Chips VS Warranty

[lasater]

I am sure that there are several stories/opinions out there concerning warranties and aftermarket chips. Well, let me tell you mine.

Last week I pulled my brother-in-law's 30 foot travel trailer from Lake Havesu City, Arizona, to Eureka, California. That is just a little over 950 miles. When I bought my truck (2nd hand) it had the Edge Juice w/Attitude installed. I thought, "Wow! Look at this!" Lots of choices, lots of power, and the Attitude give some neat numbers of EGT and boost pressure.

All went well until I was about 100 miles from Eureka. I noticed black smoke when I normally would not see any. The black smoke continued until I was about 88 miles from Eureka. Then it suddenly changed to white smoke along with a marked reduction in power. I pulled over, shut everything down, and called AAA. They came, towed me and the trailer to Fortuna, CA. The TV went to Fortuna Ford (of course this was Friday afternoon and the place was closed until Monday).

On Monday, I went to the shop to see what the situation was. Not good. I burned an injector, blew a hole through the #8 piston, and scattered molten aluminum throughout the engine. The Service Manager saw the Edge and promptly said, "NO WARRANTY". Then he gave me a repair estimate of just over $15,000.

The rest of the day went downhill from that. They did offer me $12,000 on the rest of the truck if I traded it in to them. Ain't gonna do that. This coming week I will borrow a truck from a friend, rent a trailer and haul the beast from Eureka back to Needles, CA (where I bought it). The service manager there is expecting it. We will see what happens from there.

Bottom line---trucks are engineered to death before they are put on the market. Be wary of any after-market add-ons. They just may cost you a lot more than they save. I did find out that in a repair of this size a regional service representative has to inspect the vehicle himself. I don't think that was done in CA since the question of warranty was thrown out by the Service Manager. Maybe, I get the Edge removed before the next Service Manager gets it. He already knows that it existed prior to Ford selling me the truck. Maybe he can do some magic but I fully expect that there will be no repairs done since I will not pay $15,000 for a new engine in a 3-year old truck.

Live and learn. See yall down the road.

[Steve and Brenda]

I don't understand why a new motor runs $15k when a brand new powerstroke on eBay is only $8500 and a reman is listed for $5000.

[Hemlockusa]

There figuring LABOR ALSO...

[bigmurf]

Just curious what settings were you using on the Edge? What were the EGT running?

[SlickWillie]

Man, that's a tough pill to swallow. I have been hesitant to add a programmer to my GMC because of warranty concerns. I would have no problem with my dealer, but like your case, what if you're on the road when something goes wrong. Hope it all works out.

[richfaa]

Very educational post.For a warranty issue of that magnitude the dealer must go to Ford for authorization and payment. The dealer does not provide the Warranty, Ford does. Ford knows we use after market devices just as Lippert knows we hang hitchs on the frame of our campers..We provide them with the justification to void the warranty..This should be a lesson learned ..

[Bob Pasternak]

Lasater: I really don't think taking the chip off before you go to the dealer will eliminate the "footprint" the chip has already made in the computer. It is my guess the only way you'll eliminate that is with a new ECM. Just my .02 worth.

[ken]

The question was asked what setting have you been using. The damage may have already been done by the previous owner. We have the edge chip and attitude gage. It says to use only setting #1 for heavy towing. #2 for light towing, #3,4,5 is for power. But it also says not to use 4 &5 unless you modify your enging and trans. I only use the #1 setting for towing the Montana and switch back to #0 running around town or taking it into the shop. The shops can tell by the onboard chip in the truck what settings you have been using. The EGT gage (part of the chip) is the most important item you can get. If your turbo runs hot over 1300 degrees constantly, your will burn it up and also damage the engine. We had a chip in our F-350 and had no problems. I have one in this 2500 and have had it in the shop for other items and GM has said nothing so far.

[richfaa]

I care not one way or the other on after market chips, etc.My personal choice. I will go with the manufacturers Warranty at least while it is in Warranty.It is doubtful that the dealer or the manufacturer will say anything about having a chip installed except maybe a warning.The final word will be when you bring in the broken motor for a high priced Warranty repair.

[Bruce Lenhardt]

I agree with Rich. It is a personal choice. I see no reason to take a chance with the warranty. The question one might ask is, do I gain enough or need the additional HP to take a chance. In my case-No.

[skypilot]

Have to agree with Bruce and Rich -- it has gotten even worse around here -- I want an EGT guage badly but local Dodge dealer has said in no uncertain terms that if I install one -- forget about any warranty work on engine or exhaust system. Asked the question to Dodge dealer in Topeka; and called Wichita dealer to see if local was being obstinate -- both others told me not to put anything on that even makes it appear that I may be pushing more HP through the engine. All three said 5Star (Chrysler corporate? for warranty approval) has them looking for things like velcro in the engine compartment, EGTs, extra wiring, etc., to show any indication that a chip, or some other performance enhancing item was added (and then removed); and then they do not honor any repairs on those components under warranty. Local dealer very honest and upfront with me -- said I could put one in; if something broke later I could argue the point and try to get Chrysler to cover -- may take court action; (of course who has deeper pockets, even with Diamlyer trying to stop the Chrysler hemmorage they still have deeper pockets than I ). Bottom line; if you can afford to be your own warranty payee, then play to your hearts content. Otherwise, Dodge (and Ford) are pretty much requiring that we keep our vehicles stock.

[Steve and Brenda]

quote:Originally posted by Hemlockusa

There figuring LABOR ALSO...

