Mor/Ryde X Factor on 2014 3150RL

[jlb27537]

Hello Group,

After sending pictures and measurements of the spring hangers to Keystone after the selling dealer installed Mor/Ryde X Factor braces Keystone now tells me:

The frame warranty has been voided since I modified the frame.

Guess it Ok now to install a trailer hitch.......

[DQDick]

I haven't heard of X factor being an issue before this?

[Irlpguy]

We see instances of Keystone stepping up to the plate and repairing items long off warranty, how they can wiggle out of looking after this problem by saying you/dealer modified the "Frame" by installing the Mor/Ryde is beyond me. The spring shackles were the wrong ones, likely shipped in error from Dexter with the axles and spring assy. Regardless they were not correct when welded onto the frame before you took ownership, someone has to take responsibility for that fact.

This is not a good example of looking after a customer and his problem. I would also be contacting Lippert and Dexter, surely they can't all pass the buck.

[jlb27537]

Wrong,

I contacted Dexter to get the measurements from them. They told me they only supplied the axles and springs, not the hangers. Not their problem. They did say the hangers that Lippert installed were not in their specs.

I contacted Lippert, provided pictures and measurements and they refereed me back to Keystone. All warranty claims has to go back thru Keystone.

Keystone first said I did not have a warrantable issue but today changed that position to I had voided my frame warranty by modifying my frame.

You can not talk to anyone except some girls in customer service. When you ask to talk to someone in technical service or such, no way. So it is.

Jim

[oldelmer1]

Here is a name of someone in Keystone Customer relations:

Cherie Schmucker
Keystone RV
Customer Relations Specialist
P.O. Box 2000
Goshen IN, 46527
1-866-425-4369


Also, here is the District Sales Manager, he might be able to point you to the right person:

Mark Krol
District Sales Manager
Office: 574-535-2124
Cell: 574-596-7138
Email: krolm@keystonerv.com

Hope someone can get you some help....

[gregh9999]

As I said in the other related thread, my 2013 has the same problem. But they wouldn't be able to use the "modification" excuse with mine. As soon as I can get some pictures, I'll be forwarding them for their review.

[oldelmer1]

Try sending your story to Action Line in Trailer Life magazine.

[mach111]

quote:Originally posted by oldelmer1

Try sending your story to Action Line in Trailer Life magazine.

Yes do this. Owners need to know about this situation.

[oldelmer1]

Here is the address for Good Sam Action Line:

actionline@goodsamclub.com
Send a brief letter of explanation and, if applicable, copies of the receipt or other pertinent records and pictures.

If you are a Good Sam Member, you can submit everything online at goodsamclub.com/actionline

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

[jlb27537]

Hello All,

Mor/Ryde got involved, they sent their engineers over to Goshen and talked to the engineers @ Keystone. They went down to the line floor and did some measurements and this is the outcome.

First, Lippert supplies the spring hangers that the Dexter springs are mounted to. The Lippert specs are basicly 1/4" wider than what the Dexter specs are.

So, when you bolt a X Factor brace to a spring hanger that is 1/4" wider than the spring, use a wet bolt that is a stepped bolt, it will pull the hanger inward and the outer flange will bend inward.

Any of you with bent spring hangers, it is a "normal" condition, per Keystone.

Keystone has retracted their position that I have modified the frame and the installation of the X Factor does not void any warranty provided by Keystone.

I want to say Thank You to Gary Wheeler with Mor/Ryde for getting to the bottom of this issue.

[DQDick]

I have found Mor/Ryde to be very good to work with in the past. Glad they came thru for you!

[Irlpguy]

jib27537 wrote:

quote: First, Lippert supplies the spring hangers that the Dexter springs are mounted to. The Lippert specs are basicly 1/4" wider than what the Dexter specs are.

So, when you bolt a X Factor brace to a spring hanger that is 1/4" wider than the spring, use a wet bolt that is a stepped bolt, it will pull the hanger inward and the outer flange will bend inward.

Any of you with bent spring hangers, it is a "normal" condition, per Keystone.

Keystone has retracted their position that I have modified the frame and the installation of the X Factor does not void any warranty provided by Keystone.

What a complete load of garbage: If Lippert are supplying those spring hangers then they are only using what they have available at the time, because mine are the correct ones and you could install the Mor/Ryde braces without having any bending whatsoever on my spring hangers.

I do not care what Keystone and Lippert say, those are not the correct hangers and that certainly would not be considered normal under any circumstances except on a Keystone RV.

Of course they have retracted their statement that your work has voided the frame warranty, the problem is theirs not yours. If you want to know what the correct width of the hanger should be, then contact Dexter, I assure you they will not recommend a hanger with that kind of space between the spring and hanger..

The bending of the hanger has absolutely nothing to do with the addition of the Mor/Ryde system, simply tightening the wet bolt would cause one or both sides to bend inward to take up the space..

I would like some other Montana owners to measure their spring hangers and see if they have that kind of bend, whether Mor/Ryde is installed or not. There may be others with the same incorrect hanger installed, however it would be interesting to know how many like myself have the correct ones.

