3400 post script - Page 3 - Montana Owners Club

bardave · 07-31-2006, 06:33 PM

how much do you think a dealer pays the maker for a fifth wheel that they put a $60,000 price tag on?? In reading all the entries on the first 4 pages, I see where folks are getting 20,30 35, even more of a % off MSRP. For instance a 60K 5vr with a 30% discount one is paying 42K for the deal. Is everyoe saying that dealers mark these things up that much? Even with 30% knocked off, they still have to make a profit....how much of a profit do they deserve? I have only bargained one time for a fiver and didnt take the deal..but figured they were giving me 22% discount from MSRP... and that is after two salesman and of course the boss has to step in and lower the figure a 3rd time. I hate being tag teamed!

I would like to be reasonable in countering the salesmans first price. it is their job to get as much money out of me that they can, but is is my job to keep as much of it as I can...and still keep everyone happy and receive good service in the future.

Does anyone have an idea of what a dealer really pays for a 60K fiver.. do you think they get holdback/withhold funds (like car delaers) from Keystone for fivers they sell?

Montana Sky · 07-31-2006, 06:43 PM

bardave,
You may want to do a search and find every Montana dealer within a distance you are willing to drive. After that, get a 2007 retail price sheet, check off every option you want to order. Then fax that same sheet to every dealer you located and tell them you want their best price. You will be amazed at the price difference between dealers that are 500 - 1000 miles apart. Just a thought....

2004 Chevy Silverado LT 2500HD CrewCab Duramax
2004 Montana 3400RL

bardave · 07-31-2006, 07:09 PM

good idea.... I have our options selected and the coach I want...almost ready to start faxing but still concerned about 3400 weight issues discussed in other threads. I have already committed to the tow vehicle we are getting

I also changed my profile so that my signature will automatically be put at the bottom of these notes, because I keep forgetting to put my name, which is NOT bardave, at the bottom of my notes.

David Maxwell
Pasadena TEXAS
2007 F350,SRW,6.0 Diesel,LB,Crew Cab (ordered 31 July 06)

jrgwdenner · 07-31-2006, 07:35 PM

You've got plenty of truck for a 3400, David. Several members pull it with an F250. Welcome to the forum.

Judy
http://spaces.msn.com/bamatravelers/
http://bamatravelers.blogspot.com
Traveling with Glen and Greta in our 2004 Dodge dually and Montana 3380 RL

David and Jo-Anna · 08-01-2006, 12:55 PM

Dave:

As one of the guys who initiated some of the threads on weight issues with the 3400, I'd be interested in knowing what options you've decided to go with on yours. And since I expect to follow in your footsteps in 5-6 months in contacting dealers for price quotes, I'd be very interested in hearing from you as to which dealers were willing to give you competitive price quotes in response to your faxes.

Good luck!!!

David and Jo-Anna Kikel

Montana Sky · 08-01-2006, 01:53 PM

David,
I hate to say this, but what Dave are you asking?? Maybe I should come up with a nick name so we can keep all the Dave's straight. LOL!!

2004 Chevy Silverado LT 2500HD CrewCab Duramax
2004 Montana 3400RL

bardave · 08-01-2006, 02:03 PM

David and Jo-Ann
I have read a number of your post... will keep you informed of what we do decide on model number and options......I know one of the first things I will do is get it weighed. my wife says I have 30 days to make up my mind on options, type of hitch, hitch box changes ... new truck will be here in mid Sept and we will order a 5th wheel a few days before truck arrival....giving me another 6 weeks to get the truck ready with sprayed in bed liner, hitch (dont know what to get just yet)and some other things I want done to the truck...plus they tell me to put at least 500 miles on the new truck before I think of towing anything.

hope I am not irritating the fella that wrote a posting (how to improve this forum) complaining about the personal notes....but there just may be others out there that have the same interest as the Kikels... so I am talking to everyone. I personally think this is the best forum Ive ever entered... and I have joined and participated in a few of them

David & Barbara Maxwell
Pasadena TEXAS
2007 F350,SRW,6.0 Diesel,LB,Crew Cab (ordered 31 July 06)

richfaa · 08-01-2006, 02:26 PM

Dave and Jo anna(to keep the daves stright..In solicitating bids for our 3400 I sent bids out to all the Montanas dealers Within 500 miles of here plus a few that I got off this forum 14 or 15 I think. It will give you a good idea of the MSVRP prices.As for the options.Montana has a bunch of nice options but I got into the weight numbers as you are so weight was a big consideration and we traded off nice to have options for weight. We did not get the high Gloss option, after much research I did not see the cost vs benifits of the high Gloss. We did not get the dual pane windows...The primary reason for the big 3400 was to winter and live in it for long periods of time in warm places. We did not get the fireplace..traded for easy to get at storage although it is a really nice option. We did not get the generator prep as it is for the Onan 5.5 gen and we did not want to spend the bucks or give up the front compartment space. We got every other option.For the weight we traded for we picked up the W/D combo and a freezer. That was our rational//yours will be ..well..yours..

