Frame Problems with 06 Montana

[hazmic]

As you can see on my profile that we have the TS3 and I would NEVER have any hitch other then a air hitch. Yes they are pricey but watching the 5ver behind in the mirror it just glides along. The hitch takes the pounding out of the camper. Also as I have stated before the roads are not getting any better and now the bridges are going to pot also.

[Countryfolks]

My TrailAir gives the same impression.

[rickfox]

I have emailed the photos to Lippert and discussed the problem with them. All agree that the wall support plates had failed and that welds had broken. The Lippert customer service person mentioned he had not seen this type of failure before. One could speculate that the 1/8" plate material used to support the side walls to the frame was of insufficient thickness, or that the plates might have been more agresseively welded to the frame, or that the forces of the road on our 6500 mile trip were excessive.

I guess we will never know. The fix is to either weld an additional 1/8" thick plate over the current plates, or to remove the current plates and re-install thicker 1/4" plates. I think I prefer the later.

Actual metal material cost should be less than $50. Including dissassembly (2 1/2 hrs) removal and rewelding of the plates and improving other welds (4 hrs) and reassembly (4 hrs) the total time is expected to be about 10 to 12 hours of my time, and probably another $50 or so for caulking and rubber taping etc.

Then I will still have to rebuild the wardrobe area, which will take another 4 or so hours and probably another $25 in wood materials etc.

Oh well, I don't think I have any other choices. Such is life.

[Desert RVer]

Wow,

I'm overwhelmed with what to look for on our 2006 3400RL. Could someone give me a quick tutorial on what to look for and where to look? Really don't need more problems.

[8.1al]

The Lippert customer service rep said he had never seen this before?????? Did he just start yesterday???? That's a ridiculous statement. There are a number of members that have had that happen, that's why I stated above that may be the problem. With this in mind I would think either Lippert or Keystone would give you some help with this.

[HamRad]

Rick,
There are a number of members who have had some sort of problem with the front/pinbox area of the rig. Your description of the problem you are having is the first one I've heard. Most of the problems have been with the sides separating from the floor and moving up when the rig is connected to the tow vehicle. That is what happened to me. I noticed that the bathroom vanity was about an inch from the floor of the trailer when connected. It was flush with the floor and everything was fine when loaded on the landing legs.

Perhaps I'm not understanding you but it sounds like you are saying that the floor is pushing up walls causing them to buckle. That would be first time I've heard this.

Keystone / Lippert corrected the problem and all has been well since the fix. It is a scary situation that is for sure. They apparently simply did not do a good welding job and or it is not engineered strongly enough. Either way I would think Keystone / Lippert should make good on the fix. I know that a number of us have had to have that area repaired.

I'd sure keep trying to get them to fix it at their cost. But since you are a qualified welder I know what you mean about fixing it yourself so you know it is safe and the way it should be. Sometimes it is simply better to do it yourself and not have to worry.

Good luck. By the way some pics of the problem would be nice.

Dennis

[rickfox]

Hamrad
The outside trailer walls are connected to and supported by metal brackets and flanges that are welded to the frame. In the front portion of the trailer the outside walls set down on these brackets/flanges. Screws are then run up through these brackets and into the bottom aluminum frame of the walls. When these brackets/flanges break away from the frame, and when the trailer weight is transferred from the landing gear and placed upon the hitch, the front portion of the trailer frame flexes in the upward direction. Under normal circumstances the walls help support the hitch weight providing additional strength and the amount of flex is reduced.

If the sides break away from the frame they no longer provide that additional strength. The result is that the frame is allowed to flex upward more when the frontal weight of the trailer is supported by the hitch. Since the side walls are no longer connected to the frame in the overhang area, these walls remain unmoved when the weight is transferred to the hitch. The result is the floor inside the bedroom wardrobe area actually flexs upward with respect to the side walls. It all depends on your point of reference. Things that are mounted to outside walls may appear to be moving downward with respect to the floor. Things that are mounted to the floor will appear to move upward with respect to the outside walls. No matter how you look at it, when you are running down the road, the bedroom floor is supported by the frame floor which is supported by the hitch. However, since the side walls are no longer supported by the frame, they tend to droop, One result is that the distance between the bedroom floor and the ceiling directly above is reduced. Since there is a small single sided wall in the bedroom wardrobe area that separates the hanging area from the drawer area, this wall gets crushed.

It is this small inside wall I was refering to, not the outside walls. Interestingly, the damage was apparent from inside, and you could actually see walls and floors moving with repect to each other while the trailer was lowered off the landing gear onto the hitch. However, when checking things from the outside, there was no apparent sign of anything wrong - not until you removed some of the outside coverings and could look directly at the frame components.

