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Old 07-30-2006, 05:17 AM   #1
TheCoachPotatoes
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Deady Experience /Walmart Parking

Just read this in RV Today
A man was killed last week after forcing his way into a motorhome occupied by a family of 4. This happened in Cedar City Utah. It was about 10PM and their was a scuffle and the husband shot the indruder in the head. They are investigating if this was justified, and were they in fear for their lives? It is believed the man (intruder was intoxicated).

After reading this I'm not sure we will be stopping at any Walmarts any time soon. Although, it happen at 10PM I guess you could have been there just taking a short break and something like this could happen. Everyone, please just be cautious wherever you are.
 
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Old 07-30-2006, 05:44 AM   #2
Glenn and Lorraine
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And that's another reason I don't do Wal*Marts. Yes, this same thing could happen in an RV park but the odds are a whole lot higher at the Wal*Marts and even the truck stops.

On the last leg of our trip down to Georgia, a few weeks ago, I was kind of pushing it and found myself still on the Interstate after dark. As I needed fuel anyway and rather than looking for a CG in the dark I thought I'd take the easy (and cheap) way out and stay at a Flying J. Found one with plenty of room and parked the rig. Went in the restaurant for something to eat after which we retired to our rig for what I was hoping would be a good nights sleep. WRONG!!! I was awake most of the night listening to the comings and goings of the big trucks and other RV's all night. At one point I did go outside and there were about 8 teenagers hanging around two cars. Now I will admit they were pretty much behaving themselves but you just never know. We ate breakfast at 5 AM and were back on the road by 6.
The Flying J thing told me I wouldn't do that again and now the above tells me I will not do a Wally World either. My Monty, my truck, me and especially Lorraine are just worth TOO much to me to be taking the cheap, easy way out.
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Old 07-30-2006, 05:45 AM   #3
lightningjack11
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I think this could happen anywhere at any campsite especially if there are only a few campers.

In Florida you are justified in shooting a person if they have broke into your home but you do have to answer for it. Make sure they are not running away when you shoot because a shoot in the back could be murder or manslaughter.

Also in Florida you can transport a pistol in your car/trailer as long as you you have two distinct steps to make you think about not using it. For example, an empty gun in the locked glove box with the bullets in the trunk.

If Utah laws say this individual cannot transport a weapon then he will at least be charged for that offense. State laws vary.

I am all for taking a firearm with me on trips, especially as I get older.

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Old 07-30-2006, 06:04 AM   #4
TheCoachPotatoes
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One thing Al and I have talked about is the fact that in a fifth wheel or travel trailer, if the threat is outside trying to get in, you can't just drive away. You have to get out and get into your truck, in order to get away! I have to agree with Glenn, I don't think it is really worth it. I think I would be on pins and needles all night and my sleep is also valuable to me! Yes, we have our cell phones and some may have guns. The problem is, things can esculate and personally I couldn't live with myself if I was forced to shoot someone. I really don't think carrying a gun is the answer. I think you have to ask yourself before you put your head on the pillow, "Are we reasonablly safe here?"
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Old 07-30-2006, 07:52 AM   #5
Little Rascal
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The only "weapon" we travel with is our rottweiler/sheppard mix. She looks really scary, and we declare friend or foe before telling folks that she's really a cuddle bug. But not far behind the gun carrying laws, rottweilers are banned from some campgrounds...because of irresponsible owners/handlers. I support self defense whether it be a frying pan, baseball bat or a safely carried weapon held in a responsible hand. Safe travels!
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Old 07-30-2006, 08:04 AM   #6
Ozz
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I just wouldn't have let the drunk in, just think how difficult it would be for someone to push you out of the way when they are standing on the steps. Who would open the door to a stranger? I know they thought he may have been a security person, but you don't even let them in. I would have cold cocked him with a can of Tomatoes, 10 times as heavy as his half can of beer!
All joking aside, it is a dilemma for each travelling family to decide on personal protection, it is a topic that should be discussed in advance, what to do when, and this type of incident can happen anywhere, anytime.
Sue and I have been to Two personal protection courses, one 6 years ago, and last year.
Whether you decide to Conceal Carry is your option, but I feel the course is good insurance, we learned so much.
Don't carry without the proper information and training.
Stay safe. Ozz
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Old 07-30-2006, 08:14 AM   #7
Glenn and Lorraine
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If I were thinking robbery a rottweiler/sheppard would definitely convince me to head on down the road. In fact most any big dog would serve that purpose. But I do have a problem with "a safely carried weapon held in a responsible hand". Sometimes the perk has different ideas about safely carried as he takes the weapon away from you. Now it's no longer in responsible hands. There have been far too many reports of innocent people being killed with their own weapon and now another weapon is on the streets.

