D3500 for 3400? - Montana Owners Club

sgtpp214 · 06-29-2010, 04:30 AM

I have been rebuffed by the DW for the last year to move up to a 3400. We were at the MI Good Sam Samboree when we went with friends that were looking at getting 3400. The DW finally looked at a 3400 and fell in love with it. Lo and behold she now wants to move up. My main concern is the weight and will our 04 D3500 handle it. I note that most of the MOCers that have 3400's pull with either a 3/4 T or a one T, most with SWR.

What would opinions be about the D3500 SWR and the 3400RL?

Thanks for you input.

H. John Kohl · 06-29-2010, 04:54 AM

The honest answer is to do your weight calculations on the Tow Vehicle(TV) and then make your call.

ONERUNNING · 06-29-2010, 05:03 AM

Dave, I don't think you would have any trouble pulling it at all. I'm pulling my 3400RL with a 3/4 Ton Chevy Duramax/Allison SWR, and it pulls great. Hardly know it's back there. But, I do recommend that you get the Mor/ryde pin box system on the 3400RL. I didn't and now wish I had it. It's not a major thing, but it does help with a smoother ride for the Monty on harsh roads, and no more clunking sounds during stops and starts.
Hope this helps you some. I'm sure some of the others will be along with their views. Good Luck.....Joe

CamillaMichael · 06-29-2010, 05:16 AM

We pull our 3400 with a Ford F350 SRW and have not had any problems...I know you did not ask for input on Fords, but to address the SRW part, we do just fine. As H.JohnKohl states, get the numbers on your truck before you make your final decision...make sure your numbers are for your specific truck. I also agree with ONERUNNING, the Mor/ryde pin box is the way to go...if you have already ordered without that option, I do not believe it is not a big deal to add after your rig comes in...maybe you can work something out with your dealer to get it added???? Hope it all works out for you.

exav8tr · 06-29-2010, 05:36 AM

Dave, Keep in mind that the 3400 can have as much as 3000lbs pin weight, as mine does and I don't have a lot in the basement or forward hatches. That was the figure I was given at the Keystone Service Center last fall. Don't know anything about Dodge weights so can't help you there. Advice as above, check the capabilities of your truck, then decide. Good Luck with the new unit.....We love our 3400 and plan on keeping it for some time.......I do like the new hickories though.....

RickW · 06-29-2010, 09:28 AM

The best advise is check your weights and do what you are then comfortable with.

We love our 3400RL and personally felt it was too much trailer (the numbers confirm this) for our Ford F250. We chose a different direction than most would go (Volvo 780 http://www.wyliephotos.com/Volvo780/LakeYellowstone.jpg ) but it works well for us. Most importantly we have stopping power even if the brake controller fails (this has happened to us).

sgtpp214 · 06-29-2010, 11:26 AM

The day turned into a real bummer. I finally found a site that I got my weight limits and the 3400 is now out of the question at this time.

Can't afford it and a new truck.

Found the info and the GVWR is 9,900 lbs and the trailer limit is 13,100 lbs.

With the 3400 starting out at a dry weight of 12,540 that wouldn'leave much room to carry anything. On investigation I have found that most of those pulling the 3400 with 250's, 2500's and 350's and 3500's are exceeding the manufactures recommended weight limits. I wouldn't feel comfortable exceeding the ratings with a 3400. If I carrying firewood I already exceed GVWR by 500 lbs Thanks for all you responses.

Maybe I'll buy a powerball ticket and get lucky.

richfaa · 06-29-2010, 01:58 PM

Dave,,, Good work. You did the homework and found out the truth. The pin weight on our 06 3400 as weighed at the fall rally Sept 09 is 2915Lbs. We pull with a F-350 dually.

TLightning · 06-29-2010, 02:52 PM

Ignore the "pulls great" posts from anybody except those with a dually. The new 3400s GW is 16k, way too much for any SRW vehicle to be within limits.

CamillaMichael · 06-30-2010, 11:22 AM

TLightning's comments sound pretty definitive...anyway, our SRW truck still pulls great. Relative to the pin weight, we just weighed our 3400 this morning in prep for a trip and the pin weight was 2800 and change...well within our truck's specs. It is more important to ensure your specific truck's specs meet your needs. For example, we almost purchased a Ford F350 DRW truck a couple of years ago...it only had the small V8 engine. With that combo, (DRW or not), we would have been good for a pop-up, but not a Montana fifth wheel. The devil is always in the details...even the number of tires on the back of your truck.

richfaa · 06-30-2010, 02:08 PM

Example..Our 08 Ford F-350 DUALLY has a GVWR of 13K. The truck ready to tow, two people, one bird, full fuel and "stuff is 9215lbs as weighed at the fall rally. The cargo capacity of the truck is 4268 lbs. Subtract the weight of the truck from the GVWR and we get the real Cargo capacity of 3785 lbs..not the 4268 stated on the door. The pin weight of our 3400 was 2915 as weighed at the fall rally. So real CC of 3785 less the real pin weight of 2915 as that weight is in the truck leaves us 870 lbs within specs. All these numbers are on the door of the truck and the real weights must be known.

