BP Oil #&$@^**(%$# - Page 2 - Montana Owners Club

richfaa · 10-31-2005, 12:53 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by ols1932

For those of you on Social Security, how much do you want to bet that you won't see the increase in the cost of gas, diesel fuel, propane, and home heating oil in your cost of living increase in January 2006?

We are glad that we do not have to live on a SS check . I don't get much because I am a retired Federal employee and although I earned SS I can't draw all of it..called double dipping.We earned it, paid into it but can't get it...hummmmm. Thank God we are a retired Fed, although we paid a great deal into the retirement system we get a great deal more out of it.Think the SS COL this year will be 4.2%..does that cover everything???

Parrothead · 10-31-2005, 02:13 PM

Rich
Where did you get the 4.2% figure?
Happy trails................

firetrucker · 10-31-2005, 02:44 PM

Sue,

The COL for 2006 was announced several weeks ago, and is 4.1%. Here's an excerpt from an article about it(search for social security col 2006):

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- "Monthly Social Security income will increase 4.1%, or $39 on average, to reflect an increase in the cost of living over the last year, the federal government said Friday. Beneficiaries will start receiving the new rate in January.

Bob

Trailer Trash 2 · 10-31-2005, 02:45 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Sunshine

Here in central Oregon fuel prices are always higher than anywhere else, and diesel continues to be higher than regular gas. Go figure!! I think whatever the public does it's not going to change things. Certain people want all of us to drive those small cars, so they blame SUV's, pickups, etc. for using so much fuel. News flash!! Even if there were no large vehicles they would still be gouging us!

Sunshine I dont know how much you pay in Oregon and I think california has the higest prices around we are paying as of Sunday at a shell station $ 3.259 per gal for fuel 30 to 40 cents more than regular gas. but I dont care any more, you will pay or you'll stay.

TT2

Parrothead · 10-31-2005, 05:44 PM

Thanks Bob. I found it on the SS web also. Somehow I missed that announcement. Medicare is only going up $10.50 so almost everyone will get a raise. Helps us plus my state retirement will go up 2% in May (it is a set amount guaranteed). Will buy a tank or two of diesel!
Happy trails...................

Parrothead · 10-31-2005, 05:45 PM

Don,
Come out to Hemet. Our Shell stations went down to $2.99 last week.
Happy trails.....................

toolmanroy · 10-31-2005, 06:25 PM

We found one station this weekend, Arco in Eagle Point, OR at $2.99 for diesel and $2.69 for regular. Most diesel is still $3.09, but that is down from $3.39 of a few weeks ago.

old turbo · 11-01-2005, 12:39 AM

The problem we have with fuel prices is the high profit oil companies have not built a new refinery in thirty years, The US now has more cars and trucks on the road. Why no new refineries? No one wants it in their backyard. The environmental wackos are fighting against new refineries and drilling. These folks always crack me up ,they all seem to drive cars and take plane trips to protest.Back in the late 1970 we still had a lot of local refineries, ones not owened by the big oil companies.They would always sell their fuel cheaper than the big guys. That was Total uo here in Michigan,you would see total stations all over the state with cheaper fuel prices. Then an Oil holding company by the name of Shamrock oil which at this time was the number four oil company it did not refine,or sell fuel products,it was a holding company, bought out Total, and all the little refineries in the US and closed them.One year later Shamrock went out of business.I have called my representatives in Washington and complained about all this but you know big oil has a hand in their pockets,so remember these guys at election time.

richfaa · 11-01-2005, 02:08 AM

I am soooo excited about the 4.1% COl raise..medicare increased 10.50..my BC/BS increased 25.00 per month Our Car insurance increased 120.00 per year , our home owners increased by 156.00 per year, out property tax increased by 80.00 per year. Natural gas prices, Fuel prices, Electric bill,Can't think of anything that decreased..other than our spendable income.Oh My federal pension will alo increase by the same 4.1% so we think we will maybe break break even..maybe..

