Montana Quality

[ratfink11]

I purchased a left over `09 3400RL in September of this year and have been pouring over every thing I can on the internet about them. So far I do not like what I see regarding quality and sturdiness of construction. It seems you need to upgrade several components on the unit just to bring it up to where it can handle the weight they carry. If it is not ugrading suspension parts, its ugrading tires. I crawled under my rig this pm to check out the suspension system and right away the rear carriers for the leaf springs look inadequate and flimsy. Not to mention the dealer service which in the first month of ownership I had a wheel assembly separate from the hub at 38 miles from the dealer after they replaced all rims for cosmstic warranty reasons. I know some people on other forums say "its all part of RVing". I have been RVing for 15 years and can not get over the let down after my wife and I waited the last 5 years to be able to afford a 5er. Sorry for being a downer! I hope I have passed my "iniation" into the fifth wheel community and come spring things look up. I can tell the passion people have on this site for their Montana`s. I hope I can rekindle mine! Thanks.

[jimcol]

ratfink11, There are failures in everything made by man. On forums such as this you get lots of comments about things that have failed because people are looking for suggestions or solutions. We have had our Montana for almost 4 years and have put right at 28,000 miles on it. With the exception of a faulty Mission tire, which caused no damage and was adjusted by tireco, we have been virtually trouble free. I hope your Spring brings nothing but trouble free RV'ing and you enjoy your Montana as much as we have.

[ols1932]

Yes, I know it's hard to handle when all you hear are how good these rigs are, especially when you yourself are having problems. We have had some problems, but nothing that I really got alarmed about. Those things that seemed big were taken care of by the Keystone Service Center even when out of warranty. In one case four years out of warranty, we had a bad slideout problem that they took care of through Beaudry RV in Tucson, AZ. I didn't really have any financial problem because the unit was under extended warranty at the time, but Keystone stepped up and paid the entire $3500 bill.

Orv

[richfaa]

We upgraded our suspension because we use this 3400 very hard and IMO in a manner it was not intended to be used. We did
have the nuts on our U bolts come loose and cause a failure but then again we did not read the manual or do the prescribed maintenance required then found out we were 1K overweight. We had no problems with our mission tires in @10K miles although we did change them out. We report problems here so that others will be aware of them and perhaps learn something and maybe prevent them. It does not mean that you will have them. Quality is poor across the RV industry and that is ..part of Rv'ing. Just my opinion but I believe the suspension is adequate for normal/ average use and believe it or not the Montana quality in a industry where poor quality seems to be the norm.....is better than average.

We do 7 to 10K miles a year and live in this thing 8/9 months of the year. All in all..it has served us well...but not without problems.

[KTManiac]

Well, as for the wheel separation, ....kind of your fault. You drove 28 miles past where you should have done the first of three re-torque sessions. Click Here for Keystone's official .pdf file about wheel torque procedures.


Wheel Re-installation Procedure:
Step 1) Wheel Re-installation

• During wheel re-installation, the lug nut torque must be applied in 3 stages. This will ensure the wheel studs are centered in the wheel holes, and will help the lug nuts maintain proper torque.

1. Start all lug nuts by hand.

2. Stage 1: Set your torque wrench to 20-30 ft/lbs (50-60 ft/lbs for the Cambridge, which uses a 9/16” versus 1/2” inch stud).

3. Begin with the appropriate bolt for your wheel (12 o’clock position for 8 and 6 hole wheels and 2 o’clock position for 5 hole wheels, as illustrated) and apply torque to all lug nuts following the star pattern indicated in Figure H.

4. Stage 2: Increase your torque wrench setting to 55-60 ft/lbs (90 100 ft/lbs for the Cambridge).

5. Begin with the appropriate bolt for your wheel and apply torque to all lug nuts following the star pattern indicated in Figure H.

6. Following stage 2, the wheel can support the weight of the trailer and can be lowered off of the jack stands (Figure J).

7. Stage 3: Increase your torque wrench setting to 110-120 ft/lbs (140-150 ft/lbs for the Cambridge).

8. Begin with the appropriate bolt for your wheel and apply torque to all lug nuts following the star pattern indicated in Figure H.


