Wheel/Tire Problem

[jimcol]

I am certainly not an expert on 5'er weight distribution but the explanation follows everything I have ever read about weight on axle's and hitches. What part are you having a hard time swallowing? Jim

[Tom S.]

quote:Originally posted by Nelsen55

Once again, thanks to all who have replied. Am learning alot about wheels and tires. Tredit has sent me a warranty claim form, so there maybe some hope yet. Did some figuring today. Camper empty weight is 11,710#s, cargo weight is 3,790#s which equals 15,000#s, Wheels are rated at 3750#s each X 4 equals 15,000#s. E load range tires are rated for 3420#s each X4 equals 13,680#s. Difference is 1320#s, Possible to overload tires by 1,320#s. Called Keystone and was refered to a member of "Team Montana". He told me that you must subtract the weight of the trailer hitch from the camper's dry and cargo weight since the hitch weight is supported by the tow vehicle. Not sure 100% of the hitch weight is support by the tow vehicle. To continue, the hitch weight is 2,060#s from 15,000#s, equals 12,940#s. Therefore I have 740#s of safety margin. Having a hard time swallowing this explination. Damn Keystone is slippery. Looks like new tires and a TPMS for me for Christmas.

Team Montana told you correctly, the pin weight is not considered part of the tire load. When the pin weight isn't being supported by the truck, it's being supported by the front jacks, so it's not being supported by the tires and axles.

[mach111]

James, Welcome to the site. Joining this site was one of the best things I have done. Our unit HAD Marathons and we were lucky when we experienced a blow out last Christmas. I learned quickly new tires were on the top of the list. Hopefully you will get some help on the rim. We now have new Michelins XPS ribs with TST Tire System. We travel with piece of mind knowing we will know quickly if a tire has problems.

[Carl n Susan]

While brochures, paper and pencil, and Team Montana advice are all good ideas, the best thing to do is to weigh the unit. Best would be getting the weight of each wheel, and truck with and without the RV. Knowing exactly what weight is supported by the wheels v. the truck is essential to determining the proper tires needed.

[Nelsen55]

As for whether or not I saw any sparks from the blow out, the answer is no, it was an aluminium wheel that took the weight. My Durmax just kept on trucking as if nothing happened. The part of Keystone's explination I couldn't swallow was that 100% of the 5th wheel hitch weight is supported by the TV. I will have to head the scales to check the weight distribution for myself so I can either prove or disprove Keystone's explination.

[Phil P]

Hi

Keystones own literature states the pin weight will be between 15 and 20 % of the trailer weight.

This is a common problem dealing with customer service. They will not check with someone else if you question their statement.

Phil P

[bncinwv]

quote:Originally posted by Nelsen55

The part of Keystone's explination I couldn't swallow was that 100% of the 5th wheel hitch weight is supported by the TV. I will have to head the scales to check the weight distribution for myself so I can either prove or disprove Keystone's explination.

Like other's have said, I am not sure what has to be proved or disproved. The pin weight of the unit has no choice to be supported by the fifth wheel hitch or the front legs. The tires and axles support what the hitch does not, and when you scale the rig and the truck properly, you will have an actual pin weight by using a simple subtraction. Pin weight can also be referred to as hitch weight (which translates to tongue weight on a travel trailer). What Keystone states as the pin "hitch" weight is an estimate. Depending on how a rig is loaded, the exact same rig loaded by two different people will have different pin weights based on the load distribution in the rig. As others have stated, when you know your fully loaded weights, then you can make a rational, educated decision as to what tires are required. Good luck with your decision making process!
Bingo

[richfaa]

The 15 to 20% pin weight figure is a industry wide statement for estimation purposes only. Weighing is the only way to get your actual pin weigh and no manufacturer could possibly know the individual pin weigh of every Rv out there.
Our actual pin weight was 17% on our loaded 06 3400.

[mhs4771]

Our pin weight with the on-board Onan and a fully loaded Basement is approx 25%. So using 20% is a pretty good "Ball Park" number, but as said the only way to know for sure is go to the scales.

[Fire5er]

Nelsen55, unless you weigh your rig (at CAT scale or similar) you will not know what your 5er truly weighs. Going by the sticker weights is only part of the equation, and only gives you max allowed weights. If you only go RVing on weekends and holidays I don't think that your 5er is at max weight.

[dieselguy]

If I were to interpret your post literally "He told me that you must subtract the weight of the trailer hitch from the camper's dry and cargo weight since the hitch weight is supported by the tow vehicle." you might have misunderstood what they said. It's not the weight of the trailer hitch itself they're talking about ... it's the weight of the fiver supported by the hitch in your truck that they were talking about. And ... yes, that weight would be 100% supported by the hitch as well as yes that weight is subtracted from your total fiver weight to get down to what is supported by your axles.

[Nelsen55]

The figure Keystone gave me for my hitch weight was 2,060 lbs. 15,560 - 2,060 = 13,500. Tire max weight load 3420 X 4 = 13,680. 13,680 - 13,500 = 180lbs of tire weight margin total. 180/4 = 45 lbs of tire weight margine per tire.

[8.1al]

Keep in mind that hitch weight is for an empty trailer, this will change when it is loaded. The only way to know what you really have is to weigh it. Using factory numbers for our trailer, subtracting published pin weight from GVWR I get 12,000 lbs. on the tires. With the trailer loaded I actually have 11,200 lbs. on the tires.

[dieselguy]

Like many have eluded to ... best bet is to get your truck / trailer weighed. Unless you fulltime and haul around everything you own ... you'll probably find you're several hundred pounds away from the 15,560 max advertised weight quoted thus eliminating some heartache. Scales can be found at many grain elevators, truck stops, local trash distribution terminals, as well as say your local moving van company. It'll cost you a few coins, but peace of mind will be the result. Otherwise, you're just relying on some numbers averaged out to appease "John Q Public".

[Desert RVer]

When we had an original FreeStar (replacement for the original Missions) tire fail the only thing I noticed or heard was sparks coming from the left rear of the 5ver. The rim wasn't hitting the ground, it was the steel cords in the tread that were hitting the concrete and causing the sparks. Have no idea how long before the tire had actually failed. There wasn't much left of the tire. The tread was mostly wrapped around the axle and the bead was still on the rim. The sidewalls were almost all gone. The FreeStar's were still under warranty but TireCo refused to honor their warranty. After having both Missions and FresStar ST tires, with less than 10,000 miles on each set, fail I finally learned my lesson. No more ST tires. Have switched to Bridgestone Durvais LT Tires. So far so good. A much more substantial tire with way more tread.

[Nelsen55]

Received an email from Tredit Tire today, Tredit is sending me a new rim and 2 new tires @ no charge!!!! It is great to see a supplier in the RV industry step up to the plate and take some responsibility even though it may not have been their problem in the first place. Kudoos to Tredit! Will use the 2 new tires to get a credit against the new set of five tires I am buying for the Monty!

[8.1al]

Thanks for letting us know, Tredit has been a good company to work with.