dsprik · 11-01-2005, 04:46 AM

I might point out that we may need take a look at who OWNS these oil companies. Many complain on the basis of Americans giving the shaft to other Americans. Citgo is wholly owned by Venezuela/Chavez (now there's someone who really cares about the U.S.). Most other majors have a large share being owned by other countries. I'm sure everyone knows that BP stands for British Petroleum??? Think there might be any Middle East/Saudi money in these oil companies??? Just a thought.

houseof many dogs · 11-01-2005, 02:45 PM

Many of the current big oil companies are remembered as the "seven sisters" - before OPEC. They included Royal Dutch Shell, British Petroleum, Standard Oil, Getty Oil and others I can't recall. They formed ARABCO and found the middle east oil. Fast forward to today - same players, different game. Control the refining and all the crude in the world doesn't mean a thing. We need to refine and distribute the stuff. Problem is, the US is so vast, only the very powerful have the means to set up the networks it requires to get the product out.
How does one solve that problem?

Virgil · 11-02-2005, 04:42 AM

I work for an oil company and I do have some stock in the company. I pay the same for gas and diesel as everyone else. The rate of consumption globally is approaching and will very soon exceed the rate of new discoveries. Oil and natural gas is a finite resource. I don't expect gas and diesel prices to drop significantly again. I say this on my own and certainly not as a representative of the oilfield. Windfall tax was tried in the 80's and that led to approximately 800,000 people losing jobs in the oilfield. That held no benefit for those workers or for the economy either. I am not defending the oil companies. I just don't think it is going to improve significantly unless someone discovers a new middle east type reserve. JMHO.

FredG · 11-02-2005, 05:04 AM

I agree that the rate of consumption is going to exceed the rate of new discoveries in the near future (based ont he current rate of discovery). I also think that a Windfall tax is not appropriate. For the most part, I think government should stay out of business (and vice versa). I also think the lack of refineries is caused by 3 major factors:
1 - Government regulations that make it nearly impossible to build a new refinery
2 - NIMBY - Not In My Back Yard syndrome
3 - Oil companies subscribing to the "just-in-time" supply strategy. There is no excess capacity and no storage of gas surpluses to handle any surge demands or refinery outages.

However, seeing that every gas station, regardless of brand has prices within cents of each other, along with the fact that the oil companies have been showing not just record profits, but record increases in net profit year over year, I think the government should step in on the basis of price fixing and price gouging.

I just can't support the oil companies when they show yearly net profit increases of between 90% and 294%. Increases of this amount are usually only seen in startup companies or companies that have entered a completely new market...neither of which the oil companies fall into. Heck, I wish my business would have net profit increases near the bottom end of the scale!

Fred

Virgil · 11-02-2005, 05:05 AM

Good comments House and others about the refineries, pipelines, drilling location sites, etc. Everyone wants the benefits of cheap oil, "but not in my backyard". From my experience, oil companies now days are extremely environmentally aware and committed. We are living with archaic laws enacted 30 and 40 years ago. The process of getting approval can take several years of hearings and meetings to gain permission to drill or say build a refinery especially near sensitive areas. Oil companies are inclined to say the heck that and go international.

richfaa · 11-02-2005, 05:32 AM

Note that OPEC consist of 11 oil producing nations that supply @ 40% of the worlds oil..that means that 60% is produced elsewhere.OPEC has NO direct control of the price of a barrel of oil here in the USA.OPEC does set a basket index for oil prices. it sets at @53.00 per barrel now.OPEC will increase or decrease the SUPPLY of oil produced depending upon the traded price of oil thereby controlling indirectly the price of oil..The price of a barrel of oil is set every day, here in the good old USA by the Commodities market which is in New York , City, USA and nowhere near any OPEC nation. When the OPEC nations are producing at capacity OPEC is ineffective. Note that OPEC offered millions of barrels of oil to the market and there were NO takers.Google "Commodities" and see how and why oil prices are high...We all dance around the answer..If somehow we could INFLUENCE the price of a barrel of oil ..how can we do that???..have a large influence in the commodities market.Lets see..who buys oil on the commodities in large quantities..hummm//could it be the OIL companies. We don't think that they would deliberately manipulate the price of oil do we..If they did they would be making HUGE profits...We have met the enemy...and he is us...