Step 2) Follow-Up:
Re-torque after 10, 25, and 50 miles

1. After the first 10 miles of your trip, pull your recreation vehicle off the road into a safe work area.

2. Set your torque wrench to 110-120 ft/lbs (140-150 ft/lbs for the Cambridge).

3. Begin with the appropriate bolt for your wheel and apply torque to all lug nuts following the star pattern indicated in Figure H.

4. Reapply torque (at 110-120 ft/lbs or 140-150 ft/lbs for the Cambridge) and repeat steps 1, 2, & 3 again at 25 miles and at 50 miles of your first trip.

5. The follow up process is complete and you should refer to the general lug nut torque maintenance process described in section C “Pre-Trip Maintenance”.



The dealer should have told you to make sure and do this during your trip home after doing a re-installation of wheels, if they didn't, ...bad on them.

But, you should have known to do this procedure without any reminders from them, ...bad on you.

Get a good torque wrench and follow the torque schedule religiously. Any time you take a wheel off for any reason, you must do the 10, 25, 50 mile checks without fail, especially if you have aluminum wheels

Beyond checking lug nut torque at the beginning of any travel day, I check them at rest stops at least once a day when traveling. It only takes a couple of minutes, and it is one less thing to worry about when zipping down the highway at 65 mph with 7.5 tons following right behind you.

[Art-n-Marge]

We mustn't forget that buying something like a trailer is like buying a vehicle and a house at the same time. I have never bought a new home, but everyone I know who has bought new, has had a problem. I do not know ANYONE that didn't have a problem and some of the problems found fell into the "you can't be serious about that" category. The home I own now was relatively new and it had a few nits. Prior to that I had a huge house and even an older home that had things wrong, too. I am just happy that I do not drive my stickhouse from place to place because things will have a better chance of breaking.

The trailers these days have so many features and therefore the odds of a problem somewhere are high.

Fortunately, through the knowledge of the Montana Owners club, I have been able to learn how to better care for my rig. Maintenance is critical but not a preventative. A Monty or any other trailer starts its life with the mood and health of the person putting it together. Like someone above implied each human has a different "doing the best I can" threshold. The best news in the modern world is the influx of warranties - implied or actual but as a customer I must not live with blinders on. I am still responsible with educating myself, staying aware and taking care of what I buy to the best of my ability which is not as good as some others' but I'll do the best I can.

If nothing went wrong, we wouldn't need warranties, but then we wouldn't need policeman, prisons, hospitals, laws, doctors, etc. either. But we can always try to make things better by keeping in touch with our dealers and vendors.

The way to rekindle the passion for the Montana is to use this forum and its membership to stay positive, learn about the trailer and know that much of this information works in many places besides your TV and RV. The more time you spend on positive experiences helps alleviate the more rare (hopefully) negative experiences. If the negative out paces the positive, well, that's how people make adjustments like either making things better or finding something else as a passion.

Good luck with your rig and I hope we can each learn how to enjoy our choice we made with our Montys. I am certainly very happy with mine.

[8.1al]

Shortly after buying our Montana 6 years ago we joined the MOC. I started reading the posts about all the problems people were having with their Montana's and wondered what we had gotten ourselves into. Thankfully someone on the forum pointed out that while all of these were legitimate problems they were in the minority. So yes, some people have had problems with Spring shackles, spring hangers,, frames, holding tanks, the list goes on & on but MOST of the people haven't. These are just things you need to be aware of and watch for.

[ratfink11]

Thanks for the positive response to my "melt down". Even the fact I did not torque my rims properly on the way home! Dealer said" Retorque at 50 miles and then at 100". I have always felt know more about a product then the person who is selling it or reparing it and I let my guard down. Never again! This sight will be a great resource and I will use it often. After I posted my remarks I thought hey, I have ridden motocycles all my life and how often have I had problems or needed to update parts etc..........ALOT! Thanks again and I look forward to contact with other MOC members on this site!

[Tom S.]

There are somethings that every RV owner should do regardless of brand. Unfortunately, you've already experienced the lug nut issue, but there are more. Along with the lug nuts, you should check the U-bolts son the axles. Tire pressures are also critical, so consider in investing in a tire pressure monitoring system. Some newer units have self adjusting brakes, but if yours doesn't it's another 'maintenance' item.

