Frame Problem???

[bw2]

As there have been a number of folks experiencing this frame flex issue, would it be useful to look at the hitch and pin combination?

I have a morryde pin with a Pullrite slider hitch.
At this time I do NOT have an issue, but I keep watching

[Jim Jarvis]

Mine is in the shop right now for this problem. Keystone has diagnosed the problem as frame flex and indicated the cure to the dealer. Currently waiting for parts. Keystone told my dealer they would "help" with cost but the dealer thinks Keystone will pay for the repair. Mine is 4 years old and Keystone has been very good I would say.

[richfaa]

The frame flex issue was a specific issue in the early years up to mid 2005..I think. The issue was resolved by adding some gussets to the front end of the frame. I remember taking pictures of the fix at the factory in I think 2006. We did later have what appeared to be separation at the front cap in that when the camper was off the truck there was about 1/2 inch separation at the seam along the bottom of the front cap. When hooked up it went back to normal. It turned out to be actually the sidewall had come loose due to screws coming loose. That was corrected at the service center two years ago.
I am no expert but it seems to me that there just has to be some "flex" in the front cap area. I can not see a completly rigid frame. My pin weight is 2900 lbs and bouncing down the road it seems there has got to be some flex.????

[ols1932]

I'm no expert either but when I had the front end of ours repaired, they said their has to be 1/4" flex.

Orv

[Johnnyg]

My dealer got around to inspecting our unit yesterday. I drove there with camera in hand expecting to see broken welds or some visible damage in the area where the pin box attaches to the frame but there was nothing!
The service manager contacted someone at the factory and was offered some guidance what to check.
1. We looked for visible cracks at the welded joints.
2. We checked the painted surfaces for and peeling or spider webbing.
3. We checked all other visible supports behind the main beams up front.
4. They said deflection of the pin box could be anywhere from 1 to 2 inches. WOW!! The way we checked it was placing a 12 ton floor jack directly beneath the pin box and lifting the trailer until the weight was off the front jacks. We did it several times and came up with an average of 1 1/16" at the front edge of the pin box. This seems to explain the floor movement. It appears when the constructed the closet wall they didn’t allow for this movement they know exist. The service manager is going to put a warranty claim in for the damaged wood panel.
5. We looked at all the supports to see if any were bent.
The only thing that I felt uncomfortable about was the condition of curved box beam that's located directly behind the bottom edge of the front cap. This is the forward most main support on the frame which measures approx 2"x6" and extends across the front of the trailer.
On the inside of the curve at both sides of the pin box mounting brackets the 6” side of the beam was concaved in as much as 13/16"! It just seems like a lot but appears as though it was constructed that way. If anyone has the opportunity to inspect there unit I’d be interested in knowing what you see. Pictures were sent to Keystone of all the above.
We closed the panel up and I took the trailer home.
I feel better having the opportunity to see the frame and document its condition. I’ll have to keep a close eye on it.
I posted some pics in my link to photos.

[GaryM]

They removed the cap and fiberglass from the under side of the fifth wheel and we noticed that the front main curved beam was deflected up about an inch with all the weight on the pin. The weight was taken off the pin and a come-a-long was hooked to the back of a forklift to pull out the deflection. Then the welder stitch welded together the two beams behind the pin box. It looks very straight now. We will see when we hook it back to the truck how it performs. Also they installed a double angle bracket inside the propane compartments to the side beam and outside wall. This was also plug welded to the beam and screwed to the side wall. It prevents the side walls from moving. We will see how that goes. Other than that there is yet allot of other repairs to do here. It may be a week or two to get the parts for the other repairs.

Our curved beam was the same as yours. They called over Lippert and a welder from next door here in Pendleton and Lippert did the welding.

I have put together a video of some pictures I took, take a look.
http://tinypic.com/r/33ylwki/7

This is a 65 MB Video, so if you are on limited internet you way want to wait for free internet to view it.

Gary

[Clemson1881]

I have never heard of anything close to that. Talk about a lemon. Good luck with your repairs.

[scductman]

I have cked my 06 a couple of times and it will drop 1/4" when I hook it up Don't know about on the road but I have not had any problems yet.[knock on wood].
Bobby

[jackel1959]

Gary,
Thanks for the update and the video. Now I guess it is time to see what Keystone and Lippert are going to do about this problem for the rest of us. I guess it is time to start with the phone calls again.

Keep us posted on how the rest of your repairs go. OBTW, where are you staying while they are doing all of this work???

