Luck of the draw-Problems with all makes

[CORattler]

Proof that other manufacturers aren't immune to problems with the rigs they produce...
This is directly from a post on a SOB forum concerning a 2014 top of the line model. I have edited to avoid finger pointing. I didn't make any of this up. Some issues may even look familiar to you.
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Repairs in 9 months on our NEW 2014 XXXXXXXX

Vacuum cleaner replaced
Fireplace replaced
Kitchen drains leaking
Bathroom drains leaking
Sofa to close to wall and cut holes in wall
Fiberglass sidewall cracked (4ft section cut out)
Fiberglass sidewall cracked second time same place
Awning pulled loose from track on side
Microwave caught on fire when off (replaced)
6 point hydraulic system leaking
TV cable shorting out in ceiling (can not fix)
Hydraulic system popping after setup several days
Bedroom slide out won't go in (gearbox and motor replaced)
Water pump under furnace hose, had to be moved
TV antenna cable sets up one foot above A/C ( cut )
Converter under furnace hoses, had to be moved
TV goes down in cabinet, door broke off (replaced)
Complete window installed incorrect from factory ( replaced)
Outside shower hose won't come out, hangs on pipes
Front decal peeling, needs replaced
Sawdust and installation falls out of a/c vents
Cabinet door in bathroom fell off
Shower door handles fell off
Got three more months of warranty
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[Trailer Trash 2]

That's real sad isn't it. must be non union workers, pot heads, or unhappy workers.
I have been fortunate I have had only minimal problems which were taken care of by my dealer or me. but I don't full time either which will test your RV to the max.
I have found that the really big problem is getting your parts from Keystone or Lippert along with the distributor. they use the pass the buck theory, then you wait for your parts forever.

[WeBeFulltime]

quote:Originally posted by Trailer Trash 2

That's real sad isn't it. must be non union workers, pot heads, or unhappy workers.
I have been fortunate I have had only minimal problems which were taken care of by my dealer or me. but I don't full time either which will test your RV to the max.
I have found that the really big problem is getting your parts from Keystone or Lippert along with the distributor. they use the pass the buck theory, then you wait for your parts forever.

You have a problem with non-union workers?

[1retired06]

Really bad luck! That is a lemon!

[Phil P]

If it is truly one of the top of the line 5th wheels then it having only 3 months left on warranty makes it 21 months old.

Our Montana had a lot of those problems when it was only 21 days old.

A big difference!

Phil P

[richfaa]

It is true all Rv Manufacturers in the Elkhart area run Non Union shops. In fact there are few union shops in the Elkhart area. Don't see what that has to do with quality. The responsibility to build a quality product is with the manufacturer.

[DQDick]

I don't care who is making them, if your producing 15-20 units a day as complicated as our rigs are, your not going to get them 100% right.

[Trailer Trash 2]

quote:Originally posted by DQDick

I don't care who is making them, if your producing 15-20 units a day as complicated as our rigs are, your not going to get them 100% right.

X2

[JandC]

I can understand when RV's are manufactured they are going to miss some things on a small percentage. I don't have a problem with that. Just like building a house, the highest quality custom builder will still turn out a residence that may need some repairs or adjustments in that first year or so. What I have a problem with is dealer support for that product. The list that Jay posted for the SOB is pretty extensive. If the SOB dealer is a really good one and fixes those issues immediately then most buyers can deal with that. Problem is in a lot of cases the buyer gets very little support from dealers who are only interested in making the original sale and not backing up the product they are selling.

[bigskyjimmy]

That's funny!!! the UAW was turning out real stellar high quality auto's for many years out of Detroit......NOT then the Japanese started kicking our butts in Quality THEN the union boys got their act together or they were about to lose their jobs...Union ,Non Union like Rich said it is the COMPANIES responsibility to hire good workers and put good quality control in place

[richfaa]

Our MOC group at the Mid Atlantic rally had a lively discussion with Mike Mack about the dealer service issue.

We have had great service in or out of warranty with our dealer Town and Country Rv In Clyde Ohio over the last 8 years. We also had to used a Dealer in Michigan and one in Quartzsite for repairs on the road and received great service.

[Trailer Trash 2]

Keystone and other SOB are all in it together, and that is SALES SALES SALES. if a dealer is high in sales the rest can fall into place when they feel like it. some dealers just don't seem to give a hoot about warrantee work, so long as sales are high, along with the manufactures they seem to give the same impression,.....sometimes but will backup the dealer in a heart beat because they are selling lots of their product. I have complained to keystone about my dealer and they said that they have received many complaints about them, has anything been done ? nope still the same service. garbage in and garbage out. needed is better quality control and factory Reps that stand behind what they tell you at the rallies.