Besides these things, consider adding 'wet bolts' to the suspension system if not already equipped, and surge protection/voltage monitoring to the electrical system.

One word on the tires. Yes, there has been a lot said about the tires on these, but I wonder what the real statistics are. That is, if Keystone made 10,000 units with these tires, how many actually had problems with them? 10% would be 1,000 - a high number to be sure, but it also means 9,000 did not. But if 1,000 people posted their problems, you would get the impression that everyone has had problems, when in fact it isn't true. I am NOT defending the tires or their use, but I wouldn't throw them out either. What I have done is kept a close eye on them. At the slightest indication of an issue, they will get replaced.

[garyka]

I also did the same thing you did,bought my 5'er and planned on hitting the road to retirement.I lucked out on the tires I had Tacoma's on mine.Keystone dropped the ball on the Mission tire situation,they waited for way to many failures before they did anything.It should of been a total recall on all Mission tires like it would of been with the auto industry.Fortunately nobody was killed with these tires separating on the highway.Buyers should be told that if you plan on putting several miles on you're 5'er the shackles are inadequate and you need the wet bolts.I feel these are very important areas that are not taken seriously enough by Keystone.
Apparently the DOT doesn't include RVs on there studies

[ols1932]

Art --
That's one of the main reasons we chose this lifestyle. We were continually fixing the stick house and never could get our heads above water. Yet we never complained to a forum of people about all the problems. It was just part of life. And yes, we did expect better quality out of the construction of our stick house than we got. Terrible quality control. When the wind would blow, the curtains on all the windows would ripple!!So I don't think we have a lot to complain about with our Keystone products.

Orv

[exav8tr]

Ratfink11, I have had my 3400 for three years and fulltime in it. As a fulltimer, I have plenty of spare time on my hands, especially during the winter when we are static. Having "things to do" is actually a plus. Sightseeing can get tiresome and very expensive so the down times are great. A time to get "caught up" on things around the house. We have had tire issues and a leaky shower plus some other nitnoy things that I just consider part of owning a home. I have owned seven stick houses in my time and everyone one of them had problems of some sort. Three of them were new. Although I do miss a garage to store tools and work on things, I am not want for anything else right now.

Several people trade in their rigs when they get a couple of years old and may not see many of the problems that face us. We plan on keeping ours for quite awhile so we try and really keep up on the maintenance. We also had our suspension changed out because we want to protect our investment and hopefully, increase the longevity of the house.

As said earlier, you are only seeing a microcosm of Montana owners and the ones with problems seem to talk about them more often so others may learn and head off certain problems.

Try not to be discouraged and consider minor repairs as the "thrill of camping". Although we have an extended warranty program, we have not had to use it yet. It is one of those that IF we don't use it, we get our money back after seven years. So we fix what we can and IF anything major comes up we will use the warranty. Repairs, even by certified RV techs, are not hard to come by on the road, unless you are boondocking wayyyyy out in the wild. I have found that being polite to service centers goes a long way towards getting work done. Also, If I have a problem while travelling, I try to "call ahead" and make an appointment somewhere. The internet has been a valuable tool to locate repair centers.

I hope you will come to enjoy your Montana as much as we have. The MOC rallys and regional get togethers are a great way to meet others with commonality. We hope to meet you someday on the road. I hope this information has been helpful.

AND By the way "Welcome to the Best Darned Forum on the WWW"!

[Delaine and Lindy]