Rich& Helen N.Ridgeville,Ohio.

F-350SD, Lariat, V-10,4:30 Diff, tow command Long bed, Crew Cab Dually, 06 3400RL
Mor-Ryde Pin Box

sreigle · 08-01-2006, 04:46 PM

The biggest benefits of the high gloss are 1) it looks great and 2) it won't yellow with age. I've not seen but a very few yellow Montanas so I'm not all that sure that's a big deal. 3) black streaks come off much easier although can still require some elbow grease. 4) higher resale value although I don't think you get the original cost back. The penalty is 200 more pounds. High gloss is high on my priority list so we have it on our tradein and on the new one on order. But keep in mind high gloss is mostly a personal preference item. It is not a "must have" other than for personal preference. In my opinion, anyhow. In our case we got the high gloss at dealer cost, which saved us more than $700 on the high gloss.

We also passed on the fireplace. I really, really like the fireplace in these units but we're going from a 3295RK which has the most storage to the 3400RL which has a lot of storage, but less than the 3295RK. We really need that storage space so the fireplace isn't going to happen for us.

We passed on the dual pane windows. Weight is one issue but the biggie for me is so many reports of problems with them leaking after bouncing down the road. I'm not sure passing them by is a good decision but that's the one we made.

See another Montana or Mountaineer on the road? Flash lights twice, it might be one of us!
Steve Reigle (pronounced Regal)
Fulltiming since 3/21/03
'03 3295RK
'05 Ford F250 SD Lariat CC SB 6.0L PSD/TS FX4 4x4

Our RV Travels (now Firefox-compatible)

steves · 08-02-2006, 02:47 AM

Bardave, let me assure you the F350 will handle your 3400 very well and require no additional after market equipment. My setup pulls and handles outstandingly and (except for the roughest of roads) I get no chucking or jerking with my standard articulating hitch. The 6.0 power band is awesome and coupled with the newer transmission tow/haul feature makes it a super (IMO) tow vehicle.

Good luck with both your new truck and the new Montana

Steve & Betty
2005 3400RL Montana
2006 F350 PSD SRW CC LB 4X4 King Ranch

CountryGuy · 08-02-2006, 03:20 AM

Bardave, David

As we have SOOOOOOOOOO many Davids, soooooooooooooo many Carols, soooooooooooooooooo many Steves, on the forum, we frequently use our USER NAMES in posts. Yours is Bardave. We mean no insult when we use it to address you. Not sure you were clear about that from your post that you are NOT Bardave. No insult meant by posting this, trying to be helpful, and know you will take it that way.

Carol (aka, Countryguy, but should be Mrs. Countryguy)

Cheers

Al & Carol Stevens Tipton, Mi.
Retired - Traveling with 4 Yorkies
Our Camping Rig History
Montana Improvements and Travel Reports
Our take on RV ownership, "Ya better be handy with your hands and handy with your cash."
2004 3295RK
2003 GMC 3500 Allison/8.1
PullRite 15.5K Super 5th
Line-X
JackRabbit tonneau cover
Bilstein shocks
Isolator Pin Box

Every day spent on earth is a blessing, every day spent in our Montana is a day blessed twice.

bardave · 08-02-2006, 03:34 AM

Al and Carol et al
Ok just thought maybe someone thought that was my name...but since I am new, just didnt pay attention to the "call signs"...sure is a nice way to keep track of all the same named people!!! ---- I changed my signature at the bottom.

but to keep this on topic.... does anyone really know what the 3400 MSRP is from the factory..
I have learned that dealers change the MSRP to what they think they can sell it for. I would imagine that every dealer pays the same for the same coach ...a varitaion being transportation cost. May be an unanswerable question and may be a useless bit of info anyway, becasue you are gonna pay if you want it....I just trying to establish a base price to negotiate from...

"Bardave"
David & Barbara Maxwell
Pasadena TEXAS
2007 F350,SRW,6.0 Diesel,LB,Crew Cab (ordered 31 July 06)

CountryGuy · 08-02-2006, 03:43 AM

David,

Have you tried our search engine. Some people seem to have trouble with it, so, hints are open up the time frame to say 6 months or longer, and click on ENTIRE MESSAGE and MATCH ANY WORDS. For me that is what works best.

There have been SEVERAL long and detailed discussions on your question and I am sure you would learn a lot by reading those, as well as responses you will get now.

I don't believe there is a MSRP from the factory. There is a sheet, from Keystone, that they provide to the dealers, but that price varies from dealer to dealer.

Several of the members who have just purchased new units did a email price quote thing, got prices from a lot of dealers.

Anyway, welcome to the forum, See you are from Texas, maybe you could come down to the RGV some winter and join us for a Rio Grande Valley Winter Texan get together. Would be glad to have ya!

