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Old 10-30-2004, 04:06 PM   #21
Montana_2194
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Karl

I'll reply with a comment I made in another thread.

I for one am glad this thread came up. After having had 6 travel trailers over the years, and now our Montana 5th wheeler, I have had some experience with RV's. The first two travel trailers were used units, so all of the bugs had been resolved (of course those were back in the 1970's when there were no such things as slideouts and all the other mechanicals that are present now. Our 4 Prowlers were all new, and the first two never had to go back to the dealer for warranty issues. The 5th one was totalled along with our suburban the first trip out when the chain for the torsion leveler/stabilizer broke and caused us to spin out and roll over, so we never had a chance to find out about any issues. Or last Prowler had a few warranty issues, primarily fit an finish items that were quickly taken care of by the dealer.

Now to our Montana. Yes, we did have some warranty items to deal with, some of them being very minor fit and finish items. Others were more serious, but only one of the other items (the roof) was really a Montana problem. All the rest were problems caused by poor quality control of the vendors supplying Montana (Magic Chef, Suburban, Alko).
Unfortunately, quality control is more of a problem now in our society than many times previously, but much of that is our own doing. Most of us do comparative PRICE shopping rather than comparative QUALITY shopping whether it is for an RV, an auto, a house, etc. We are happy with our Montana, and have been well served by our dealer taking care of the warranty items. When I think of all the mechanicals that go into a unit like a fifth wheel, and the kind of roads we often travel (another isssue I won't address), it is a wonder they hold up so well. We have had ours just over a year and have put on somewhat over 12,000 miles. Soooo... after all this... I will just put on a happy face! (sorry for the lenghty note)
Karl,

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond. The more I read, the more I feel inclined to become a "real" Montana owner. I'm good with a wrench, and electronics aren't scarey. My biggest problem is that I'm lazy, but have a lot to do besides RVing. Your note is re-assuring, and not windy at all.

Jhadley and Penny
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Old 10-30-2004, 04:08 PM   #22
Karl
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Glad it was helpful!

Enjoy your experience, and let us know how it works out!
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Old 10-30-2004, 06:23 PM   #23
stiles watson
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I am one of those who bought a preowned unit. Mine was used for 18 months by full-timers. After 18 months and 8000 miles, the unit is in pristine condition. Prior to looking at the unit I bought, I scoured the local new unit market. This unit looked every bit as bright and shiny, inside and out, as the new ones.

I was shown the service records for the unit, was taken for a point by point inspection of the unit, and was schooled in the hookup/unhook and setup procedures. Additionally he went with me to a large parking lot to practice backing and parking. I don't even know a dealer who would serve me as well as this previous owner.

He had put in a new battery, filled the propane tanks and tossed in about $3000 worth of extras. "I just wanted to make sure I treated you as I would want to be treated," was his comment and philosophy.

He told me what to expect in continuing maintenance, such as, I should expect the travel motion to possibily loosen the drains in the sink and lavatory. So watch it and if it loosens, replacing the plumbers tape is a quick and easy fix.

I have determined that maintenance on a frequently used RV is a bit like being nibbled to death by a duck. The pain is not sharp just regular.

His treatment of me and truthfulness with me has given me every confidence in the reliability of Keystone as he proclaimed. By-the-way, he is a pilot and an aeronautical engineer showing compulsive tendencies of meticulous expectations.

My wife and I will be full-timing in about six months. As I did when I had my first house built, I have determined that I WILL enjoy this adventure and not let the "little foxes spoil the vineyard."
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Old 10-30-2004, 08:08 PM   #24
harleyrider
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I`ll throw my 2 cents in as well.My first RV was a 2003 prowler TT.We just started Rv`ing then.Why I waited so long i`ll never know.First trip out ro a camp ground parked next to a guy that had a 32 foot Chaperal 5th wheel.He invited my wife and I in to look at it.And we got hooked on the idea of having a 5th wheel.Here I am with a brand spanking new TT and now we start looking for a 5th wheel.Wanted to buy brand new.Went to every dealer and Rv show we could for the next 6 monthes.I was in and out of every 5th wheel they make I think.We just loved all the Montanas that we were in.But I couldn`t afford the price.

