Montana VS Everest

[Wrenchtraveller]

quote:Originally posted by adelmoll

When we ordered our Montana someone really "in the know" told us if we were planning to full time in it we should save the money and extra weight of duel panes and use the day-night shades for what they were intended to do. We took his advise. So far we are happy with that dicision.

If you want to insinuate that I don't know what I am talking about after RVing for 30 years on Ski Hills with campers and doing constuctuion work in Northern Alberta where you get freezing weather almost any month of the year, that is your perogative.

People who have to rely on someone "in the know" generally don't know much on their own.

It is a simple choice to make. If you don't plan on cold weather use of your RV, you don't need them. If you are going to use your unit in below freezing weather like I must do, then the double pane windows will give you a more confortable unit to live in. Life is about choices and we all have different needs.

[dsprik]

quote:Originally posted by adelmoll

When we ordered our Montana someone really "in the know" told us if we were planning to full time in it we should save the money and extra weight of duel panes and use the day-night shades for what they were intended to do.

That would probably work in a short term situation as it traps air. However, if you were in extended cold weather, it doesn't sound too advantageous as you would never be able to see out your windows and I believe it would be darker inside than I would like all the time. But I can see where in a short term situation it would help.

I am going with dual panes and the extra weight as I am sure we will be spending some time in N MI in Nov/Dec and possibly early spring with our unit over the years. BTW we have already had the one storm last week... now we are preparing for our second of the season (8-12 inches tonight and tomorrow morning). Temps in the 20's though - not bad for here). Our Montana is going to have to able to suffer through some of these... unless we win PowerBall , allowing us to park the Monty in the south and fly back for the holidays and other special family occasions. We could also (non-PowerBall winner, and non-$3.00 diesel) unhook and make the the approx. 24 hr drive back north for a few weeks... Although you then are paying double duty for your Montana AND a hotel up north (WHAT??? STAY WITH THE RELATIVES??? ARE YOU NUTS!!! NO AMOUNT OF MONEY!!! )

Sorry... we're turning this back into another "Dual Pane" thread. Probably not as prolific as the "Remote" thread, but we may be pushing for a solid second (as long as we are farming out the "TV vs Weight" stuff to other, more "aggressive", forums out there).

*On Edit ~ Oh sure... put me on my own page... (is that a hint??? )

[dsprik]

Also, as a side note (since I now have my own page), isn't the Everest actually LESS interior space than, say... a 3400??? I believe it's shorter? Someone mentioned the recliner "downsizing"? As FTers, we need all the space we can get.

[sreigle]

Well, I'll guarantee if we ever buy another fifthwheel it will have dual-pane windows. As fulltimers, we spend Nov/Dec in the Kansas City area, with our kids and grandkids. I have felt the difference firsthand. Not with dual panes but with single panes and single panes covered with shrinkwrap plastic, which simulates dual panes to some degree. There is a MAJOR difference in inside comfort.

I don't know anything about the dunk test but have to assume that looks for air leaks. I don't see how it can tell you about the radiating of cold air off the windows. THAT is what we find to make it uncomfortable in here. Before wrapping our windows there was a significant draft off these single pane windows in really cold weather (subfreezing). The wrap cuts that down significantly.

The coldest we've been in was last winter when it got down to minus 5 F and didn't get above the teens for several days. There is no way we'd have managed to survive that with single pane windows with no help.

This is just my opinion but is based on three winters of living in this thing. Next time we'll definitely have the dual pane windows. If we were never in cold weather then we'd stay with single panes.

[jrgwdenner]

Those dual panes are nice in hot weather, too, during the time when we fire up the air conditioner. That's probably been said before in this thread but I haven't looked over all five pages.

[dsprik]

No it hasn't really been discussed, Judy. But do you think it would be worth the expense/weight for just the extra thermal protection in the summer? Maybe... not sure. I guess it would depend on how much extra $$$ one might spend on energy costs (A/C) vs having 2x panes in hot climates. Could be a huge difference (unless we go back to the "Dunk Tank" theory).

Where's our analysis people???

[rames14]

Steve -

Did you use the 3M plastic to simulate the dual panes? Where did you find large enough to cover complete window (like in back) or did you overlap? Inquiring minds want to know.

[jrgwdenner]

Since we live in the lower third of Alabama we are more concerned about the heat than the cold. Although we don't usually pay the electric bill when we camp, it may help seal out the wind (hot and cold) noise, and rain. Just speculation but dual panes sounded great to us. I think they came with our Artic package.

[dsprik]

That's another great point, Judy... Noise. I am a light sleeper. I used to tent camp occasionally. I don't remember having a problem sleeping then (although that was back in my heavy drinking days, before I quit). A few years ago Cheryl & I went to a State park here in MI with a popup camper. I tossed and turned every night... heard everything. Said I'd never go without a hard sided camper again. I know dual panes are supposed to be very good for noise suppression. Another good reason for me.