Virgil · 11-02-2005, 07:25 AM

The oil that OPEC (Saudi) offered is heavy sour crude that is difficult to process and refine. There really is very little XS quality oil capacity in OPEC. From what I hear, OPEC is very near capacity.

richfaa · 11-02-2005, 12:06 PM

Correct Virgal..The good stuff is right here in Ohio and PA..just not enough of it.The point is the first alibi we heard was that ..there is a shortage of oil..After everyone upped their production, the President released the oil reserves as did other countries and there were few takers.The next alibi was .oh it was not a shortage of oil it's a shortage of refineries..got plenty of oil..jusr can't refine it into gas. But wait a min..where is the shortage of Gas..Where are the long lines..where are the service stations that are out of gas and can't get any because ..there is a SHORTAGE.. I pass by a BP bulk facility twice day..all is normanl there.The Sheetz truck is at the same stations at the same time every day. The only shortage was consumers panic buying because The oil companies told us there was a shortage.They were not short the next day..And yes OPEC nations do pump lower grade oil that is expensive to refine..but..they only produce 40% ..who are the countries that produce the other 60% and if it is better oil it is LESS expensive to refine..There is something very wrong with the whole picture....We do not work for any oil company but we DO have some oil company stock and we just made a ton of $...but we are NOT happy campers..and we are selling while it is super high because the bubble will burst. Lets change the subject and get back to campers..I just made myself angry...

Chaser · 11-02-2005, 02:45 PM

Wellllllllllllll..we are on an Electric Co-Op in Central Oregon and because we have all electic and use AC, heat our 5th wheel in the Winter 9when we are home), and so on - we chose a budgeted or rounded monthly sum that goes year around- no matter the amount of electicity used - I'm glad I'm living in the 5th Wheel this Winter - we jut got our notice for the new amount after the annual usage review - it went to over $200 a month - and we aren't there - (it may go back down some next review, because of that fact, but I'm not counting on it)...we're on disability and social security - but the system is not going to get me down at this retirement stage when I can finally go someplace (besides the local campground), even if I sit there for several months - and don't sightsee that much - I am someplace different, looking at other's perspectives, and I am Thankful I can do that.....alternatives are tents and caves or huts on the sand.....don't know about all of you, but my Montana is good and I'm willing to pay a fair price (catch the phrasing please) to use it....$3.45 a gallon in Tonapah is a bit much over fair - but.........if it wasn't fuel - what would be in it's place - and we've gone through this before more than once....we all do what we have to to enjoy the privilege of traveling when and where we want, and I for one appreciate the ability to do so, we could be sitting at home wondering how the neighbor gets away with not sitting at home.

Chaser
MOC #2310

Parrothead · 11-02-2005, 04:14 PM

Shell station by us just went down again to $2.93. 2 weeks ago it was 3.59. Then 3.55, then 2.99. I hope it keeps up.
Happy trails..................

Thunderman · 11-03-2005, 05:05 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Virgil

I work for an oil company and I do have some stock in the company. I pay the same for gas and diesel as everyone else. The rate of consumption globally is approaching and will very soon exceed the rate of new discoveries. Oil and natural gas is a finite resource. I don't expect gas and diesel prices to drop significantly again. I say this on my own and certainly not as a representative of the oilfield. Windfall tax was tried in the 80's and that led to approximately 800,000 people losing jobs in the oilfield. That held no benefit for those workers or for the economy either. I am not defending the oil companies. I just don't think it is going to improve significantly unless someone discovers a new middle east type reserve. JMHO.

Virgil, why did those 800,000 people lose jobs in the oil industry in the 80's? What was the reaction of the oil companies to the Windfall tax?

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