Factory Warranty - No Go - Montana Owners Club

JandC · 01-26-2015, 03:40 AM

I am going to have to take back everything positive I have said about Keystone Customer Service.

Backstory: two major issues, furnace still not working correctly and more staples coming up on roof. Lazy Days said this morning if I wanted to bring fiver back in they would take more photos and re-submit. I told them I wasn't interested in pulling fiver 3 hours each way for them to take pics that I could take myself.

Called Customer Service at Keystone. Couldn't get in touch with Jamie Salazar, so I just spoke with another kid. Furnace has been looked at by 2 Montana dealers, neither one of which can seem to fix it. His suggestion, take it back to another dealer, but if they can't find anything wrong or it doesn't malfunction when they check it I will be charged instead of Keystone. Now that's a good customer service attitude!

They will not pay to have roof fixed just because some staples are pushing up. So my question "so I just wait another month or so until water starts pouring in through the ceiling and then call back". He assured me that the membrane is so tuff that staples will not come through in 9 out of 10 cases, and actually most of the time expansion and contraction causes them to go back down. Wow, I may have been born yesterday but I sure wasn't born an hour ago. I did hold my tongue and confirmed with him that if my roof decided to be the 1 in 10 that did leak, then in a year or two would Keystone replace it. He said they would.

I am done with the idiots at Keystone Customer Service! Thanks goodness I purchased an extended warranty, which goes into effect later this week.

Ozz · 01-26-2015, 03:52 AM

Very frustrating for you, sorry that is the case. What was your furnace doing? also, did you try pushing the staples back in with a pc of wood, or plastic? I imagine they will have to cut a spot out, deal with the staple, then patch it. I would rather try pushing it down myself. Sometimes the cure for a problem can be worse than the original problem: the patch.

DarMar · 01-26-2015, 03:56 AM

That is not good. When a customer has a problem such as your furnace it needs to be taken at face value and addressed, never on your dime. Just hope you do have better luck with your extended warranty.

As far as the roof and staples which seem to be a common problem now: Hey Keystone could we get those assurances in writing???

bncinwv · 01-26-2015, 04:05 AM

As a suggestion, have you tried contacting the furnace manufacturer? It is ultimately their warranty that Keystone is using anyway? Just a thought. I am with Ozz on the staples, I would fix myself by removing the offending staples, replace with a good wood screw and place a small strip of eternabond tape over the repaired area. Might not be the right thing to do, but at least you would know the repair is a good one.
Bingo

davidaf · 01-26-2015, 04:35 AM

Unfortunately it sounds like standard customer service now days. Would be nice if we the consumer didn't have to yell and fight to get things done. If I couldn't fix it myself, i'd wait until the factory warranty expired. Call a mobile tech and have it done under extended. That way I could supervise the job and not be w/o the rig in for 3 months. I was happy to see my standard warranty expire and thankfully I never had to try and use it.

richfaa · 01-26-2015, 04:36 AM

Which is why we buy extended warranties . We have never had a problem with Keystone repairing or replacing anything within the one year keystone warranty and have had other things like Micro wave, Fridge, replaced under the vendor warranty. We have used the extended warranty on both out Montana's many times

Our out of pocket expense for Extended warranty deductibles has been around 500.00 over 8 years .The warranties have paid out thousands.

I will say this and it is just My Opinion but the service and attitude at the Service center has changed over the last couple of years.

dieselguy · 01-26-2015, 06:09 AM

I talked at length with a customer service rep working for SOB at the recent RV show. This person recently "retired" from Keystone because of changes in the way business is done now. This person has come out of "retirement" and is working same job different company. JandC ... I'd not throw in the towel yet ... another Keystone rep may very well overturn the previous ruling ... I am with Rich though ... something subtley is changing at our most favorite RV manufacturer ... Keystone.

8.1al · 01-26-2015, 07:58 AM

Over the years Keystone's customer service seems to have gone from good to bad, back to good, etc. Back when we were still under warranty I didn't even bother with them concerning stove, furnace, and so on, I went right to the manufacturer. They don't care what brand your local dealer carries.

Samiterry · 01-26-2015, 10:49 AM

The one thing I've learned while in the process of getting a bent axle replaced is, the RV industry is much different than the auto industry as it pertains to warranty work. For example, if you drive a GM truck with a diesel, and you have problem with the transmission, you don't take it to Allison, you take it the GM dealer. In the RV industry, If you have a problem with, say, an axle, you waste your time with either the dealer or Keystone. You have to contact Dexter, where thankfully, they take care of all the cost of replacing the axle and the prorationed tire !

cdaniels · 01-26-2015, 11:05 AM

Or if u can go to the fall rally in Goshen. They bend over backwards to make things right IMO. Whenever we call customer Service even to ask a question we've never talked to anyone with any knowledge. We went round and round when our TV lift broke just to try to get a part number. It was chaos since the lift was no longer available and they had no clue how to cross reference it. The insurance co was the one who called Keystone and got some kind of answer. It was like 2009 your on yur own. I only wanted a part number cross referenced.

