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Old 12-14-2010, 11:08 AM   #21
PowellsMonty
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Richfa,
Where is the plug? I couldn't see mine, and what does it look like? Thank you!
 
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Old 12-14-2010, 11:19 AM   #22
tcorbitt
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First congratulations on the new addition to your family, just in time for the Holidays!!

Living in the White Mountains of New Hampshire has not made me an expert on cold weather diesel, but sure has provided opportunities to learn many lessons on how to get a cold diesel engine started in below zero weather.

For the problem you experienced, I think you had glow plug issues not a fuel gel issue. First, regular diesel will gel below -10F without winter blend additives. Winter blends reduce that freeze temp to between -20F and -40F at the pump (an area like NH -20F, Alaska -40F). Anytime you are in an area where the temps are going to drop below 0F, it is wise to add anti-gel when fueling just in case. The exact blend will of course change the gelling point, however in general, the base #2 Oil without any additives is good down to 0F. We use plenty of off-road #2 fuel in our construction equipment and below 0F is when fuel filters start clog with frozen particles from untreated fuel.



The Block heater is just that a block heater. This will not prevent the fuel from gelling in general although some limited benefit may be gained under the hood for the engine mounted fuel filter (which is why the primary fuel filter mounted under the truck gels/freezes first. Gelling takes place first in the fuel lines and more often becomes an issue in the fuel filter where the frozen waxes clog the filter. Most often in the primary filter (mounted under the truck rails) will be where the problem (clogged fuel filter) will be found. The fuel filters are preventing the frozen particle from reaching the injectors where real damage could be done.

If your fuel becomes gelled, it is almost impossible to remedy until the weather warms up without removing the fuel filter. At the school of hard knocks, I have more than once, found myself under a truck replacing a fuel filter to get a truck running. Also at the same school, I have been able to perfect my skills at replacing clogged filters on the coldest of mornings on a backhoe or two.

Now back to why I am wondering about your Glow Plugs. Generally, a Diesel engine should fire up with the assistance of glow plugs down to -10F. It will be rough and loud with lots of smoke but should start without much difficulty. Below that, very hard starting without a block heater, but is should be possible. Anything below 20F will start nicely with a block heater in use (for a 2-3 hours before starting). If you cannot start the truck above -10F without the block heater, I would expect one or more of you glow plugs are gone. From what you describe, you may want to get the glow plugs checked. Again, from experience, we run all our vehicles without block heaters down to 0F. We know if one of the engines has trouble starting at those temps that it is time to start diagnosing/replacing glow plugs. In fact, our 2006 PSD is starting to show the signs of glow plug failure it is will not start without a block heater at temps as high as 10-15F this winter.

Again, I am far from an expert and by no means a diesel mechanic, just a few decades of experience with the cold and Diesel engines to know,

(1) the modern diesel engine with glow plugs should start and run just find down of 0F without a block heater or any fuel additives
(2) if you need a block heater to start an engine above 0F, get your glow plugs and/or temp sensors checked/replaced.
(3) don't worry about fuel gelling above 0F, but if in danger of dropping below 0F, anti-gel additive is a great way to avoid having to crawl under the truck and replace a fuel filter to get your day started.

And finally, if you are going to be out of town, by all means add the anti-gel and plug in the block heater for your wife even if it is not suppose to be any colder than the teens... just make sure she sees the cord and cannot drive off with it connected... again

Hope this helps, Tim
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Old 12-14-2010, 11:20 AM   #23
camper4
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My chevy has a heater but I think it has to be 10 degrees or less before it will work.
I never use additives. I go to stations with high turn over. I don't gel up and have had this truck at 15 below F. I had my 2003 Ford diesel at minus 20 degrees F many times and never gelled up.
Just lucky, I guess.
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Old 12-14-2010, 12:01 PM   #24
bw2
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UPDATE: Added the Power Service w/ winter from Walmart. Waited for an hour or so and then it fired right up. The engine block heater on my 2005 F250 is on the passenger side behind the wheel well above the solenoid. It is a round connector next to the freeze plug.
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Old 12-20-2010, 02:35 PM   #25
The Weekenders
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by bw2