IMHO once again everyone has been fed a bunch on Keystone you know what here.

[richfaa]

2013 3402 Big Sky. Mine are 2 1/2 inches at the top and 2 1/4 inches at the bottom, maybe less. All of them are very close to that measurement?????I really can not see a bend but there is one...

[Irlpguy]

Richfaa wrote:

quote:
2013 3402 Big Sky. Mine are 2 1/2 inches at the top and 2 1/4 inches at the bottom, maybe less. All of them are very close to that measurement?????I really can not see a bend but there is one...

Rich did you measure the outside width of the hanger or the inside.

It appears that Dexter uses 1.75" wide springs all the way up to their 4000 lb spring. My 2012 - 3402RL has 1.75" wide springs. The inside measurement on the hangers is 1 7/8" allowing sufficient space for the spring to move in the hanger.

It appears that the wetbolt being used is designed for a spring that is 1.75" wide and a 1 7/8" wide hanger, The way a hanger bolt works, if they used a wider wetbolt on the wider hanger, the hanger would not bend but the spring would have way too much space on either side in the hanger. I guess the folks at Keystone think we are all Mushrooms and you all know what they do to mushrooms..For Keystone to suggest this is proper is just unbelievable.

[Phil P]

Hi

There is a fix for that that is not too costly and easy to do.

One of the MOC members has posted pictures of it.

I will get pictures of the frame repair I did on ours and you can see the fix just ignore the strap on the frame it is there because the frame I beam had failed.

Phil P

[richfaa]

quote:Originally posted by Irlpguy

Richfaa wrote:

Rich did you measure the outside width of the hanger or the inside.

It appears that Dexter uses 1.75" wide springs all the way up to their 4000 lb spring. My 2012 - 3402RL has 1.75" wide springs. The inside measurement on the hangers is 1 7/8" allowing sufficient space for the spring to move in the hanger.

It appears that the wetbolt being used is designed for a spring that is 1.75" wide and a 1 7/8" wide hanger, The way a hanger bolt works, if they used a wider wetbolt on the wider hanger, the hanger would not bend but the spring would have way too much space on either side in the hanger. I guess the folks at Keystone think we are all Mushrooms and you all know what they do to mushrooms..For Keystone to suggest this is proper is just unbelievable.

Those were outside measurements. Went out this AM and took a better look and used a better measure. My inside measure is 1 7/8 top to bottom. The spring is 1.75. To my eye I see a bit of a inward bend on the outside of the hanger. Had to remove grease and road grime to get accurate measurements. Another question for the fall rally

[jlb27537]

Hi Group,

The Dexter specs for a 1.75" spring hanger is inside width of 1.84-1.92" This gives you .005-.009" clearance on each side of the spring.

The Lippert specs are 2.0-2.063" inside clearance. Mor/Ryde sent me the engineering drawing in a PDF of the Lippert hanger.

My spring hangers measure 2.05-2.06.

The wet bolt used when the X Factor is installed is the same wet bolt used in the shackle next to the LRE4000. Dexter bolts, Dexter springs, Lippert spring hangers that are not in Dexter specs.

It is what it is.

[Irlpguy]

jib27537 wrote:

quote:
Hi Group,

The Dexter specs for a 1.75" spring hanger is inside width of 1.84-1.92" This gives you .005-.009" clearance on each side of the spring.

The Lippert specs are 2.0-2.063" inside clearance. Mor/Ryde sent me the engineering drawing in a PDF of the Lippert hanger.

My spring hangers measure 2.05-2.06.

The wet bolt used when the X Factor is installed is the same wet bolt used in the shackle next to the LRE4000. Dexter bolts, Dexter springs, Lippert spring hangers that are not in Dexter specs.

It is what it is.

Actually the Dexter spec would give you a range of 0.09 to 0.17 hundredths of an inch, which is considerably larger than .005 - .009 thousandths of an inch. But the message is the same. Dexter spec is much tighter than what Lippert are using and saying is acceptable.

Proper hanger bolts are designed with burrs on the head end and a shoulder on the nut end, you are only able to tighten them the distance provided by the distance of the inside of the hanger on the head end and the shoulder on the nut end, otherwise you could tighten them right up to the spring with no allowance for any clearance or movement.

I am having a hard time understanding why it is that my hangers are the correct width as are Richfaa's but others are not. I go back to my original suggestion that Lippert are using whatever is available or they have on the shelf at the time of assembly of each unit. Surely they can use a standard size for all units since the spring is the same width on them all.

You are right it is what it is, but "it is another example of poor quality and attention to detail".

[Phil P]

[quote]quote:Originally posted by Irlpguy

jib27537 wrote:

You are right it is what it is, but "it is another example of poor quality and attention to detail".

You are very kind with your remarks. You should hear what my steel structures engineer has to say about the entire frame.

Phil P

[Irlpguy]

Phil I am sure I have said all that your engineer has said and more regarding these frames. I just don't want to be banned from the forum for my comments...