[Flymutt]

It's my opinion that the RV manufacturers are so busy right now that I don't doubt there are problems. Any time an industry takes off as fast as ours in such a short time period, there's gotta be problems. Just can't hire and train fast enough. Kinda like that Lucy Ball episode where she's boxing chocolates and they speed up the line.

[davidaf]

Not that it's a good excuse to put out poor products but I'm sure these manufacturers have a very solid recollection of the economic downturn that shuttered numerous manufacturers. Keeping the coin purse closed and cutting costs whenever possible for fear of another collapse is what I'd be thinking about if I were in upper mgmt. Acceptable losses to justify cost savings. Maybe in a few years as the market recovers further and competition increases they'll be willing to shell out a few more $s and tighten their quality control. If they don't the consumer may just get smart and take their business elsewhere, if somebody actually steps up and makes a quality product at a decent price (yes there are a couple today but not many and certainly not enough to shift the demand curve). Or maybe not, bling sells really well. I'm sure we can all think of a few retail stores that sell poor quality merchandise but their stores are always full of people.

[richfaa]

The up front cost to implement and train all concerned in quality control is huge. Quality must be the culture of a organization and that is expensive. It does pay off down the road in increased sales but none of the manufacturers are willing to take that first step. While one organization is spending large amounts of money to implement quality into the organization the other companies will eat them alive. I have been involved in such efforts and it can take two years or more just to get the process implemented in a organization. The ongoing cost are also huge. It has to be a industry wide effort. As mentioned above our auto industry was brought to its knees by Japanese quality processes before it was forced to respond with their own.

I do not see that occurring in our Rv industry. Perhaps one day a Japanese company will get into the USA Rv market with their work standards and quality processes and cause a change in the industry.

[CORattler]

I cannot rationalize away poor craftsmanship and substandard quality. In my book, lack of pride in what you produce = laziness & a lackluster work ethic.
If management uses the " bottom line " as an excuse for instructing employees to cut corners, they are heading down the road to ruin.

[richfaa]

quote:Originally posted by CORattler

I cannot rationalize away poor craftsmanship and substandard quality. In my book, lack of pride in what you produce = laziness & a lackluster work ethic.
If management uses the " bottom line " as an excuse for instructing employees to cut corners, they are heading down the road to ruin.

That is what "the culture of the organization' is about
management is responsible for organizational culture and that culture is lacking in the RV industry. The Employee is putting out the quality management supports. The Employee must be part of the organizational culture and the RV industry does not support that.

They are putting out a acceptable product and one that sells not a quality product.

[Phil P]

Hi

We have found 3 companies that are using a good quality control system. They are all high end builders their MRSP starts about $5,000 above the highest MRSP Keystone has.

This results in a 2 year warranty cap to cap and 5 years on the structure.

In order to provide this warranty they have to build a reliable trailer.

Everything in their production of a trailer is document and built by a production manual and any deviation from the manual results in a record of the change that stays with the trailer.

Phil P

[bshgto]

Tell us who are the 3. 2 years out from a new camper. I would be willing to pay 5 thousand more for a camper that the frame dosen`t crack or the pin box dosen`t tear out or the slides don`t leak and rot the floor or front cap dosen`t fade in the first 6 months or microwave cathes fire or have a whole host of loose wire connectors that seem like ghosts live in the camper with us. sorry for the rant. LOL we still like our High Counrty though, ok I`m done

[bncinwv]

quote:Originally posted by bshgto

Tell us who are the 3. 2 years out from a new camper. I would be willing to pay 5 thousand more for a camper that the frame dosen`t crack or the pin box dosen`t tear out or the slides don`t leak and rot the floor or front cap dosen`t fade in the first 6 months or microwave cathes fire or have a whole host of loose wire connectors that seem like ghosts live in the camper with us. sorry for the rant. LOL we still like our High Counrty though, ok I`m done

We are on our third Montana and all of them did not have a frame crack, did not have a pinbox tear out, slides did not leak on any of them (have slide toppers though) cap did not fade (did have peeling emblems on 2007 model) and we have never had a microwave catch fire. We did fond one loose connector on the hot water heater that shorted, and I have always tightened the connections at the fuse panel/breaker box when first purchased. Sorry, I just cannot find anything to rant about unless I go way back to the Mission Tires!! LOL!
Bingo