Happen to stop by the dealer we bought our TT from.Was talking to the sales guy and telling him our thoughts.he said come with me.We walked back in his over crowded lot and saw a very dirty 5th wheel.This was in March of 2004.I told him that we really wanted a new unit.he said this one is new.Its a 3 year old left over.he told us that they over stocked their 5th wheel inventory and this unit for some reason or another hasn`t sold.We took a look inside and loved the lay out of the island kitchen and every thing else about it.

he told us it will come with a FULL warrenty.But it was god alful dirty.i`am talking black streaks form hell.The sales guy told us to think about it.Cone back up in a week or so.And take a look at it again.

So we did.Couldn`t believe it was the same 5th wheel that we saw just 6 days earlier.It was beautiful.New tires on it.The outside finish was georgous.And he gave us a price that was in our range.I made a few calls to keystone asking them certain things which I had read on this forum.Does sit have the 10 inch beams(yes)Even though its 2004 now and this unit is a 2001 will it have a full warrenty like the dealer said it would(yes)

So we took the plunge and bought it.I have had some headaches with it.If you read any of my post you will know.But we are thrilled to death to be so lucky as to have this unit.To go into a camp ground and have people come up to us and say "my what a beautifully rig"always puts a smile on my face.

No matter what brand you buy or how much money you spemd problems may come up.

One camping outing we were parked next to a guy that had a 2004 "New Horizon"5th wheel.This is probably one of the best top of the line 5ers you can buy.Its custom built.he invited us in to see it and it was beautifully,no question about it.But he spent over 90 grand for it.And had a list of problems with it that would have made me sick.didn`t really borther him a whole lot.Talk about a layed back guy.We invited him in to see ours and he said wow maybe I should have went with a Montana and saved myself 40 grand.That made me feel so proud.

People post in here of problems that they are having.I am one of them.but the vast majority of Montana owners aren`t having problems.And this forum is only a small percentage of Montana owners.

venting your problems and getting answers and suggestions and compassion is the beauty of this forum.I have been upset but am very comfortable with our decision on our purchase.

And even though I still have some things to work out and get resolved.Keystone has been very good to us.And we have no regrats on our purchase at all.We love our Montana and we love this forum and the people that are on it.

Wow talk about a long post.
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Old 10-30-2004, 08:28 PM   #25
FredG
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I'd like to throw my two cents in. this is the second FW we have owned and my wife's family has always been involved with FWs. We looked at several different brands and fell in love with our Montana's floor plan. We have a 3575, which has a huge desk and a nice open layout. Here is a list of what we have found so far:
  • Fit and Finish - Not as good as some other brands, like Holiday Rambler, Mobile Suites, etc. But, in this price range, it is probably the best.
  • Montana stands behind their product - We saw this first hand at the rally. During the tours, they had reps talking to us to find out how we use our RVs and what we like and dislike. They took notes on everything! I have not heard of another manufacturer doing anything similar.
  • Your dealer can make or break your opinion of the product. A lot of the problems that I have read about here seem to revolve around problems at dealerships. We are lucky that our dealer has been great so far, except for having to schedule everything 2-3 weeks in advance.
  • The components used in RVs all come from a few suppliers, regardless of the RV brand. Even the Montana reps we talked to have explained this problem and expressed a wish that other manufacturers would enter the RV component/appliance industry.
  • As someone has recommended earlier, use the PDI checklists that can be found in previous forum posts. This is even more important on a rig that has been sitting. We have already had a squirrel in our Montana, got in via the heating ducts. Our last FW had every AC vent destroyed by squirrels over the winter.
That being said, we have had a few minor issues and all were resolved by the dealer. After two large trips and a few short ones (totalling about 5,500 miles this year), we've had no major problems with our rig. We would lean towards a Montana over other brands based on our experience with our current RV and our experiences with the staff at Montana.

One further point, the reason why you see a lot of complaints on the forum is because people who experience problems will post about them more often than people without problems will post that everything is fine. This has occured in just about every forum that I have participated in. In my line of work (Software support), this is also true. 90% of our call volume comes from less than 10% of our customer base.