Do the proper math on your specific truck and the numbers will not lie.

I know someone will say 13K on the truck..how did you do that..... Camper package on the rear..snowplow package on the front rear axles 9K front axle 6K.. Wait.. That's more than 13K..
Sure is..that means rear aaxle shall not exceed 9K front shall not exceed 6K total shall not exceed 13K.... It all in the numbers...

Oh don't forget the tire load ratings...more numbers..

TLightning · 06-30-2010, 02:30 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by CamillaMichael

TLightning's comments sound pretty definitive...anyway, our SRW truck still pulls great. Relative to the pin weight, we just weighed our 3400 this morning in prep for a trip and the pin weight was 2800 and change...well within our truck's specs. It is more important to ensure your specific truck's specs meet your needs. For example, we almost purchased a Ford F350 DRW truck a couple of years ago...it only had the small V8 engine. With that combo, (DRW or not), we would have been good for a pop-up, but not a Montana fifth wheel. The devil is always in the details...even the number of tires on the back of your truck.

My "pulls great" comment was intended for those that do not know that these diesel trucks all come with the same drive trains, so pulling is not the issue. As Richfaa noted above, you have to get the numbers off the stickers and do the numbers for your vehicle. If your SRW F350 is within the manufacturer's limits, it is the exception rather than the rule. The sticker most often ignored is the Tire and Loading Information sticker...on most Fords it's on the bottom of the inside of the driver's side door frame. I've seen 3/4 ton PSDs with cargo capacities of less than 1,900, and the SRW F350 does not add that much capacity. Ford's have very high GVWRs, but are very heavy trucks.

sgtpp214 · 07-02-2010, 03:14 AM

Salesperson, "Your truck will have no problem pulling the trailer." Thought I would update you all and the above quote about summarizes it. When I left a msg with the salesperson she called to sympathize with me. I told her the GVWR for my D3500 was 9900# and the max trailer weight was 13,100# she understood.

Later she called back and said her boss has a D3500 and any Dodge 1-ton should have no problem towing any Montana. According to her he said the 9900# figure was what I could carry above and beyond the weight of the truck and that the total trailer weight was 17,000#. She said that he said check it out at trailerlife.com which I did and none of the Dodge SRW's came close to his figures. I sure hope she misunderstood him and gave me wrong information.

I am going to my Dodge dealer and get the figures and I will certainly send her those figures. I had only spoken to her on the phone and was going to travel the 242 miles to see the 3400, but this sure gives me second thoughts about dealing with this dealership despite the great price they quoted.

Oh well the 2980 has served us well and will continue to serve us until I win the Powerball. Heading home today to mow lawn and get mail read before we head out again in two weeks.

Safe travels everyone.

CamillaMichael · 07-02-2010, 12:27 PM

SGTPP214, the weight variables seem to be endless. I would suggest you talk with someone who knows Dodge, very well. The GVWR, I believe, refers to the weight of your truck with full tank of fuel, passengers, and payload. To really know what your payload capacity is, I would recommend weighing your truck with your normal "passenger list" and a full tank of fuel. Then subtract that number from what your Dodge expert tells you is your GVWR. This end figure is what you have to work with in terms of your pin weight...as others have pointed out, even though the number on the Montana web site is slightly over 2100 lbs, when loaded, the 3400's pin is closer to the 2800-2900 lb range. The next number your Dodge expert can give to you is your truck's GCWR...this is the TOTAL number your truck can handle. It will include the actual weight of your truck with a full tank of fuel, passengers, and the fifth wheel's actual weight (not what is shown as the manufacturer's shipping weight). A relatively accurate and easy way to get the pin weight and the rest of the fifth wheel's weight carried on its axles is to weigh your truck separately (hold those numbers) and then to weigh the entire rig together. Some simple math at that point will tell you if you are within specs (if not, you would need to reduce weight). Of course, your dealer might not be willing to let you haul the unit off the lot to get it weighed. So, the next best thing is after weighing your truck as stated, confirm that your truck's GCWR would allow for the total weight of the fifth wheel, as stated by the manufacturer. Remember, there are weak links throughout the weighing process...tires on both the TV and RV; axles on both TV and RV; and gross weights on both TV an RV. Your rolling weights cannot exceed any of these...if they do, nothing might happen, or more likely, you will face a disaster somewhere along your trip. At least you are taking an intelligent approach to the matter and are asking all of the right questions...and as you have found, sometimes you just have to get a second opinion. Good luck.

