Warranty service obligation??? - Montana Owners Club

dsprik · 01-20-2006, 03:54 PM

I was at the GR show tonight and I kind of got fired up a little. I just don't like someone telling me how and where I HAVE to spend MY money.

The issue came up during a conversation with a Keystone Everest salesman. He asked who I was buying from. I told him whoever gives me the best price. He asked who my closest dealer was. I told him my N. MI dealer, and he told me I should probably pay more just to buy from the dealer who will do the warranty work on it. I think this is where my blood pressure started to go up just a little. I told him that this is MY money and I do not DONATE. I am not paying $5,000 more just because I don't want to offend my dealer who may, or may not, do my warranty work.

Before anyone jumps in to defend dealers, let me say that I am very aware of the difficulties that dealers face when they have to do warranty work on units that they did not sell. With that said... I would say, "GROW UP! Get over it. It goes with the territory. If you are going to whine - get out of the business!"

Help me out here... does it say on the warranty papers that only the selling dealership must do any warranty work? Or does it say something along the lines of, "... ANY AUTHORIZED DEALER" (my caps)?

I'm sorry... I'm spending over $40K for something that I have be careful of where I take it if something breaks on it??? BECAUSE I didn't want to spend $5,000 more for exactly the same thing???

If I EVER got a HINT of a dealer whining about this, I will NEVER darken his service doorway at $94/hr when it comes time for that type of service. If I am ever refused service (by an AUTHORIZED DEALER), Montana, Keystone, and Thor would get certified letters on this dealer.

Cheryl and I will be traveling FT around the country, anyway. I expect Montana/Keystone to stand behind their products WHEREVER we are.

I'll spend my money, or not spend my money, as I see fit. Now if the dealer wants to pay for half of my Montana... I'm willing to talk.

I hope everyone reading this understands that I would never intentionally hurt a dealership, financially (I would do everything I could to get it back to the selling dealer - unless it is not financially feasable)... it's not my personality. I just really resist when someone tells me I have be obligated to a mandatory donation, so that I don't single-handedly financially devastate a "poor dealership.

PS> Hate to start a seperate topic, but this guy also "warned" me that Montana exaggerates their R values - when I asked him about the Everest R values. He knew I was planning on Montana. This kind of bothered me as I don't like someone slamming the way ANY other mfr does things. Plus I only wanted to find out what the R values on an Everest was... seemed like a simple, non-offensive question - which drew and immediately defensive reaction for some reason. This was BEFORE my soap box performance, so that shouldn't have factored in to his strange response.

OK, have at it... tell me what an unreasonable jerk I am. I just thought it was MY $40,000...

Montana Sky · 01-20-2006, 04:14 PM

Dave,
Sounds like that is the exact type of dealership you want to stay away from. Sales people like that makes me wonder what type of service people they have. My dealership has a huge sign posted over the service dept desk and it states, ORDER OF SERVICE APPOINTMENTS. 1). RV'S BOUGHT AT THIS DEALERSHIP 2). RV BRANDS SOLD HERE THAT ARE ON THE ROAD PASSING THROUGH 3). RV'S FROM OTHER DEALERSHIPS, AND RV BRANDS NOT SOLD AT THIS DEALERSHIP. I figure that is fair and honest from the start, another reason I really like doing business with my dealer.

rickfox · 01-20-2006, 04:16 PM

Dave,

All I know is that I have talked to a lot of dumb sales people - you know, the ones that have to go look at the model number - 3400Rl - to then let you know the trailer length is 34'. Those kind of guys I just walk away from. The salesman you talked to sounds like that type of guy.

dsprik · 01-20-2006, 04:20 PM

I went to the site. This is what it says:

As the owner it is your responsibility and obligation to return the recreational vehicle to an authorized dealer for any repairs and service that may be required. Your Keystone dealer is responsible for proper service before delivery and will have a continued interest in your satisfaction. Therefore, we recommend that warranty and maintenance services be performed by your Keystone Dealer.

I need to know where the emphasis is on this statement... Is it supposed to read:

Therefore, we recommend that warranty and maintenance services be performed by your Keystone Dealer.

OR

Therefore, we recommend that warranty and maintenance services be performed by your Keystone Dealer.

I understand that this is a "recommendation" only, in either case. As I said, I would not intentionally try to go around the selling dealer on warranty work, but I sure don't want the freedom to chose taken away from me.

dsprik · 01-20-2006, 04:26 PM

I understand this philosphy, but the guy just came across wrong. How do all these snowbirds/FTers in the RGV, Quartzite, Florida, Mexico, S. Cal, etc handle warranty issues?

Do they all walk around on egg shells, with their tails between their legs, when they have to ask a dealership for warranty service?

ols1932 · 01-20-2006, 04:32 PM

Dave,
My dealer, Ketelsen RV in Hiawatha, IA did all my warranty work and paved the way for me to get in touch with Keystone Customer Service for work that had to be done out of warranty (no cost to me). The same dealer told me, "If you have a problem on the road and need to go to another Keystone repair shop and they will not do warranty work for you, pay for it and let us know about it." That's what a good dealer does. And that's why I've purchased six RVs from them over the years and will buy my next one there also.