Carol

steves · 08-02-2006, 04:19 AM

Good point on the user name in the signature. I'll change mine immediately - Thanks

Steve & Betty
2005 3400RL Montana
2006 F350 PSD SRW CC LB 4X4 King Ranch

bardave · 08-02-2006, 07:29 AM

learn something every day....
I tried the search engine...found some more information regarding my questions...

Ive been to the valley a few times...(when we were full timers in a motor home)
and where in the valley are you located....(guess I should try the search engine again...)
thanks for the info

"Bardave"
David & Barbara Maxwell
Pasadena TEXAS
2007 F350,SRW,6.0 Diesel,LB,Crew Cab (ordered 31 July 06)

CountryGuy · 08-02-2006, 07:46 AM

David, The search engine, OR go back to the home page, and take a gander at all the different forums within the MOC forum. Under CLUBS, you will find us, RGV Winter Texans!

Al and I kinda like Mission these days.

Glad the search engine gave ya some good reading.

Now, where were we, so we don't totally hijack this thread?? Sorry, I don't even know any more.

Carol

Montana Sky · 08-02-2006, 08:11 AM

This going to be off just a tad, as this is the 2006 Retail Price Sheet from Keystone. Not sure how much things jumped for 2007.

3400RL - $46,840
That price includes nothing. Add the mandatory options of "Value Package" - $2,595, and Moving to Montana" - $3,895, you now have a base price of $53,330. Dont forget ALL PRICES ARE F.O.B., and you still have to add the rest of your options you want added to the coach.

2004 Chevy Silverado LT 2500HD CrewCab Duramax
2004 Montana 3400RL

sreigle · 08-02-2006, 01:52 PM

Bardave, at rallies we often refer to each other by userid. That's how we know each other prior to meeting personally. It probably sounds really strange to outsiders.

See another Montana or Mountaineer on the road? Flash lights twice, it might be one of us!
Steve Reigle (pronounced Regal)
Fulltiming since 3/21/03
'03 3295RK
'05 Ford F250 SD Lariat CC SB 6.0L PSD/TS FX4 4x4

Our RV Travels (now Firefox-compatible)

bardave · 08-03-2006, 01:17 PM

I have attempted, by reading all the forum notes above, to figure out the price I should pay for a new 5ver and the cost to the dealer of that same Montana.

Earlier in this thread, there were numerous comments regarding percentages for the buyer to take off of so called MSRP. I have also learned that MSRP is a moving number that any RV dealer can put any price on to sell. I also learned that 18% off MSRP was an insult and that 25% to 30% and even 35% off MSRP is not uncommon.

It appears by reading every post in this thread that the average buyer discount off MSRP appears to around 28%. That average is simply a guess on my part by reading all comments. I didn’t do the math but it is close.

I also learned that a dealer markup of 40 to 45 % is not uncommon. I then did a search by putting MSRP in the search engine and found an on-going conversation regarding dealer markups. What I picked there is they do say a dealer routinely marks up 40% over what they paid.

For the sake of easy math, let’s assume a coach has a $60,000 MSRP. A 30% reduction in that price would be $42,000.

A markup of 40% by a dealer to arrive at MSRP and a 30% discount off MSRP does not equal a 10 % profit to a dealer. Mark up and mark down percentages work differently....

If the dealer has a $60,000 coach on the lot that he has marked up 40%, what do you suppose he paid for the coach? He paid $42858........ 42858 x .40% = $17143. Add $17143 to price he paid - $42858 - and one comes up with $60,001.

Therefore he will not sell that coach for a 30% mark down if he only marks it up 40%.
If he paid $42858 for the coach, he will not sell it for $42000.

The only conclusion I can come away from this math is that the dealer markup is much more than 40% or MSRP is very inflated or both in order to receive a 30% discount

I continue to guess at dealer pricing and what the proper offer to a dealer should be. I always feel shafted after dealing with car dealers regardless of the price I pay, and I would like to avoid this same feeling when buying the coach. I guess I will just low ball my offer to order a coach... and work up from there....this method takes time... because you must be willing to get up and leave the dealership and wait for them to counter. But what it really comes down to if I want the coach bad enough I will pay what it takes to get it.

"Bardave"
David & Barbara Maxwell
Pasadena TEXAS
2007 F350,SRW,6.0 Diesel,LB,Crew Cab (ordered 31 July 06)

Montana Sky · 08-03-2006, 02:47 PM

One could drive themselves crazy trying to find the best deal. A fella could spend weeks calling every dealer within a 1000 mile radius of him to get price quotes, and at the end of the week will have so much information infront of him he won't know where to begin. In my opinion, I feel at the end of the day, you (the buyer) has to be happy with the deal "you" made. Sure someone out there will have paid less, but if you are happy with "your" deal, then isn't that what counts in the end?? I say send out your faxes and get your quotes. Pick the dealer that gives you the best deal and service, then sit back and wait while your coach is being built and shipped to you.

2004 Chevy Silverado LT 2500HD CrewCab Duramax
2004 Montana 3400RL

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