richfaa · 07-03-2010, 04:46 AM

These numbers are not all that hard to figure out except many folks do not understand them including most dealers. Even my own dealer. salesman had no clue.
Mike said it well. The GVWR is the total weight of the truck and everything in it. Ours is 13K as stated on the door sticker
That includes the weight of the truck, people and animals in it, fuel, hitch, camper stuff. The stuff in the glove box, under the seat,every single thing IN the truck Including the pin weight of the camper as that is IN the truck. The GVWR is what you can put IN the truck not what you can pull WITH the truck. GCWR is the combined weight of the truck and everything in it Plus the weight of the camper and everything in it. In our case 23,500lbs. You MUST actually weigh everything to know what the numbers are and if you are within specs. As I posted above..The real weight of my Ford GVWR 13K was 9215 lbs allowing me 3785lbs for pin weight and a few cases of brew. You have got to assume that 95% of the folks you will talk to have no clue as to how to come to the proper numbers.

I am no genius it took me a long time and many questions to figure out the numbers game. Actually the "weight Police"(Highway patrol) here in Ohio were very helpful. (commercial driver)

sreigle · 07-03-2010, 06:34 AM

Well, I guess you can "ignore" all of us who "pulls great" with our single rear wheel 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. After all, I've only towed a 2003 3295RK with pinweight of 3300 lbs and this 2007 3400RL with 2900 lbs of pinweight and total scaled weight of 15,610 lbs about 175,000 miles over the past 7+ years. I've still not experienced any towing instability nor had a single weight related failure on the truck, either my Fords or my Dodge. Not even once. And I'm still looking for someone, anyone, to show me a single article about a failure or accident due to being a reasonable amount over the ratings. I wouldn't go any heavier than we are. I know the trucks are tested to well above their ratings but I do not know exactly how much. A dually doesn't work for us. Just doesn't fit the things we like to do. But if you have any qualms about going over the ratings a little, then you surely should not do it. I just wanted to point out that not all of us believe a dually is required although I will agree there is a point at which I'd not do it. But this Montana is not at that point.

My opinion.

richfaa · 07-03-2010, 11:10 AM

As Tom Said..."these diesel trucks all come with the same drive trains, so pulling is not the issue' and it is not. Understanding how the spec's are figured and what the spec's mean was the point. Most folks do not fully understand. Once you do understand what one does with that knowledge is their choice. Note that as with Commercial drivers there is no Central data collection point to categorize Rv accidents. We can find out how many Commercial drivers were overweight last year, how many accidents involving Commercial drivers, etc but there is no data collected for RV drivers..

sreigle · 07-03-2010, 01:18 PM

My earlier comments came across a bit more harsh than I intended. I just get irritated when someone says to ignore everyone else who doesn't agree with him. I happen to believe it's important to hear all opinions, weigh all information, and thus make an informed decision.

I know there is no database of private accidents but neither have I ever seen anything about such an accident in any media of any type, printed or online. Nor have I been able to come up with any using google nor have I ever had a friend tell me of one. Even with all the blowouts we've had, never have we ever felt anything in the truck. We have heard the tire blow and this last time I was looking at the mirror and saw the body parts fly across the freeway. But there was nothing in the handling of the truck to indicate a problem. In other words, there was no stability issue with the single rear wheel, towing or during a blowout.

I was just trying to provide my own personal experience for consideration. I just don't agree that any Montana (non-Big Sky) requires a dually for real world towing unless one wants to stay within the specs. Then, of course, many would require the dually. The Big Sky might be a different story for me. I'd have to see what our actual weight was and then make that decision.

And, with that, the original poster should take my comments only as an opinion and experience from one person and make his/her own decision.

richfaa · 07-03-2010, 05:20 PM

"I just don't agree that any Montana (non-Big Sky) requires a dually for real world towing unless one wants to stay within the specs. " That Steve is exactly the point and I agree 100%. There is no doubt in my mind that this big ole Ford F-350 Dually will pull 20K and I have done it. Not all that far but it.....pulled it fine. I try not to come across as telling everyone they must have a 1 ton dually to pull a Montana but I am a "specification and standards " person and I do try to explain to folks who ask the question how to figure out the spec's for their truck and camper.When Helen and I sold these things we realized that most of the buyers had no clue as to ratings and spec's.

The new 3400 has a GVWR of 16,300lbs.My Ford Dually has a tow rating of 15,300 lbs. I won't buy a new camper. It is just me.....

exav8tr · 07-03-2010, 06:41 PM

Seems like the RV makers are in cahoots with the truck makers. RV makers build a heavier RV, then the truck people produce a bigger truck, next year the cycle goes on, ad infinitum.......That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Surely I jest!!!!

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