I'm with you. A person should never have to pay more from a dealer like you were quoted. I would certainly steer clear of him and advise everyone I meet to do the same.
Orv

dsprik · 01-20-2006, 04:56 PM

Also, under "Dealer Responsibilities" regarding warranty work:

4. Instruct the customer on how to receive local and out of town service on the vehicle and its separately warranted components, whether in or out of warranty
5. Service all Keystone RV Company products

I guess if I were to naively read this, I would assume that there would not be issues with having to pay cash anywhere, other than the selling dealer, and that I may have to wait 3 to 4 weeks to get warranty work done if I was out of town. I would not have that kind of situations on a auto warranty, so I wouldn't expect anything but the same type of response from an out of town dealer.

I would not have a problem with this if I knew (which I now do) in advance that this was a common practice in the RV warranty business. I have to believe, though, that I would have an "attitude attack" if I had warranty work done somewhere, and then the service mgr handed me an invoice and said, "That will be $2,327. How would you like to pay for that... cash or credit card?" I would not be able to properly describe the "wave" of feeling that would come over me.

richfaa · 01-21-2006, 12:38 AM

Here is what a very good friend and owner of a Rv dealership told me. In the RV business warranty work is not the prime source of income.The amount paid to the dealer for warranty work varies with the manufacturer.He is a Keystone dealer (not Montana) and he says Keystone is one of the best to deal with. The dealer would PREFER to service his own customers, those who purchased from him and MAY be repeat buyers.He does not look favorably upon the purchaser who bought from a dealer 100 miles away to save 500 dollars then comes to him for WARRANTY work although he is obligated to do it and will ( perhaps not with the enthusiasm as would a purchasing customer) Now fulltimers, longtimers, vacationers and those traveling far from home are a different story. Most dealers will go out of their way to get these folks taken care of.Now this applies to WARRANTY work only and I can understand the dealers point, Warranty work takes up bay space that can be used for other more profitable services. Example..My good friend and Keystone dealer does not handle Montana's. I have worked for him and purchased 3 campers from him.If he handled Montana's I would buy from him again. He knows I will buy from a dealer 90 miles from him.He told me he will do warranty work on my Montana as if I purchased from him if I brought it in(I won't) He will continue to do all my NON WARRANTY work. I really don't think that those of us who are on the road will have big problems with warranty work from a Keystone dealer (varies by dealer of course)

jrgwdenner · 01-21-2006, 01:37 AM

I think the important thing to remember is that, although we have a great product and a company that handles themselves quite well most of the time, the people who sell, service, and interact with customers are just that....HUMAN. They are not infallible, not always honest, and not always smart. When they're not, just write them off and go find one you like and can work with. Easier said than done, I know.

Montana_4944 · 01-21-2006, 02:19 AM

We have been traveling FT since July. Our dealer told us they will always put there customer first in line for service. We were glad to hear that at the time. We have had some warranty work done on the road and have never had a problem. One dealer didn't have time but we just called another one. We have also delt with repair places that don't sell RV's. They have been great to work with too. Just have to make sure they are approved to work on your rig. Dealers are really important because you will be talking to them alot, and you want a good relationship. Sometimes the dealership is as important as what you buy. As far as R value we have been in some very cold weather and stayed warm. Just be prepared to pay for Propane.

gkbutler · 01-21-2006, 04:09 AM

I look at it this way. Warranty work on your RV is like having warranty or recall work done on your automotible. The dealer will always service the vehicles sold by his/her dealership first. Years ago I had a 1977 Dodge Aspen bought brand new from a dealer ship in East Central Illinois. I was in the Army at the time and assigned to Ft. Hood. Got a recall notice from Dodge that I needed to take my vehicle to the nearest Dodge dealer to have the work done. I called the local dodge place in Killeen, TX to make an appointment and was flat out told they wouldn't do the work. I contacted Chrysler and received a very nice letter informing me that the local dealer DID NOT have to do the work because I had not bought the vehicle from them. Mind you this was almost thirty years ago. Fortunately the work was not of a type that was dangerous, I had to wait until I got back to Illinois to have the work done by the dealership I purchased the vehicle from.

Lots has changed over the last thirty years, but warranty/recall work on vehicles has pretty much stayed the same. First priority will always be to the current customers who have purchased from the specific dealership. Second will be customers who did not purchase from that dealership but have the same model and make of vehicle sold by the dealership, and last will be those people who do not have the type sold at the dealership, but have work that needs to be done.

To me it isn't enough of an issue to get my blood pressure up over.

Gonfishin · 01-21-2006, 05:52 AM

The flip side of the dealer refusing to do warranty work on a coach would be the warranty only lasts so long. After that any work that needs to be performed would be done at their shop labor rate. I can assure you that if a dealer doesn't want to do warranty work for me they certainly wouldn't get ANY work from me. I would also be inclined NOT to shop their store for further purchases of related items or a new coach for that matter.