My 2005 F250 is sitting in the driveway with the gelled fuel. The block heater is standard but the block heater cord is an option for purchase. Called Ford and they said the block heater would not help the gelled fuel. My error is I failed to use the truck enough prior to this really cold snap and my fuel does not have the winter blend. Went and purchased cetane with winter blend. Waiting and hoping for a little warm up to help the fuel to "ungel"? (That a word?) It is too cold to crawl underneath and remove the fuel filter and add 9-1-1. I will not make this mistake again, I have learned my lesson!

We are the cold weather experts up here in North Dakota (LOL) and if you are gelled, no need to pull the filter, just pour a container of Power Service 911 in the tank and let it set for 10 minutes or so. I had treated summer fuel with Power Service Antigel and at minus thirty five below I started to gel up. Poured in 911 and in five minutes I was running just fine. The only time I plug in the PSD is if the temps drops below zero. And then I just plug in my oil pan heater I installed a few years ago instead of the block heater.

The last two years, the PowerService antigel doesnt seem to work as well at cold temps as it used to. I just put in some winter blend fuel now with some PS. I never leave home in the winter without a bottle of 911.
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Old 12-21-2010, 07:03 PM   #26
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I've been gone a while, however, the station in Bend is the cheapest station in town, by the locals. Seemed to me that should equate to volume. I will heed your advice to always use high volume stations.

I guess I really can't say whether it was gelled fuel or bad glow plugs. I can say that I have had no problems since that time. It is time to change my fuel filters. I do still lean towards gelling fuel. There was a breeze that night, however, I don't believe the wind chill was below zero.

I had a qt of 911....in my 5er....decided not to bring it because I would not need it. Bought a qt on the way back and now have a qt in the p/u and my 5er. I live in the 5er and didn't know I would be without it. Another lesson learned. I just hope that old dogs can learn new tricks. At my next oil change I will have the glow plugs checked and my fuel filters changed.

Thanks for the input and MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:39 AM   #27
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Had a post maybe last week about additives this is the perfect post why to use them every tank, cost for me is $.60 per tank. At some stations fuel may sit for long periods of time till new arrives we need to deal with it to protect your investments. Happy to hear this story had a happy ending!
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Old 12-22-2010, 03:39 AM   #28
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sounds to be more like water that froze in the line .diesel should not gell at 10 degrees.water will freeze at that temp.i would put some deicer in the fuel tank to get rid of the water.
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:13 PM   #29
MAMalody
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Finally had a chance to have the pu checked out. Turned out to be a bad gloplug controller. $279 late we are set to go. Thanks for all the input. I appreciate it.
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Old 01-09-2011, 04:52 AM   #30
montana2511
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Having spent over 45 years in trucking, a little trick we used was to wrap the fuel filters with a self sticking baby diaper for insulation.(Pampers)
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Old 01-09-2011, 10:46 AM   #31
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I can just here my diesel mech at my dealer if I drove in with a Pampers wrapped around the fuel filter! I doubt if I would ever hear the end of that one! I have never heard of this but it just might work for that extra warmth!
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Old 01-10-2011, 01:42 AM   #32
HughM
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How often do you have to change the Pampers ???
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Old 01-10-2011, 03:16 AM   #33
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If you ever changed a diaper you would know.
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Old 01-10-2011, 03:39 AM   #34
montana2511
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I don't know of the other brands but the late model Fords have the primary fuel filter mounted on the left frame rail almost under the drivers floor pan and this makes them really bad for packing with snow and ice. I think the Dodge's have the fuel filter mounted on the engine.
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Old 01-10-2011, 05:43 AM   #35
PowellsMonty
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Speaking of water in the fuel, my "Drain Water Seperator" warning light keeps coming on annd I keep draining it. I will drain it & 8 miles afterwards, it comes on again. Anyone have this problem in the past? I will take it in but like to have an idea before I pull itin the service line.
Thank you.
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