No matter what you decide, the most important thing is that you are comfortable with your RV. Good Luck with your research and purchase!
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Old 10-31-2004, 12:14 AM   #26
Montana_1280
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jhadley,
The 2004 Montana that we own is our first 5er. We are novice fulltimers and have not traveled
extensively with the Monty. Not much experience. Two things made up my mind to go with
Montana. There is a dealer within 50 miles and cost vs quality.
I wanted a dealer close enough to home base to deal with problems and warranty work.
I know there are higher quality units available, but I had to go with what I could afford and the
Motana seemed to be a good bang for the buck. I have owned one vihicle in the last 50 years that
did not give me trouble of some sort. Odds are anything mechanical will have problems, some
worse than others. From what I have read on this forum, odds are in your favor ith a Monty. Go
with your gut. happy trails...
Also, after all the research and forum reading, I tend to go with my gut feel. If it don't feel right, don't do it. Just a thought>
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Old 10-31-2004, 01:23 AM   #27
dbrill
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We are very pleased with our Mountaineer and only had 2 minor problems when we first got it (which our dealer resolved immediately) and none since (other than a broken window which is not Keystones fault). Yes I have heard horror stories from others but they seem to be the minority. On the other hand my parents recently traded an older (1990) Monoco Class A in on a 2005 Cardinal they have had out twice and both times they had to cut their trip short to take it back to the dealer for MONTHS of repairs. They just took it back last weekend and apparently the gas lines are run incorrectly with flexible line instead of the solid lines on my Mountaineer and the dealer says he hopes he can get it back to them by June/July but they are going to have to take a large amount of the unit apart to work on it (Forest River told the dealer to fix it rather than just replacing the unit). The only reason they did not go with a Montana is that none of the dealers would take such an old trade and the Cardinal dealer would (after 2 years of trying to sell it on their own). Point is no matter what you buy some lemons come off the assembly line, and we all hope that no matter what brand you buy you don't get one.
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Old 10-31-2004, 01:24 AM   #28
Karl
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I, for one, am very happy that this thread developed. As someone else said, in a forum such as this, it is much more likely that those who have problems with their units will speak up than those who have no problems at all. We are happy with our decision, and would likely go to Montana again. Certainly I would be one of the first to wish for better quality control in all things we purchase, but I also realize that we, the buying public, much too often look at the "bottom line" when we purchase, and that means that not only must the companies putting out the product strive for the ultimate efficiency, but they must also seek out the most economical components to put in their products. When I boil it down, I had only two items that really were the fault of Keystone... ...all the rest were things that concerned products supplied by their vendors, yet Keystone's warranty had to address them.

When you factor in the stresses we put on our units..... (some of the roads I have taken mine are ridiculous!!).. and the myriad of mechanical components, I am often struck by how well they do hold up!

Gee...I just re-read my post and my earlier post...and I said these things before...goes to show that turning 65 yesterday must have done things to my memory!
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Old 10-31-2004, 02:01 AM   #29
Montana_2194
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by stiles watson

I am one of those who bought a preowned unit. Mine was used for 18 months by full-timers. After 18 months and 8000 miles, the unit is in pristine condition.

I have determined that maintenance on a frequently used RV is a bit like being nibbled to death by a duck. The pain is not sharp just regular.

I have determined that I WILL enjoy this adventure and not let the "little foxes spoil the vineyard."
What a wonderful note. Thanks Stiles Watson for your thoughts and experience. I think I'm in a similar situation, with a very nice and meticulous owner who hasn't put 1,000 miles on his. His "barn" is cleaner than most homes.

Your words are encouraging, and realistic.

Jhadley
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Old 10-31-2004, 02:06 AM   #30
Montana_2194
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by harleyrider

I`ll throw my 2 cents in as well.
We love our Montana and we love this forum and the people that are on it.

Wow talk about a long post.
Dear Harley,

Your two cents is priceless. Thanks for taking the time. I'm feeling more encouraged with every post.

jhadley (Suzuki Intruder 1500 rider)
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Old 10-31-2004, 02:12 AM   #31
Montana_2194
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by FredG

I'd like to throw my two cents in.

One further point, the reason why you see a lot of complaints on the forum is because people who experience problems will post about them more often than people without problems will post that everything is fine. This has occured in just about every forum that I have participated in. In my line of work (Software support), this is also true. 90% of our call volume comes from less than 10% of our customer base.

No matter what you decide, the most important thing is that you are comfortable with your RV. Good Luck with your research and purchase!
Thanks Fred and Jen,

Again, not 2 cents worth at all, Valuable insight with excellent points.

Jhadley
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Old 10-31-2004, 02:14 AM   #32
Montana_2194
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by alongcamejones
If it don't feel right, don't do it. Just a thought>
Thanks Jonesy ... good advice

jhadley
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Old 10-31-2004, 02:17 AM   #33
Montana_2194
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by dbrill
[Point is no matter what you buy some lemons come off the assembly line, and we all hope that no matter what brand you buy you don't get one.
Thanks Don and Lisa,

That's our hope too. I think the odds are in my favour based on the excellent responses I have received to this somewhat controversial posting

jh
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Old 10-31-2004, 02:22 AM   #34
Montana_2194
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Karl

I, for one, am very happy that this thread developed.