Hope this explanation helps.

[noneck]

Right...been there

[HamRad]

Rick,
Thanks for the additional information. There is a major difference between what is happening with your rig and the problem I had with mine. You could see the problem on mine from the outside. The right front corner started showing some separation. I used to have some pictures but don't know where they are right now.

Good luck.

Dennis

[PSFORD99]

Rick, I would like to add some advice ,you may know these things, and if not they will help you with the job at hand. Sounds like you are going to use a wire feeder ( solid wire with a gas shield ? ) I am not fimilar with all types of wires without doing some research, but most of our welding is flat and horizontal. I buy weld wire made to weld just flat and horizontal. Matter of fact most of my welders do not like an all position wire. I can tell you from experience the reason they don't is because its a change. With that said ,from what I am reading from you, you are going to have some vertical up or even some overhead ?? Welding vertical down is not good, you really need to weld vertical up to get good penetration. Overhead I find no harder than flat other then some hot sparks down the back of your neck, which as you know can create a funny looking dance. Just make sure you have an all position wire. Another thing about rewelding, is too many times ,and all you are going to have is junk. I know I am probably saying things you already know, but if not it will help you with the job. Make sure all your weld are clean no grease ,paint, dirt, etc. Good luck to you , and if you have any questions please let me know.


It is too bad you are not closer, I could shear you up some gussets, plates, whatever to beef it up. Some custom stuff that would make the job easier.

[rickfox]

Noneck,

Great angle on the photo! Exactly the same problem I am having!!! What did you do to get it fixed?

In my situation, the same welds that broke on your trailer also broke on mine (on both the passenger and driver side) causing the passenger side wall to droop about 1" when hitched, and the driver side wall the droop about 1/2"

The construction and material seems also to be the same on my 06 model. One change appears to have been made. It appears the 1/8" plate that has dropped in your photo may have been welded down only one side lengthwise. On mine this plate was additionally welded on the upper side where the side walls rest. Although these upper welds did not break, the metal plate actually broke away from the welds, suggesting that the 1/8" thick plate is not sturdy enough.

Passenger Side Front Corner


Right Side 6" Back from Corner


I have totally removed these plates and will reweld 1/4" plates in their place. My welds will also be much better. Interestingly, I removed one of the plates by grabbing it with channel lock pliers and a cresent wrench and began bending it back and forth. After some effort, one-by-one, all the remaining welds broke loose. Clearly they were all cold welds with little or no penetration.

I will be reporting back to Lippert with my repaired photos. I have heard some say that the factory repaired their damage. But if the repair is no better than the original work, I am glad I decided to do it myself. I'll probably have 10-15 hrs. of my time and about $75 in materials in it including the wood repair inside.

I trust my work.

[ARJ]

I love the responses of these guys at the factories. "I have never seen that before" or "You are the only one that has happened to"

The propane pipe on my TT was being worn through by the spring shackle and after repairing it I wrote the factory to express my concern that they had never notified any other owners about the problem and the response was " You are the only one that as had the problem ". Yeah-right

[Tom S.]

Rick:

Maybe you should go into business - sounds like you could get plenty of customers!

Oh, wait - that's the only one Lippert has heard about.

[noneck]

So...I'm not a welder and did the following as I was not covered under any warranty;

[richfaa]

Lippert will be here at the fall rally. I will let them read these post.

[Desert RVer]

I think I've read on here that Lippert has been shown a few other problem areas at the Fall Rally w/o any kind of response.

[richfaa]

Lippert has , to this point, responded to my issues. I may have a fame problem. They said they will look at it this week. The head of Lippert is usually here. We will see what the response is.

[Desert RVer]

I've been trying to figure out if there is something specific and consistent relative to 06 3400RL frame failures but I must be missing the clues. Where do I look for problems?

[Allen in MT]

Looking at my bedroom closet in the 05 3400 I see the problem of the wall buckeling back and forth also, so I guess I have a structural failure also.
Will do a closer inspection as time permits.

Maybe I missed it in an earlier post but is there a main number or person to call at Lippert to voice a concern.
Allen

[rickfox]

I called service and warranty at Lippert Components. The phone number is 1-866-LCI-SVC1 (1-866-524-7821). They reviewed the photos that I sent them via. email and agreed that I should add additional metal and reweld, or remove the broken metal and reweld new thicker metal.

I chose the latter, removed the broken material and added new metal plates that were twice the thickness. I will post photos tomorrow, which I will also sent to Lippert.

I have had another competent welder look at the work that had originally been done on the frame. He agreed that the work was of very poor quality! The material may have been too thin (a Keystone problem as Lippert said the frame specs came from them) but he the poor quality of the welds certainly came from Lippert!!!