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Old 10-27-2006, 02:29 PM   #21
Steve and Brenda
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Mrs. CountryGuy

I am getting good at ducking! HA HA HA My flame/heat retartdant suit gets heavy sometimes tho!
Yep, and asbestos skivvies itch!!!

Seriously, I switched from the gooseneck to the 5th wheel because of Lippert's comments when I called their engineering staff. I see their point of a gooseneck acting like a lever adding additional strain to the pinbox and attaching frame. I want this RV to last over 10 years so I'm being proactive and removing fatigue risk factors.

Sure, Lippert could beef up the frame but then weight comes into play where light-duty trucks would hit their weight limit sooner, etc.
 
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Old 10-27-2006, 02:47 PM   #22
Mrs. CountryGuy
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Oh, Steve

Ya gonna get the weight police all excited again!

Seriously, I agree, Keystone and Lippert could make it so solid with beefed up construction, but, could we pull em??

Structure, same as everything else that goes into one of these babies has trade offs. No perfect trailer, no perfect tow vehicle, all that stuff. Jeff Rank used to tell a great story about no perfect trailer, and how we could get one, but could not afford the transportation fees back from heaven! He told it with detail and flair, and it was soooooooooo funny!

And, as they told us at the Fall Rally, "we are a new company, we have made mistakes and we are learning." Then something of a plea, "please work with us".

Anywhooooooo, go forth and enjoy your Montana, and I'll go cool off the smoke!
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Old 10-27-2006, 04:53 PM   #23
8.1al
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All one has to do is look at the gooseneck on a trailer built that way. Look at all that bracing running all the way up from top to bottom. There's so much you can't miss it. Now look at a fifth wheel that's been converted to a gooseneck. Where's all the bracing,not there is it? Need I say more?
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Old 11-02-2006, 02:09 PM   #24
panhandlevern
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When I see a hundred or more horse trailer units run through town ever week, with living space in front and horse stalls in the back all pulled on a goose neck, I wonder does the trailer builders know more than Lippert in how to build a trailer? Nowe these horse units may have 8 to 10 thousand pounds of weight just in the horses, plus the living space. They ore all pulled by a goose neck, and I can't see a huge difference in the overall spec's to cause such a squeal by Lippert on the use of a goose neck. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't know what.

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Old 11-02-2006, 02:41 PM   #25
Montana Sky
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Can also take that the other direction, semi trailers weighing 40,000 - 60,000 lbs are pulled around on the same style of kingpin as our Montana's. Still amazes me that little pin can support that much weight. =) Just food for thought...
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Old 11-02-2006, 02:48 PM   #26
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Montana,

Great point!

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Old 11-02-2006, 02:51 PM   #27
Mrs. CountryGuy
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pandhandlevern

Just guessing here, but a horse trailer is made to haul the weight and made to haul it WITH a gooseneck.

Lippert and Keystone, did not design our Montanas to be hauled WITH a gooseneck.

Part of this probably comes from intended design and expected use.

When out on the road, we see very few goosenecks hauling 5th wheels. Small percentage. So, expected use would NOT be with a gooseneck.

If they thought that, say, 85 % of us were needing/wanting/using a gooseneck, they probably would design the trailer with that in mind. It would be beefed up in the areas that would require same so as to protect the frame.

I just don't see that in the travels that Al and I make, we just don't see that many people hauling living quarters around with the gooseneck.

Maybe you see a lot of gooseneck's hauling around 5ers, and that surely would influence the way you look at the situation.

I just don't think Keystone expects a large number of people to want to use the gooseneck, so do not design for it. Expected use.

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Old 11-02-2006, 03:27 PM   #28
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In my six years of full timing, traveling east coast to west coast and southern border to northern border every year, I have seen only ONE 5th wheel RV with a gooseneck. But I've seen numerous horse trailers with goose necks. Those people hauling horses use their trucks for other payloads therefore they want the truck empty so they can.

Orv
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Old 11-03-2006, 12:33 AM   #29
noneck
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I for one (who has the goose-neck in the bed) prefer the standard 5th wheel hitch which I also have installed in the same bed. I can easily back up to it while monitoring alignment to the Monty king pin and would be hard pressed to do the same one shot connect for a goose-neck setup. I have a full width toolbox that is flush with bed rails so no-way to have a clear view to bottom of bed. MHO
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Old 11-03-2006, 01:29 AM   #30
LonnieB
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Same here noneck. I have both, and have been pulling goosenecks since before I had a drivers license. I have no trouble hooking up either one, but I do prefer the king pin hitch.
Carol made a good point. The gooseneck trailers, whether for equipment or livestock, are designed and engineered for much greater strength in the neck area. The steel, or aluminum in some cases, is much thicker, wider, and HEAVIER, than what is required for a camper trailer. Sure, they could design a 5er with a much stronger neck, and frame, but the added weight would constitute a larger tow vehicle.
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Old 11-03-2006, 02:16 AM   #31
panhandlevern
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Perhaps, it would add a little weight to the trailer, but I can't believe ti would add that much, say a couple hundred pounds. Out here in horse and ranch country, a lot of people uses a goose neck. When we spend 30 or 40 some thousand on a trailer, it seems a little cheap for Lippert to not make them so we could use however is the most useful to us. Several of my freinds pull with a goose neck, and I did for quite a while with no problems. So I'm not to carried away by the scare story's of Lippert.
Build them to last.
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Old 11-03-2006, 02:43 AM   #32
Mrs. CountryGuy
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panhandlevern

Keystone designs the frames.