.goes to show that turning 65 yesterday must have done things to my memory!
Happy Birthday Karl.

I'm not far behind (61) and racing to the big RV park in the sky too. Repeating one's self on positive things is considered re-inforcement, not forgetfullness.

jh
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Old 10-31-2004, 08:41 AM   #35
skyguy
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I wanted to throw in a couple more thoughts...

1) No warranty? We bought our 2001 unit in Feb of 2002, used, and it still had 5 months of warranty left on it. We were able to get a couple of small isues resolved in the warranty period. The folks that originally had our 5er traded it in for another Montana.

2) We haven't had a major problem with the unit since we bought it.

3) You didn't mention your previous experience with RVing. My parents had RVs, from POPup campers to full size MHs to MiniMH's. I had a 24 foot TT for 10 years before trading up to our Monty. We boated for 15 years progressing from a 16 foot open bow to a 32 foot Hunter sailboat. ALL of these rigs require maintenance! (And I won't go into the costs of boating VS RVing!) I'm a guy that loves to fuss and tinker, so the constant maintenance doesn't bother me, it's part of the territory. There are people that love the constant fiddling, and there are those that simply pay someone to do it was necessary.

4) Sounds like you have a great opportunity in front of you! And overall, you could do a lot worse. Best of luck with your decision!

BTW - we love our 4 year old Monty and are just thrilled each time we use it, whether short timing for a weekend, or sitting at a KOA in Southern Colo for two months as our "hunting lodge"!
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Old 10-31-2004, 09:16 AM   #36
Montana_2194
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by skyguy

I wanted to throw in a couple more thoughts...

1) No warranty? We bought our 2001 unit in Feb of 2002, used, and it still had 5 months of warranty left on it. We were able to get a couple of small isues resolved in the warranty period. The folks that originally had our 5er traded it in for another Montana.

2) We haven't had a major problem with the unit since we bought it.

That's what I want to hear.3)

You didn't mention your previous experience with RVing. My parents had RVs, from POPup campers to full size MHs to MiniMH's. I had a 24 foot TT for 10 years before trading up to our Monty. We boated for 15 years progressing from a 16 foot open bow to a 32 foot Hunter sailboat. ALL of these rigs require maintenance! (And I won't go into the costs of boating VS RVing!) I'm a guy that loves to fuss and tinker, so the constant maintenance doesn't bother me, it's part of the territory. There are people that love the constant fiddling, and there are those that simply pay someone to do it was necessary.

4) Sounds like you have a great opportunity in front of you! And overall, you could do a lot worse. Best of luck with your decision!

BTW - we love our 4 year old Monty and are just thrilled each time we use it, whether short timing for a weekend, or sitting at a KOA in Southern Colo for two months as our "hunting lodge"!
Hi Al and Rexann,

I was a camper as a kid and young adult, taking a canvas tent to Algonquin Park in Ontario, or the Sandbanks on Lake Ontario. I tended to like remote lonely spots where I could read, think, and just do nothing. I sail a Sirius 28 solo around Lake Ontario in the summer, and ride a big bike (1500 Suzuki). My first sailboat was a 1932 Cedar strip 16 foot "Viking Invader" (our nickname) which was unstable, no motor, home-made boat from a local fire-chief. If you could sail this thing in bad weather, you could've saved the Titanic. Stand on the gunwhale at dock, and it would capsize. My wife doesn't do these things, and that's why I wanted to get into RVing since I just retired 2 months ago.

I don't particularly like fussing, but do a lot of the same on the boats and my two bikes. I guess my concern is spending-spending-spending on major mechanical problems after spending a considerable sum on the unit, and not having much fun as a result. I like golf, but can't enjoy a round that costs $10/hole, regardless of the course.

Do you understand my concern?