Virginia Young · 01-26-2015, 12:59 PM

cdaniels - We didn't have any luck at the Fall Rally on our new Big Sky. They told us our issues could be taken care of at a dealer. It's spent 3 1/2 weeks total, at two different dealers and both have told us they can't fix our main issue. It's a "wiring problem," but Keystone wants us to take it to another dealer. We talked to a rep at the Tampa RV Show and he said he would get us taken care of. It's been a week since we last talked to him and sent a detailed e-mail and we still haven't heard back. We are still banging our heads against the wall, trying to deal with Keystone Customer Service. It's really upsetting because we love our Big Sky, but we won't keep anything that gives us problems. I'm afraid my husband will move on to a different fiver . . . They may all be just as bad, but why would we stay with a company that we know for a fact doesn't stand behind their product? There is always a chance that the next one will.

cdaniels · 01-26-2015, 02:13 PM

Oh wow, we went to our 1 and only fall rally 2 yrs ago and they fixed everything we had issues with and ours was a 2009 out of warranty. We didn't expect that kind of service. As well as all our friends rvs out of warranty. It's sad to hear your issues. Keystone needs to improve obviously. Good luck!

Ozz · 01-26-2015, 02:17 PM

I think the key thing is connecting with the right person (optimistically) I would think that would be possible, a few years back there was a customer rep that followed through with us.
Who knows someone there now, that could be contacted on these issues?

Phil P · 01-26-2015, 10:46 PM

Hi

If Keystone had any concern for the consumer the dealer we purchased our trailer from would not be a dealer for Keystone today, they are still using farm tractor mechanics that know nothing about quality workmanship. They still take months to do a PDI and then the persons doing it with the new owner don’t know anything about the workings of the unit. The most knowledgeable person we did business with was the salesman (who left shortly after we purchased) at least he knew how to make the TV go up and down and could figure out the incorrect wiring so it would work.

Once the finance company or the new owner pays for the unit you are on your own.

Phil P

JandC · 01-27-2015, 02:32 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Ozz

Very frustrating for you, sorry that is the case. What was your furnace doing? also, did you try pushing the staples back in with a pc of wood, or plastic? I imagine they will have to cut a spot out, deal with the staple, then patch it. I would rather try pushing it down myself. Sometimes the cure for a problem can be worse than the original problem: the patch.

The furnace will cycle and work good for a few days, sometimes maybe a week, and then we go through a period of time where it will not ignite. When we hit those malfunction times this is what it does. Turn it on and blower starts, about a minute later after ignition failure it shuts off. I do the master reset, and usually when I turn it back on it will ignite. Sometimes I have to do the reset twice to get it to ignite. Mobile tech looked at it this fall and immediately found that igniter prongs were spaced too far apart. He spaced it correctly and the furnace worked for maybe a month, then started doing exact same thing. Usually when it reaches the set temperature it will shut off like it is suppose to, then after about 2 minutes the blower will come back on (with no heat) and run for a minute, then shut off again, which also seems like a malfunction to me. It has never mattered if my propane bottles are full, half full, or which side is being drawn from.

I will try to find a mobile tech to work on it in the next couple of weeks. I hope I can avoid multiple visits thus paying multiple deductibles on my extended warranty.

Any ideas Ozz on what the possible problem could be?

Also, I have pushed the staples back down a couple of times. Now that I know there will be no action taken for an immediate repair I will be pushing them down again. I don't mind getting up on my roof every couple of weeks for an inspection anyway, so I guess I will just keep pushing them down for now. But they are there to serve a purpose, and that purpose is probably to hold the sheeting onto the roof rafters, so no matter what they will be getting replaced with screws at some point in time.

JandC · 01-27-2015, 02:43 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Ozz

I think the key thing is connecting with the right person (optimistically) I would think that would be possible, a few years back there was a customer rep that followed through with us.
Who knows someone there now, that could be contacted on these issues?

That is a good point Ozz. After I got frustrated and had the mobile tech out to look at the furnace last fall a Keystone rep told me they would only cover the labor part of the repair and not the $90 service call charge. A newer rep took over my account prior to them paying up (Jamie Salazar). He called and his attitude was totally different. He was very professional and actually treated me like a valued customer! The others I have talked to up there have acted like they were doing you a favor. Anyhow Salazar listened to my story and said they would make an exception and pay the entire bill, including the service call charge.

I have been trying to talk to Salazar again and he hadn't been returning my voice mail messages, that is why when I called the other day I just decided to talk to one of the other idiots. Maybe since Salazar is not a new guy anymore they have gotten him "trained" and he is thinking like a real Keystone Customer Rep now.