Jack, I read about your pain everyday on RV forums. And as other have said just about everyday you will hear of problems and some even start ranting and bashing their brand of RV ?? That should never happen, they will for sure have paroblems getting things fixed by their manufactor. We have owned several 5th wheels and haven't had to many issues and if we did we either fixed them or just get rid of the problem. You will have issues with a RV, some have more than others. The materails used has a lot to do with it, some manufactors do use better materails. However most components are the same GE, Domentic, etc. And since your not new to RVing you know things can be done better. RV manufactors are cutting corners as much as possible to keep the price down. In some cases I think it will really have a negative effect on their brand. The same issues year after year doesn't make since. Tires for example they are still using cheap china made tires and the results are the same. Not only that but the tires aren't capable of carring the loads they are carring. A 16,000 lb + trailer with E-rated tires????? All but two of our 5th wheels have had G-Rated tires and we now have H-Rated tires. Yes they do cost a lot more but its cheaper than replacing the wheel well of 5er at a cost of $3,500 and up. As others have said its something to check everyday and if your going to RV you will have to be able to repair thing. Jack as you know most RV forums always praise their brand of 5th wheel and really get defensive if you make a negative comment about their brand. But there is a lot to learn reading different RV forums and the Montana forum is great for getting ideas and information on how to repair thing and or problems they are having. But I also believe that the RV industry is just trying to push to many out the door to fast. I really hope things get better for you and yours. It can be very frustrating when you spend several thousands of hard earned money and are hit with problem from the start. Good Luck... GBY...

[blarkman]

I am sure that the RV hauler stopped at the 50 and whatever recommended miles to retighten the lug nuts to specs??!! I would hope that the selling dealer should be checking those at predelivery. In our case it was about 2500 miles from factory to Yuma

[TLightning]

You need to understand that the main reason we are on these forums is to gain knowledge and expertise from fellow owners so we can fix problems. Nobody comes on here and says, "my furnace works great." What we do hear are problems..."my furnace won't heat." So for every problem furnace, there are thousands that work fine. You have had wheel problems...the vast majority have had no wheel problems.

[et2]

We have had a "great deal" of problems with our's this first year. It has been in service more than we have camped. Dropped it off November 2nd for 13 items to be repaired under warranty. We are still waiting on parts from Montana... they have had it over a month.While at the dealer it was broken into.

I'm not going to go into the details as to the repairs needed as I'll probably hear " there all like that". Just saying ... we've owned four other models and have never had this many issues.We bought the Montana because we heard they are suppose to be one of the better made fivers. My wife want's me to get rid of it.

[richfaa]

We also had what we considered a great deal of problems in the first year. There were times when we felt like junking it but having had 4 other Rv's, working for several dealers and touring several plants we realized the probabilities of getting one any better were slim. After the initial slew of problems we have been relatively problem free and our issues are wear and tear issues. If your problems have impacted you that hard and you have lost confidence in the product you probably should get rid of it and try again with another brand.

[8e3k0]

There were some manufactures that tried institute quality in both product and workmanship but they could not survive in the marketplace and are now history. Okanagan was an example and a company that put out superior quality as we had two of their particular units and not one warranty problem with either one, unbelievable workmanship and yes they were heavier than the so called competitors. The majority of customers are interested in price first, then expect quality to come with that reduced price.

[stiles watson]

et2, I think you should listen to your wife. If the two of you have soured on this unit, you will never be happy or have a good experience in it. If you can't enjoy your RV experience. just dump it and move on.

I had a Chevy car once that I had to rebuild the transmission 3 times (not from abuse). I finally woke up and cut my losses. I had a stick house build and could never get the contractor to complete the issues that were covered by warranty. He just kept lying and not doing as promised. I finally decided that I needed to sue him or kill him or let it go and enjoy the house. Well, we just gave up and enjoyed the house.

I think it is useless to try to defend or make excuses Montana or any other brand. Either people like or dislike their unit. I get angry when I have issues and feel satisfaction when I get them solved.

We have lived in this 340 RLQ for over 2 years. We continue to enjoy the lifestyle and look forward to traveling again when this interim assignment is finished. We have had some problems and been disappointed, but we addressed them and are basically happy with the unit.

[et2]

My wife was the one that wanted the new trailer. I'm not ready to loose or just throw more money away.She's probably tired of hearing me complain and repair things while vacationing. So I will try to change my ways. Hopefully things get worked out soon. I just spoke with the dealer today... three more weeks for additional parts. I drove out and picked it up today to bring home. No sense in letting someone try to break into it again. I will have to bring it back after the holidays ... in the snow.

I really like the layout in the 3665RE.For the most part everything that has failed is a purchased and installed item. The stuff they install on these trailers is garbage. Yes ... I know ... all manufactures buy from the same suppliers. When are the manufactures going to hold there suppliers accountable. It really is sad.