Jack

[ols1932]

There's no way that 1 1/16 inch vertical flex should be normal. If it were me, I'd take the rig to someone who builds chassis' and have them take a look at it. Continued use with this much flex is going to get you in trouble. The Truck Builders who repaired our rig told us about a Hitchhiker that had flex similar to yours that completely gave way traveling I-890 near Iowa City, IA. They couldn't even tow the rig off the Interstate until some of the weld was repaired. Yo don't want that to happen.

Orv

[GaryM]

Jack we are living on the streets, no just kidding in a hotel.

I think the type of movement we have is specific to the drop frame style only, not 100% sure as I have not seen how other Montana frames are manufactured.

quote:Originally posted by jackel1959

Gary,
Thanks for the update and the video. Now I guess it is time to see what Keystone and Lippert are going to do about this problem for the rest of us. I guess it is time to start with the phone calls again.

Keep us posted on how the rest of your repairs go. OBTW, where are you staying while they are doing all of this work???

Jack

[Johnnyg]

quote:Originally posted by ols1932

There's no way that 1 1/16 inch vertical flex should be normal. If it were me, I'd take the rig to someone who builds chassis' and have them take a look at it. Continued use with this much flex is going to get you in trouble. The Truck Builders who repaired our rig told us about a Hitchhiker that had flex similar to yours that completely gave way traveling I-890 near Iowa City, IA. They couldn't even tow the rig off the Interstate until some of the weld was repaired. Yo don't want that to happen.

Orv

Orv, I'm in contact with Keystone this morning to confirm what the service manager was told to look for and what dimensions are considered normal.
Thanks

[jackel1959]

Johnnyg,
I am interested in what Keystone tells you. I have fired off an e-mail to them this morning and am awaiting a reply.

r,
Jack

[GaryM]

I just took a picture of the gap between the beam and cap and now the gap is around 1/4" to 3/8". big difference from 1". We will pick up the RV around two and go set up in a CG and wait for the parts to come in. I will also be able to see how much better it pulls.

Gary

[navybanker]

GaryM
Looked at your video and hope our new '11 3400RL doesn't end up like that! Good luck with the repairs. At the end of the video noticed you need to replace your table. My wife thinks ours is splitting. I don't think you can place a quarter in the crack as yet. But, there is one developing I'm afraid. Is Keystone replacing yours? I realize you have bigger concerns at the moment but that quarter in the crack caught my eye! We are taking the 3400 in to the dealer in two weeks for other problems for its first visit back to the dealer and the table is on our punch list.

[Johnnyg]

quote:Originally posted by jackel1959

Johnnyg,
I am interested in what Keystone tells you. I have fired off an e-mail to them this morning and am awaiting a reply.

r,
Jack

No word back today. I can only assume they must be busy!

[jackel1959]

When I got home this afternoon I had a message on my answering machine from Keystone. I can only assume it was in response to the e-mail I sent. By the time I got the message though, they had shut down for the day. Tomorrow is another day.....we will see what happens.

Jack

[GaryM]

That is a picture of our original table. It has since been replaced. But now the replacement is cracked and they have a new one on order for us. It is the Hickory, it drys out and cracks. Some of the joints on our cabinet doors appear to show signs of cracking. There not comming apart and I think they will be fine for awhile.

quote:Originally posted by navybanker

GaryM
Looked at your video and hope our new '11 3400RL doesn't end up like that! Good luck with the repairs. At the end of the video noticed you need to replace your table. My wife thinks ours is splitting. I don't think you can place a quarter in the crack as yet. But, there is one developing I'm afraid. Is Keystone replacing yours? I realize you have bigger concerns at the moment but that quarter in the crack caught my eye! We are taking the 3400 in to the dealer in two weeks for other problems for its first visit back to the dealer and the table is on our punch list.

[GaryM]

Pulling the RV a short drive from the factory in Pendleton to the campground felt allot better. There was allot less movement (maybe 1/4") and it felt like there was a fifth wheel behind me. When I drove over a bump (it was not a very big bump) in the road you could feel the weight of the RV on the truck. The weight was being absorbed by the truck springs like it should. I don't know how to describe the movement before but it was like it bounced.
Judy was told by one of the tech's that the two beams behind the pin are welded together on top. They welded them together here on the bottom.
It appears to me that the pin section of the frame is built separate from the main frame. The pin section in my opinion is very well built and so is the frame but, I feel when they join the two there just is not enough support. They should run the two center beams (which are along side the plates that the pin box bolts to) straight back to a main beam somewhere under the front storage compartment.

Later,
Gary

[jackel1959]

Gary,
Just thought I would let you know I have been talking with Keystone in Elkhart this morning and they are in the process of setting me up with an appointment in Pendleton to address our frame/interior wall issue. Thanks for your postings and detailed information on this subject. I sincerely hope that anyone else having this issue is able to reach a satisfactory conclusion.

Jack