Lippert builds to Keystone specs.

Keystone builds for the masses, not a target specific market.

Keystone, like most of the other RV builders do not build for a gooseneck, I don't see Travelsupreme, or any of the really expensive 5ers building for a gooseneck, it just is not their market.

I would bet you could find someone to custom build you a unit, with your specs that you could haul with your gooseneck and be happy as a pig in mud. Have you thought of investigating that route??

200 more pounds added to one of these monster rigs would put many of us out of range for weight, etc. There is much heated discussion already here at MOC about weights and which trucks can stand the pin weight and successfully haul our monster 5ers around. My understanding is that Keystone's market is for short bed 250/2500 type truck owners, longtimers also are their market. If you add 200 more pounds, you take away that much on our payload, and for us longtimers that can be critical.

We make our choices, we take our chances, all of us. If you choose the gooseneck, go forth and enjoy and accept any consequences. It is that way with so much in life.

It is quite obvious from the tone of your posts that you are not going to change your mind, no matter what any of us say, but we have to respect a man for taking a stand and sticking to it! We pay homage to that kind of "stick to it-ness"!

Enjoy your Montana no matter what you use to tote it down the hard road!
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Old 11-03-2006, 04:51 AM   #33
richfaa
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Lipperts warranty on RV frames http://www.lci1.com/Service%20Warran...%20Chassis.pdf
I think if you go to the main site and search around you may find that they do build frames that will support the goosneck...The trailers I have seen that sre goose neck are beefed up considerable in the front area. We have some folks in our local campimg group that have horses and their goosneck trailer is certainly different that my 3400. But again..folks have pulled fifth wheels around with a goose neck hitch, Pull overweight do all sorts of scarry things for years..without a problem.
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Old 11-03-2006, 08:17 AM   #34
The_McCullochs
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A factor in the heavier bracing of a GooseNeck hitch (v. a FW hitch) is that a GN trailer will, generally, place far more weight on the hitch than an RV FW will - the percentage of hitch-to-total-weight ratio is closer to an OTR trailer.

This enables the loading of heavier weight - as payload - on the GN trailer and, in addition, provides the tow vehicle with greater traction off-road.
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Old 11-05-2006, 02:58 AM   #35
Steve and Brenda
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quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Lipperts warranty on RV frames http://www.lci1.com/Service%20Warran...%20Chassis.pdf
The trailers I have seen that [a]re goose neck are beefed up considerable in the front area.
Which seems to illustrate that Lippert knows that when using a gooseneck, structural reinforcement is required and the stock pinbox and attaching frame does not meet that standard.

I'm the new kid on the block this being my first 5er and had a gooseneck ball installed in my new Silverado but when I called Lippert directly they advised me that their welds at key structural points - which are hidden within the frame structure and are inconvenient to inspect - may crack and eventually fail while using a gooseneck, I switched from gooseneck to 5th wheel then and there.

Simply put, we don't risk our recreational vechicles by using incorrect load range tires or using smaller wiring in our projects, why do we continue to question the manufacturer's requirements here?
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Old 11-06-2006, 12:27 PM   #36
lasater
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Steve and Brenda,

I also have a B&W Turnover Ball installed. I ordered the 5th Wheel Companion (which is rated fkor 18,000 lbs) and installed it using the turnover ball receiver. It looks great, was easy to put in, and is easy to take out. Now I can pull my Montana, a gooseneck trailer, and a travel trailer (just not at the same time.)

I think you will like the companion hitch.

Oh, by the way, I just traded for a F-350, 6.0L, dually. I will update my signature later.

Welcome to the forum.
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Old 11-06-2006, 01:34 PM   #37
Steve and Brenda
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quote:Originally posted by lasater

Steve and Brenda,

I also have a B&W Turnover Ball installed. I ordered the 5th Wheel Companion (which is rated for 18,000 lbs) and installed it using the turnover ball receiver. It looks great, was easy to put in, and is easy to take out. Now I can pull my Montana, a gooseneck trailer, and a travel trailer (just not at the same time.)

I think you will like the companion hitch.
I've pulled several times in the 4 weeks since switching from TT to 5er and love the ease of hooking up to the Montana!!!

Chevk out the Companion installation - http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2419360/1
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