I am delighted by your message. I think you've tipped the scales, and we're probably going to go for this. My wife really liked the 2005 Outback (also Keystone), but the finish on the 3255 is so much better.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

Jack and Penny Hadley
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Old 10-31-2004, 09:23 AM   #37
CmdrDewey
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REPOST FROM SEVERAL MONTHS AGO

There are over 1000 members on this site. Many of us have had several minor issues which we have fixed ourselves or have been fixed by either the dealer or Keystone. There are maybe a dozen or so people that have had significant issues. If I was one of the dozen, I would be furious, but thankfully, I am not. There were 4940 Montanas sold through December of 2003 making it the #1 seller of 5th wheels for the third year running. My list has the top 45 sellers. Significantly, Mountaineer is not even on the list. Jayco Eagle is #11 but dropped significantly in 2003 and Sandpiper #21. My dealer can order Mountaineer but won't. They had one but it took forever to get rid of it and they had issues. I think that says something about resale value. If money is the issue, look at Cougar (also a Keystone product)which is the 2nd best seller at 3967 units sold in 2003. If you can, bite the bullet and go with the Montana, if my math is right, you have about a 99.9% chance of being mostly satisfied. (12 out of 1000 not satisfied) The key to this process is dealer, dealer and dealer. If you have any reservations, run, don't walk away.

Good luck
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Old 10-31-2004, 10:20 AM   #38
Montana_2194
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[quote]Originally posted by CmdrDewey

REPOST FROM SEVERAL MONTHS AGO

There are over 1000 members on this site. Many of us have had several minor issues which we have fixed ourselves or have been fixed by either the dealer or Keystone. There are maybe a dozen or so people that have had significant issues. If I was one of the dozen, I would be furious, but thankfully, I am not. There were 4940 Montanas sold through December of 2003 making it the #1 seller of 5th wheels for the third year running. My list has the top 45 sellers. Significantly, Mountaineer is not even on the list. Jayco Eagle is #11 but dropped significantly in 2003 and Sandpiper #21. My dealer can order Mountaineer but won't. They had one but it took forever to get rid of it and they had issues. I think that says something about resale value. If money is the issue, look at Cougar (also a Keystone product)which is the 2nd best seller at 3967 units sold in 2003. If you can, bite the bullet and go with the Montana, if my math is right, you have about a 99.9% chance of being mostly satisfied. (12 out of 1000 not satisfied) The key to this process is dealer, dealer and dealer. If you have any reservations, run, don't walk away.

Good luck

Dear David and Cathy,

Thanks for your response. Because I'm looking at a private sale of a 2000, Dealer-Dealer-Dealer doesn't apply. Also. 99.9% suggests about 1 in a thousand, but that's just me

Your stats are most re-assuring. I like to think that major problems are not going to occur, and recognize that **** happens. (am I allowed to say **** in the USA?) --(I guess so because of what I see on TV).

I have been gratified by the response of people like you who have balanced my perception of what I'm looking for. Please recognize that if I (we) had any reservations, we would still be living at home with our dead parents. We're not afraid of taking chances, but try to avoid folly.

Thanks again for your positive input. I expect you'll see us on the road in our Monty.

Jack and Penny

ps. I don't recall mentioning the "Mountaineer" we did mention the Outback once, I think. Also, money isn't the issue as much a value.
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Old 11-01-2004, 01:24 AM   #39
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Quote: I am pondering buying an excellently presented 2000 3255 or something with two slide-outs, and it has been hardly used.

We purchased an "excellently presented", "previously loved" 2000 Mountaineer 305FKS in 2002. We have had absolutely NO problems whatsoever. By purchasing a previously owned unit, we had some $$$ to add our personal touch (bedspread, curtains, and every oak accessory you can find !) and to make some of the upgrades recommended here and in other forums (Maxxi-vents, Maxxi-fan, Hunter thermostat, etc,). If we were in the market for a new RV, we'd still go through the comparison routine, but I believe Montana would win hands down!
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Old 11-01-2004, 03:25 AM   #40
Montana_621
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Very well said!

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Broome101

Well I have had 3 Keystone products and never a major issue with any of them. Since Montana sells 4 to 1 over the rest of the 5th wheels sold and Cougar number 2 which is another Keystone product I guess there will be more problems then the rest.I think you may want to llok for another web site that talks about another 5th wheel discussion group. Maybe Jayco, Fleetwood, let us know if you find one that talks about the good and bad I don't know if the exist or not? Too each there own I guess if anyone within this forum did not want to buy a Montana than I don't think anyone was holding a gun to there head, if I was not happy with a product I may speak my piece but I would sale it and get ride of it. Most of us love out Monatana's and yes there is a bad one or two that has problems but for the most part Keystone puts out a good product for the money.Keystone stands behind the product as well.
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