Don't get me wrong I AM NOT an advocate of gun control but rather an advocate of not getting an innocent person shot with his/her own weapon.
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Old 07-30-2006, 10:42 AM   #8
simonsrf
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One problem I found with our 5er is that there is no way to see outside the door without opening it. I installed a peephole that is 120 degree field-of-view that allows me to see the bottom of the steps and of course their face. Cheap insurance for less than 10 bucks and 10 minutes of my time.

Robbie
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Old 07-30-2006, 01:20 PM   #9
lightningjack11
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For my old 2850 the window is right by the door and I like that. If anybody is at the door I can easily see them.

As far as guns go I would really hate to shoot someone. Years ago I would have never considered taking a weapon but things were different then. Now druggies will kill you for a buck. You just can't let them enter to rob you. It will cost you your life. This is a personnal decision that each camper has to make. I am sure the campers in that motorhome felt that way. Lets hope the situation does not happen to us.

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Old 07-30-2006, 01:52 PM   #10
Wagonmaster
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A inexpense piece of security we use is a door bell intercom system from radio shack, about $30 to 40. If I ask who is there and there isn't a satisfactory reply than I won't open the door and just take it from there. And yes I carry a weapon in the Monty. Me and Jan both have ccw permits and have had extensive training with firearms. Just my thoughts. Jack and Janet.
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Old 07-30-2006, 03:42 PM   #11
jsmitfl
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I just have to say something here too! They were in Utah, middle of the summer in a Walmart parking area. Their outside door was probably open and all that was there is the sceen door. No one knows how they would really react until the idiot grabs your wife or kid. I'm afraid I'm in the shooters corner. I work in one of the worst crime areas of Fla. and see it everyday. Nuff said
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Old 07-30-2006, 04:09 PM   #12
TheCoachPotatoes
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I think we're all in the shooter's corner, no question there. He was defending his family. I think the real point is just as you said, how easy was it for the intruder to get in? All of the above responses offer very good ideas on how to protect ourselves. We just all need to be aware constantly that not all strangers have good intentions! We need to take proper precautions so that nothing like that ever happens to any of us. If it doesn't feel safe, drive down the road. If it's really late and you're really tired maybe you should consider stopping at a hotel.
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Old 07-31-2006, 01:54 AM   #13
Glenn and Lorraine
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Funny you should say "If it's really late and you're really tired maybe you should consider stopping at a hotel." Rather than the Flying J that was my exact intention it's just that I was too lazy to haul the rig across the street. Next time HoJo here we come.
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Old 07-31-2006, 03:29 AM   #14
Driftwoodgal
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We travel with a hand gun as Bob is in areas that aren't always safe. When he was adjusting losses during Katrina there were several times he was faced with people looting houses. He does have a license to carry and would perfer not to ever use it, but does have the training.

Glen,

Glad to hear that you would pull over to the hotel in the future. When tired the driver of the TV and the Monty could do just as much harm as an intruder.

Sorry leaving the original topic.
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Old 07-31-2006, 04:25 AM   #15
richfaa
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This is from Packing .org for Utah looks like the camper will be OK.Note that in Utah you do not have the "duty to retreat" Of the 31 States I am authorized to carry in Utah is one of them. We have never stayed in a Wallmart parking lot or a Flying J. Or a Rest area or any other place where I feel we may be a target.Of course you may be in harms way anyplace any time. Hence the Concealed carry license. I don't like it, wish it was not necessary. wish we lived in Perfect, USA...We Don't.

