black tank

[Charlotte]

Whee - I feel a little better! I thought I was imaging things. Someone on the washer thread said the back tank was the same size as the gray on the Montana when I mentioned having a smaller one. When I woke up this morning, I remembered when I had read it. It is in the sales brochure on the Montana, in the standard features listing. It says "gray water-76 gal., black water-38 gal." I worry about those "senior moments" when I have them.
Charlotte

[Montana_1240]

Charlotte,

You are correct, according to the data on http://keystone-montana.com/?page=specs and http://keystone-montana.com/?page=standards too.

It appears they have combined the gray and galley tanks in that specification.

I saw with my own eyes, while on both factory tours, three tanks, (aside from the big white fresh water tank,) in the frames of the Monties they were building.

If you only have two drain valves, it's possible things have changed. But, if you have a Black, Gray, AND Galley drain valves, then you have three "waste" tanks. Each of which would be 38 gallons.

Maybe they have changed, due to the uproar over finding those washers connected to some black tanks!

Something for the factory tour groups to poke into!

Steve

[CountryGuy]

Agree with Steve, it has been this way for a long time, THREE tanks, each 38 gallons, 2 for gray (bath and kitchen, which is frequently called galley) and ONE for black. Unless as Steve has said, they have changed it lately. Therefore, the total gray/galley is 76 gallons. They really oughta change the brochure on this, it is just toooooooo confusing!

[Charlotte]

Yes, we have three tanks. I was looking at it wrong. Not as two gray tanks combined for the 76 gal. Since we are parked for 3 months at a time, we leave the galley tank open all the time. Does anyone know a reason that we shouldn't?
Charlotte

[CountryGuy]

Charlotte,

I have been know to campaign AGAINST leaving any tank open all the time.

Black, self explanatory, aka mountains, ewwww.

Gray, soap scum build up, and yes, it can be nasty smelling, etc.

Galley, soap scum and FOOD particles. If the tank is left open they lay in the bottom of the tank and turn into a hard form of concrete like something or other. If the stuff if floating and washed out, the chances of plugging the pipes with build up is less. Again, smell is a concern too.

We also use Calgon water softener in the tanks when we move. Helps to keep the tanks clean, a little water softener down the drains, about 1 to 3 gallons of water (can add laundry soap to the black tank, UNLESS your washer/dryer is plumbed there, in which case, you already have soap). Run to next campground. No need to dump it, just hook up, continue living, dump when ya gotta.

I am not a fan of ice in the tanks (for cleaning when you moved from campground to campground), you can get ice in the toilet, but cannot get in the gray/galley tanks. Costs a lot, I can clean all my tanks with Calgon for a season for the price of 3 to 4 bags of ice.

My advice, keep those tanks ALL closed till they are about full, then dump, black, then galley, then gray. It works for us, you will find your own methods that suit your lifestyle.

Good luck

Carol

[Parrothead]

Charlotte
We have always left the galley opened when parked for any length of time. We have lived (while I worked) in 5th wheels for 7-8 years and have parked for a year or more in the same place. We have had no trouble with this method. We do wipe food off with paper towels before washing. We keep the black and gray tanks closed and then use the usual method of dumping - black, then gray. We back flush the black about every third time. We started using Carol's Calgon method about a year ago and up until the triple digit temps hit it works very well. I don't put detergent in since our bathroom sink goes into the black and I feel it gets plenty of soap from the sink. When it is real hot (105) we need to use the chemicals some. If I know we are going to leave the galley open I put some Calgon or Twenty Mule Team Borax in it before we start down the road with some water. That sloshes everything around and would loosen up anything that is there.
Happy trails.......................

[sreigle]

Did the factory tour last Tuesday. It's not changed. Two gray tanks, one for bath area and one for the galley. 38 gallons each. Black tank is 38 gallons also. Freshwater tank is either 60 or 62 gallons (darn CRS).

[CountryGuy]

Sue,

We need to get you fulltiming and out of those triple digit temps!!! Come to Michigan, we rarely have a day over 95!

(Course, our humidity is a bit high, not dry 95, humid 95.)

But, still we rarely have 100 degree days! Whew, these Montana's have wheels on em, get out of triple digits, come north my friend!!

Carol

[harleyrider]

I leave my gray tank open ONLY when using the washer/dryer.Yes mine does drain into the gray tank.

[Parrothead]

Carol, we are trying. Going to Flagstaff for 2-3 weeks then home to put Mother's house on the market. Then we will do ours. We are already tagging things to keep (storage), put in Monty, give to kids, get rid of. Problem is I inherited all this stuff from my parents so now my job is bigger than ever. Thousands of slides and movies, reel to reel tapes, records, photo albums, etc.
I forgot to mention we leave our gray tank open when running washer but then close it for showers.
Happy trails....................

[CountryGuy]

Sue, we can all relate to the thousands of photos, slides, etc. And, I think there are a lot of us doing a lot of scanning! Do you smell the smoke??

Seeing that we have no washer in Tana, I leave my tanks shut till they are gettin full! Still would love to have a Spendide, but, tain't happening at this point. Oh, well, dream on gals!!

