinking the tank runs perpendicular to the rig, like the bathroom grey and black tanks do. Now the images make more sense.

Thank you Very much

Allen
__________________
Old rig: 2005 Ram QC 1500 5.7- Rockwood 8288 4- 6v batteries
New rig: 2016 Ram 25004x4 QC LB & 3120rl legacy-solarflex 300w and 400Ah Battleborn
hemiallen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.