Thats a large amount of labor hours, even at $70.00 per hour, it'd equal almost 100 hours labor!!!

[pud2]

Makes me wonder want setting you were on. If you were on more than #2 then you were dumping too much fuel into it and it was to rich and that was causing high temps. in cylinder and that was probably what burt the piston.

[madeforeachother]

I learned way back in 1995 from a Dodge service manager "never add any after market performance adhancement devices to a vehicle while it was still under warranty", period! I had just purchased a '95 Viper and was talking to the service manager when he showed me a sister Viper in the shop with a blown engine. He then opened the trunk and pointed out some hidden fuel lines attached to nothing. They were lines that were hooked up to a nitrous bottle that was removed before the car was brought into the shop. The owner was so positive that the mechanics would not pick it up. It completely voided his warranty on the whole car and that repair bill was to have cost $30,000 with labor included in 1995. The car manufacturers go to great lengths testing their products and although some are flawed from the start, you can not give them an inch to tell you that your on your own with an expensive repair. I now have an '03 Dodge 2500 4 wheel drive with 114,000 miles on it that I bought new and always being told by other owners to beef it up with a chip. It's off warranty but it works fine and as the saying goes, "if it is not broken, leave it alone".

[Delaine and Lindy]

We have only owned GM Trucks and we use Duramax/Allison for our TV and we haven't ever had a need to chip or use any other device to enhance our horsepower. The Duramax puts out plenty of Tork and power. And I have used the Cummins in class 8 trucks Pete's and Freightliners and I know they put out plenty of power to the rear wheels. So I question why the need for a Chip. I like to make the Duramax do its job and if I chipped it out I would probably blow the engine. As most everyone knows the in-line 6 is used on most Class 8 trucks, and many people wonder why they don't use the big V-8's one reason is weight and cost. And its much cheaper to do a in-frame rebuild and easier than the V-8's. Oh well beware when using the chips. And remember the GM trucks have a black box under the seat, so they will know if you chip your TV. GBY....

[lasater]

I had the Edge set on #2 (towing). I had the max EGT set for 1250 which meant that the engine began to defuel between 1175 and 1225. Max boost pressure was set at 30 PSIG. I think that what really went wrong is that I used cruise control while in Tow/Haul. There is a tech bulletin from Ford that says this is a No-No. Under cruise control, the engine just kept pulling instead of backing down.

So, now I am hearing that the carcass is worth about $12,000. By the way, the labor rates in northern CA are $89 per hour. In Needles, it is $99 per hour. I can still remember days when it was $70 or even $50...but no more.

We are now shopping for a 2008, F-350, 6.4L, Lariet, CC, long bed, dually, etc, etc, etc.

My wife has already told me that I "failed retirement". I gotta go back to work just so I can play. There is something wrong with that picture.

Bottom line for ME---We will get another NEW truck configured the way we want it. There will be NO after-market mods done to the power train. I will put in my aux tank/tool box, nav system, and my B&W Turn-Over Ball Hitch,; but, that is all. Somewhere down the line, I may put in Firestone Air-Bags (maybe).

[Cat320]

If you want some in depth information on warranties...google Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. It is the federal warranty law.

[Native Tex]

I had a chip on my last Ford but decided to NOT put one on the current model for several reasons, one being just this very issue. I may put a larger exhaust or a cold air intake but nothing to the extent of changes to the ECM. My experience has been good with a new chip, but all that gained horsepower and torque comes with a cost....fuel consumption. I never really gained in so call better economy.

[lasater]

The latest...The dealership that sold me the truck actually bought it from a Chevy dealer after a trade-in there. They did routing service and then put the truck on the lot for re-sale. When I got there, I had to ask the salesman (Used Car Salesman???) what the Edge Attitude Monitor was. I thought I was looking at some kind of satalite radio reeiver. The salesman explained what the Edge is and then sold me an extended warranty on the truck.

The latest from this dealer is that they are going to attempt to repair the truck under warranty. Of course, that means that Ford pays for it, not the dealer. Because of the circumstances of the sale, the service manager seems to think he can talk Ford into covering the repair. We will keep you informed as things develope. Our law firm feels that if warranty repair is refused, we have a good case for recovery by suit.

We do know that California law requires that when repairs are not authorized by the owner (for whatever reason) the dealer has to return the vehicle to the same condition as when it was brought into the dealership. In other words, the dealer in northern CA made a boo-boo when he put the engine in the bed of the truck rather than reinstalling it. We may recover some of that $1105.

[sreigle]

Wow, Lasater, I'm sure sorry to hear of this problem. Even if you find a rebuilt engine somewhere it won't be cheap. And, trading it unrepaired will cost you as well.

I know the new 2008 Fords record the settings used in memory that supposedly cannot be touched by a chip. Can't be cleared, in other words. I'd bet the other mfrs have the same or will before long.

Extra power is always nice but for me it's just not worth the risk. If my truck doesn't have enough power to do the job I'll get another truck. And run it stock. But I know others like to have that extra power and to them it is worth the risk. To each his own.

I don't understand the part about not using cruise with tow/haul. I don't recall anywhere in the manual for our 2003 F350 or 2005 F250, both the 6.0L, where it said not to use cruise with tow/haul. If I recall, it even said it's ok. I can see that if it's holding speed and egt is getting into the 1300 range one should kick off the cruise but from my experience if I'm on a hill that steep it's going to shut off the cruise anyhow. Maybe I'm wrong but that's what I remember about the manuals on this topic.