[sreigle]

quote:Originally posted by rames14

Steve -

Did you use the 3M plastic to simulate the dual panes? Where did you find large enough to cover complete window (like in back) or did you overlap? Inquiring minds want to know.

Ron, last year we used the 3M film on the inside. Same the year before. I got it at Walmart and it's one big sheet you cut to approximate size, apply, then trim. If I recall, one kit was enough to do all the windows although I may have used a little from a second kit since I do have some left over. One kit is around $16 and change, at most.

This year we decided to go with the outdoor film so I would not have to remove the valances to install it. I'm afraid a third removal and reinstall of the valances would loosen the hold the screws have. I removed the valances just to install the film and then reinstalled them.

I saw the outdoor 3M film at Walmart in Carson City when we were there for the rally but didn't buy it at that time. I cannot find it in any Walmart in the Kansas City area. They have the indoor, not the outdoor. Same for Home Depot and Lowe's. I did find outside film at an Ace Hardware store. But it is not 3M. The kit was $13. It comes with everything you need and is one huge sheet of film. The outdoor does not shrink, you apply the tape then the film and stretch it. You can remove it from the tape to stretch it if needed. One kit did all but two windows. Instead of buying a second kit I bought more tape at Walmart and also a roll of 4-mil film. That film is much thicker than in the outdoor kit and it does not come back off the tape so you have to get it right the first time or you have to retape for the second try. It wasn't difficult. I had plenty left so also did the outside of our screen door. We can now leave the door open on a sunny day and not have cold air blowing into the coach. Nice.

We've had some very windy days and nights and some pretty hard rain. The film is all still in place so I am satisfied this is a good approach. When we head south in January we'll see how it holds up on the road.

[Montana Sky]

Hey Steve,
If it would not be too much trouble could you post a picture of the outdoor film on your coach. I would really like to see how you did it. Thanks!

[jpkelpe]

how is it holding up in your 10 inches of snow you got yesterday?

[Wrenchtraveller]

Here's another difference between the Montana and the Everest.
The Montanas have a step built into the inside of the Coach. So does Cambridge.
The Everest and Cougar have the flush floor entrance.

Advantages of the indoor step are it lowers the entrance and puts your stairs closer to the ground. This also lowers your door and gives your awning more clearance. Keystone thinks enough of this design to put in in their top line Cambridge.

The only disadvantage to this is it makes your outside stairs hang lower than the flush floor entrance design. This is not a problem with models that have the door ahead of the wheels but models like my 2955RL end up with the stairs hanging down at the rear of the trailer where they could bottom out in some conditions like Ferry ramps. I live on Vancouver Island and our ferries are large boats that handle over 500 vehicles but on really low tides it might be possible for the low hanging stairs on my Montana to be damaged so when I go on the Ferry, I remove my stairs just in case. Four 3/8" bolts and 5 minutes of effort.

Over all I think the Montana entrance is more user friendly than the Everest.

[sreigle]

Dave, it's dark at the moment. Remind me if I don't get you a picture in the next few days.

Paul and Jan, I'm not sure if your question is for me but will assume it is. We got a total of 12 inches. We also got some very strong winds in a prior non-snow storm. I think the wind was around 60 mph + if I remember correctly. We also had a hard, driving rain on another day. The film has held up beautifully. All still fully attached and doing the job. I'm very pleased with it.

For those wondering how the awning toppers are holding up. We had 12 inches of snow on there plus big chunks of ice that fell off the roof onto the awnings when it started to thaw. The toppers were clear down to the roof of the slides. It's all melted now and the toppers are back in their taut position, nonetheless for wear.

However, I had to break a promise I made to myself when we sold the house, the snowblower, and the snow shovels. I swore I'd never touch another snow shove. But I had to borrow a snow shovel from the park manager and shoveled out our driveway and a path to and around the Montana. Thankfully it was a light, fluffy, dry snow. Still 12 inches of it, however. I ONLY shoveled it because I was shamed into it. All our neighbors were doing it. Plus, one of our neighbors, who is about to have back surgery, started to shovel our drive and Vicki saw and told him to stop, that I could do it. Thanks, honey.

[Dancyn]

I have to agree with Steve...when we buy a new unit, it will have double pane windows. The weight issue is moot when it comes to the difference in comfort in the 5th wheel.

As for the Everest vs Montana, this is just observation from what I have seen here in the resort. One resident traded his 3295RK for a new quad slide Everest. They delivered it, and it has been frozen up since the first night. They are going to take it into the dealership to thaw it out. He never had a problem with the Montana freezing.

Another resident bought a new Everest last summer. It had 28 items on their list to fix/repair before it left the dealership. (Would I buy a new rig with 28 things wrong with it? I don't think so!) They have been battling with getting the repairs done ever since they bought it. They even took it to the Cougar factory in Pendleton, OR, for some help. They are still not satisfied. The slides don't seal, the kitchen floor keeps coming up, they can't have the electric blanket and the coffee maker on at the same time, and on and on. I know there are just some units out there that don't get built quite right, but I have never had a Montana owner tell me stories like this Everest owner can.