Northstar · 01-21-2006, 06:12 AM

So far in our travels we nave not experienced any problems getting warranty work done away from home. Perhaps we have been lucky. The biggest problem I've found ia once the work has been identifed, then it needs to be approved by Keystone customer service center before the work can be accomplished. This can take several days. But that is the joy of rving

Karl · 01-21-2006, 06:16 AM

I wish to relate a real story...with a happy ending! While our Montana was in warranty, traveling to Branson Missouri from Wisconsin, I found that the brakes were working only intemittently...actually most of the time not working at all. When I stopped to check them, they would work..you could hear the magnets grabbing. Then on the road again, no trailer brakes. I carefully continued driving till I could find an RV dealer, any one! On the southwest side of St. Louis, I stopped at Byerly's at Eureka, MO (a large dealership) They do not sell Montanas, but they do sell other Keystone products. They were very busy, but I told them what my problem was. The service Mgr said that they were full up for the day, but since it seemed like maybe a bad controller, she would have someone look at it after lunch. (it was 11:45) BUT instead, a tech stopped BEFORE he went to lunch and checked. He thought it was the controller, so he changed it out immediately. No resolution. He then pulled my unit next to the bay he worked from and, GET THIS... He skipped his lunch and went right to work on my unit. Then after an hour he had still not identified the problem so he handed off his scheduled job to another tech and continued with mine. Finally after 3 1/2 hours, he found that the problem was a magnet wire that had worn off they insulation by rubbing against the inside of the drum, replaced the magnet, did other rewiring with heavier gauge wire, and got us on our way, even replacing our original cheap controller with a Prodigy. They got everything covered under warranty exept for the Prodigy, and for that they only charged me $79 as the difference between the two since he felt the original unit was not working quite right either.

When I asked about such super service on a unit that they don't even handle, the tech and service manager both said, "You may not have bought this unit here, but every service customer is a potential future sales customer! What an attitude!!!

Every time since when I go through there, I stop and look through to see if there is something I can purchase from them!

richfaa · 01-21-2006, 06:53 AM

It is good to hear stories like that.

Parrothead · 01-21-2006, 06:57 AM

Karl
Thanks for a great post. There are dealers out there like that and also repair shops. We have two really good repair shops here in our town that are not dealers. We use them if it doesn't involve warranty. They are however Dometic approved service shops and did a great job on our previous 5er when the frig got hit by lightning.
Happy trails....................

Montana_4221 · 01-21-2006, 07:03 AM

When shopping for our Montana Diana And I considered Going north to purchase. Service after the sale was the reason we chose to buy locally. I had some prior experience with the automotive buisness and knew that customers who bought from a dealership usually received better service.

I also ask an RV salesman point blank about service on units bought elsewhere and he gave me an honest answer confirming what I thought. They won't refuse to do work but common sense tells me that a service dept. will be more inclined to go out of their way to help if you purchased your rig from them. Of course in a questionable warranty situation I would certainly want the service dept. on my side.

We consider ourselves blessed to have gotten a great deal on the rig and the service dept is fantastic at our dealership.

dsprik · 01-21-2006, 01:28 PM

I would be much more grateful to a dealer who would go out of his way to get my business after the warranty period, by showing the right attitude DURING the warranty period, than I would to a self-righteous dealer who would not be smart enough to look past the end of his nose, and not have a good long range business plan that included repeat business. My experience is that word of mouth is a powerful advertising tool - both positive and negative.

There's good business, and bad business. I look for places that are good businesses. Don't get me wrong... I can be very loyal.

harleyrider · 01-21-2006, 08:58 PM

I bought from a dealer that is 3 miles away from us.I was lucky to find a 3 year old left over model.Bought it brand new mind you with a full warrenty.If you were to visit this dealership you would know WHy he still had this on his lot.The place is a complete mess.Trailers packed in so tight its unreal.In 2001 he ordered more Montanas then he could sell,and ours sliped threw the cracks.Each year it got pushed farther and farther back in his lot(never to be seen again)We got a GREAT price on it.Was the only way to could afford a NEW Montana.His service department consist of working on the units outside.To make a long story short was very disappointed in their service and went to another dealer in another state for warrenty work.They were more then happy to have our bussiness.Fixed all our problems in a timely fashion at NO cost to us.Haven`t had a bit of trouble since.

sreigle · 01-24-2006, 03:39 PM

Dave, I haven't yet read all the posts in this thread so I hope I'm not repeating someone else's statement.

First, the Everest and the Montana are both Keystone products. Close products. In fact, Jeff Rank is now over Everest, for one.

Second, Keystone twice has told us Everest and Montana have the same budget but Everest spends more on eye candy and Montana on structural features, like attic vents to vent moisture. The Everest does not have those vents, or didn't last time I looked.

Third, a couple of years ago we had quite a discussion in this forum about warranty work. As it turns out, Keystone's contract with their dealers does NOT require they perform warranty work on units they did not sell. However, we've had work done a couple of places around the country and never had a moment's trouble. Nor did anyone ask where we bought the unit. There were a couple of reports where members were put on low burner by the non-selling dealer and one who said you didn't buy it here and we won't fix it. But I think that's fairly rare. We've had no problem whatsoever getting service.

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