Carol

[Parrothead]

Yes, scanning is going to be the answer plus my Dad put all this on VCR but he was in a bit of a hurry and this was when the technology was real new for doing this. I plan to put all of this on DVD. I have a lot of cousins who want copies. The records and reel to reel are a problem yet to be solved.
Happy trails....................

[richfaa]

It is a good thing to flush out those gray tanks from time to time as food particles and soap scum does build up, as countryguy indicates.We leave ours open but do a once a week tank flush on the gray tanks when out for awhile. Also do everything that you can to minimize food particles from going into the tank.We use a lot of paper towels and wipe our dirty dishes off before washing..it helps...

[Ozzie]

Speaking of tanks...I do have a couple questions.
I have been trying to find the location of the tanks to see how the weight is distributed.
We have the 2004 327RKS (rear kitchen - front bed - bath between bed and lr)
I know many travel with the fresh only halfway full to avoid overloading.
Next trip out my waste tanks will be nearly full (including the Geo method in each tank)to slosh going down the road followed by a complete flush with full hookups.
So...how much does this water affect the weight? How do you guys run down the road?

[Montana_1240]

Ozzie,

Water weighs about 6 pounds per gallon.

I can't tell you for sure where all your tanks are. But you can be pretty sure that where the big pipe goes down through the basement, under the toilet, that's about where the black tank will be.

Oh, and I believe that in most of the units, the fresh tanks are at the rear, where the inlet cover is located.

Might be a good question to ask when taking a factory tour, if you ever do. Ask about your model, and what differences there might be between models. Maybe even the thinking that puts them where they are in the various models. There might be a reason behind it all.

What’s the “Geo method?”

F.Y.I: We run with about a third of a tank of fresh, just so there's water to flush and wash hands during trips. We don't do any boondocking, so we're usually running with the rest of the tanks empty.

Steve

[Ozzie]

Thanks for the reply Gyro. I seem to have more questions then answers these days since twisting my factory Chevy hitch and getting setup all over. Weight distribution and tongue weight are next on my list. I haven't weighed my setup yet although I would have a hard time believing I am overloaded as it tows wonderfully. I have to watch the speedo so my speeds don't creep up on me.

I would agree with the notion that the tank would be close to the pipe coming out of the covered bottom. That tells me the black and the grey are in front of the axles, and the galley and fresh are in the rear.
I usually run with 5+ gallons in the black premixed, and a gallon or so in each grey tank (also pemixed).
If I'm going to a dry destination (read - woods), I load up with fresh water too.
Since the fresh tank is behind the axles, I would think the impact on tongue weight would not be significant.

The Geo method is a care and maintenance routine I found on the net. Basically it consists of a chemical cocktail of Borax or Culligan water softener, laundry soap, and bleach. (bleach twice a year for disinfectant). Some people are using this instead of the premade solutions for the waste tanks.
I'm trying it out as the chemicals I got are all septic safe and it's supposed to be a very effective method of keeping things clean.

[CountryGuy]

Ozzie

Many of us here at MOC use this Geo method you talk about. We don't have a name for it tho, not that I know of.

Al and I use mostly the Calgon (water softener, laundry aisle, grocery store) when we run. If you do a search you will see we discussed this very recently. Basically we use about a capful in each tank, and follow with a few gallons (2 to 3) of water, and away we go. I will add laundry soap to the black tank, don't feel it is necessary in the gray/galley, as they already have lots of soap in there. I have been known to use some bleach, but honestly I rarely do even that these days.

Many of us are finding that we are very happy with this method, no chemicals, less expensive, etc.

Welcome to the forum, Happy camping.

Carol

[Ozzie]

A couple of capfulls? Uh-oh...sounds like I'm in for a sudsy mess...LOL
At least I'll be good and clean after this roto rooter job. I have the tanks nearly full (over the top probe)and it'll be about a 90 minute pull to the campground.

The Geo page - found here: http://cbruni.googlepages.com says two cups of water softener and a cup of the laundry soap...I see this is going to take a few flushes...heh
I'm glad it's working for you. I hated the fumes putting in that store bought tank mix.

[Montana_1240]

I’ve been looking at this Ozark, Alabama Walmart for Calgon, down here, to no avail.

Bleach can't hurt, either.

We’ll take a ride to Dothan, Alabama in a day or two, for more specialized shopping.

I know it’s way past due for me to clean out those tanks. I don’t leave the valves open, even though we’re sitting her for months, now. And still I see some algae growing on the clear elbow I have at the dump valve. I guess that beats BROWN stuff. But I don’t like it. And God knows what’s been “growing” in the tanks.

I seldom use black tank chemicals, since I let the black tank flush run for at least a half an hour while it’s dumping about once a week or so. It runs clear by the end of that period.

I’d love to throw ice in there. Maybe some salt, too. (Used to clean coffee carafes that way, and never got over how clean those old brown stained things got!) But it’s too hot to believe I could dump ice in there and actually start moving before it simply melted. Not to mention how much it’d cost to do that, knowing it would be a waste.

Steve