76-2-402. Force in defense of person -- Forcible felony defined.
(1) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he or she reasonably believes that force is necessary to defend himself or a third person against such other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, that person is justified in using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury only if he or she reasonably believes that force is necessary to prevent death or serious bodily injury to himself or a third person as a result of the other's imminent use of unlawful force, or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
(2) A person is not justified in using force under the circumstances specified in Subsection (1) if he or she:
(a) initially provokes the use of force against himself with the intent to use force as an excuse to inflict bodily harm upon the assailant;
(b) is attempting to commit, committing, or fleeing after the commission or attempted commission of a felony; or
(c) (i) was the aggressor or was engaged in a combat by agreement, unless he withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to the other person his intent to do so and, notwithstanding, the other person continues or threatens to continue the use of unlawful force; and
(ii) for purposes of Subsection (i) the following do not, by themselves, constitute "combat by agreement":
(A) voluntarily entering into or remaining in an ongoing relationship; or
(B) entering or remaining in a place where one has a legal right to be.
(3) A person does not have a duty to retreat from the force or threatened force described in Subsection (1) in a place where that person has lawfully entered or remained, except as provided in Subsection (2)(c).
(4) For purposes of this section, a forcible felony includes aggravated assault, mayhem, aggravated murder, murder, manslaughter, kidnapping, and aggravated kidnapping, rape, forcible sodomy, rape of a child, object rape, object rape of a child, sexual abuse of a child, aggravated sexual abuse of a child, and aggravated sexual assault as defined in Title 76, Chapter 5, and arson, robbery, and burglary as defined in Title 76, Chapter 6. Any other felony offense which involves the use of force or violence against a person so as to create a substantial danger of death or serious bodily injury also constitutes a forcible felony. Burglary of a vehicle, defined in Section 76-6-204, does not constitute a forcible felony except when the vehicle is occupied at the time unlawful entry is made or attempted.
(5) In determining imminence or reasonableness under Subsection (1), the trier of fact may consider, but is not limited to, any of the following factors:
(a) the nature of the danger;
(b) the immediacy of the danger;
(c) the probability that the unlawful force would result in death or serious bodily injury;
(d) the other's prior violent acts or violent propensities; and
(e) any patterns of abuse or violence in the parties' relationship.

Amended by Chapter 26, 1994 General Session
Download Code Section Zipped WP 6/7/8 76_02022.ZIP 3,271 Bytes


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Old 07-31-2006, 06:17 AM   #16
Merv
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I never felt very safe pulling off in any of the truck stops or parking lots. As was mentioned earlier, in a 5er you have to get out and go to the truck to be able to get away from trouble. And what if someone was to try and break into the tow vehicle? They could take you for a wild ride.
Its not quite the same as pulling over in a motorhome. There you never have to get out and you can just drive away if need be.

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Old 07-31-2006, 07:49 AM   #17
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How about this. A guy living a few miles away on a lake is awakened by someone trying to break into his house. Probably kids or whatever. Unknown.

He opens the door and fires a warning shot. Not necessarily at the inturders. (was he in fear of his life??)

Anyway he gets charged with discharging a weapon into a public way. How they proved this is beyond me. But it happened.
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Old 07-31-2006, 09:08 AM   #18
lightningjack11
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To me firing a warning shot is not acceptable. If you fire in the air the bullet will come back to earth and possible hurt someone.

I would only fire at a definate target. If you fire in the air you should be charged because it may hurt an innocent person.

Common sense is always the key. If an intruder is inside your home you have a right to defend yourself. If he leaves the home and runs away you have no right to run after and kill him. That is a job for the police dept.

There is man on trial in Florida for killing a robber in pursuit. He will probably go to jail for manslaghter.


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Old 07-31-2006, 11:54 AM   #19
Bobcat
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We are located in Katrina Country. We live in our Monty, our house flooded. I have heard of break-ins to trailers and do worry about this. After hard day a work, sometimes sleep heavy. Question - Is there a door alarm available for entrance door?
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Old 07-31-2006, 10:38 PM   #20
Montana Sky
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Well great, I was planning on hitting the Wal*mart or Flying J in Billings, MT for my 1st nights stay on the way to the rally. Then again hitting one of the two in Des Moines, IA for another nites stay. After reading this, I am 2nd guessing myself yet again. Amazing, I was at the local Wal*Mart a week or so ago and found there to be 24 rv's pulled in for the night. Some had slides (and everything else) out, others were all closed up and dark. I guess I better have a plan B for this upcoming trip...


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