Ozz · 01-27-2015, 03:03 AM

I work with parts suppliers and factory reps with my HVAC and Electrical business, I always take them something, beef jerky, candy, sometimes I send an ice cream vendor out to a warehouse. Sue and I have sent flowers to the office workers where we do a lot of business. Do you think I get lousy service and a bad attitude from them? Not on your life.
Sometimes it pays to grease the wheels when you want great service. people that supply services and parts get so much bad attitude it turns them a bit bitter, everyone wants something, and many times they don't know what diplomacy is. Often, I ask how can I make this the easiest for you, when trying to get something done.
If Salizar is the key, find out who his.. or her supervisor is and email them with a praise of Salizar's work. I bet you get good response then. It works.
If I had the staple problem as you described, I would get a large syringe and needle, fill it with some epoxy and inject it right next to the staple, then the staple would stay in. Think outside the box on the repair, then just dab roofing repair caulking on the tiny hole.
The furnace problem sounds like a flame sensor, possibly dirty. Loose wires and bad contact on wires will do the same thing. A long shot would be a bad board.
If you can get to the flame sensor, clean it with a green scotch-brite pad, or use fine emery paper. I have cleaned about 50 of them this winter, usually that is my first check and usually that is the problem. The flame sensor is a stainless rod, or pin that tells the circuit board that the flame hits it, is proving a ground, and it is safe to leave the gas valve open. Now, this is on residential and commercial heating, but the same principal is involved in Rv furnaces.
Take care and good luck.

richfaa · 01-27-2015, 03:06 AM

There has been a huge turnover in service reps in the last couple of years and IMO a change in the quality of service.we have not had a problem but reading the post here over the last couple of years we see a change. Ozz has got it right.

JandC · 02-02-2015, 06:30 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by dieselguy

I talked at length with a customer service rep working for SOB at the recent RV show. This person recently "retired" from Keystone because of changes in the way business is done now. This person has come out of "retirement" and is working same job different company. JandC ... I'd not throw in the towel yet ... another Keystone rep may very well overturn the previous ruling ... I am with Rich though ... something subtley is changing at our most favorite RV manufacturer ... Keystone.

Fired off an e-mail to Jamie Salazar (Keystone Customer Relations) today. Going to take dieselguy's advise and give another rep a chance to honor a simple warranty issue. I mean really, when you think about these staple issues there couldn't be a more perfect example of what a factory RV warranty should cover. These staples coming up is a direct design/workmanship reflection on Keystone, it has nothing to do with them buying Norcolds and putting them in their units, or buying Atwood furnaces and installing them, this is a workmanship building issue that has failed. I guess I just feel really taken advantage of that they are refusing to honor the warranty for such a "black and white" issue.

We will see what happens. Maybe a trip up the Keystone food chain would help after this, but I doubt it.

Irlpguy · 02-02-2015, 11:16 AM

JandC if I may I would like to make a couple of suggestions, you stated in your original post that Keystone customer service when asked if there was a future problem with the staples/roof in a year or two would they replace it, their response was affirmative. I would ask that question of any rep I spoke to and ask for it to be confirmed in writing.

The fact the staples are coming loose indicates to me those protruding staples did not hit the solid target they were intended to hold into. I have used staples in a lot of fastening and have not had that problem, in fact they are extremely difficult to remove if they are into solid material beyond what they are fastening. This is of course yet another problem with shoddy workmanship and quality control and cannot be blamed on anyone other than Keystone.

As to the furnace, one would hope the mobile tech checked all possible causes of it's problem. The control circuit board is the brains that makes it all work and provides the safety features of the furnace. When the board receives a call for heat from the thermostat certain actions commence, a) the fan comes on to clear the combustion chamber, b) spark is initiated and the propane supply solonoid opens to allow propane to pass. At the same time an electronic timer on the board starts and if a signal from the flame sensor is not received in the predetermined time period the propane solonoid closes so that no more propane enters the furnace and after another timed delay the fan will stop.

For the furnace to operate properly the above things have to happen, if any "one" of them fails the furnace will not operate, and that from a safety point is as it should be. If I were a betting man I would bet the problem is the control board. A bad component, a poor solder joint on the board will cause intermittent operation.

Since no one has mentioned the propane solonoid here, I would ensure it is in fact opening, if not, that can be caused from a bad solonoid or because it did not receive a signal from the board to open. If it does open "and" you can hear the clicking from the spark, then the last thing is the flame sensor. The flame sensor is the safety feature in conjunction with the timer on the board to shut off the propane when there is no ignition. One more "unlikely" thing, if at some point during this process the control board stops receiving the "call for heat" from the thermostat your furnace of course will not come on, it is possible to have an issue with the electrical contact at the control board or the thermostat.

I realize this does not help with the issues with Keystone and warranty, I am only trying to help you solve one issue yourself or by using a mobile tech. Been there done that with Keystone and their not so much customer service.

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