Lawsuit

[mtlakejim]

Originally Posted by packnrat

the more i read, the more i think i would build it my self.
buy a bare frame , improve it a bit. ( nake it my self?).
would take me at least a year to do it ( must work reg job to pay the bills) and just might cist me twice-thrice the new rv paice. but it would be bilt right no falts.. and if anything did break i would know how to fix it right the first time.
just no fancy graphics or brand name on it.

Being a welder and jack of all trades I have seriously thought of building my own from scratch and researched it quite a bit. It is doable but will cost more (depending on how you build it). I was looking at 100% Aluminum box frame and skin (zero wood and Fiberglass I’m a welder after all) but that would be super pricy.

Grand Design and then Keystone started building my design (see High Country 381TH) and at $55K it was just too cheap not to go with it and save the headaches of a self build. Especially before I have a shoplarge enough for such a project!!

[Yoquedo]

been there done that with CW Katy, Tx ! Never again.

[dfb]

All my previous were wood frame.. they were fine.

[Ram Montana High Country]

Bought mine in Willis - BAD Service Experience ... had independent service tech in Arlington come out to look at fridge - not working. he arranged warranty work at Alvarado - top notch service team. Was told by tech not to go to Mesquite bad rep.

Recently went back to Willis - not perfect but made major leap forward.

Still majorly shy of RV Station in Nacogdoches - mostly due to Service Manager training his Team in true service.

[mtlakejim]

Originally Posted by dfb

All my previous were wood frame.. they were fine.

I’m a welder. I just think metal......

[Montana Man]

Originally Posted by Rondo

The way I look at things, "IF you are so unhappy with your Montana and the quality of work that has been done on it, why do you still have it?" Go out and trade it in for an SOB and see if THEIR Quality is any better than the one you presently have. From what I've been able to gather off of other manufacturer's forums and brands of fivers , there is no difference between the Montana's quality than the others. In fact, there are a whole lot of complaints on other rv websites that are much worse than those that are coming out here on this Forum. You didn't pay $300,000 for your rig and you aren't living in an S & B when you're in your Montana. Do you think that the S & B would be the same if it was rolling down the hiways and biways of our US or Canada? I know it wouldn't. I like mine and have had several problems with it BUT I will stay with my Montana and not go to an SOB. IF you don't like it, trade it and see what you have then folks!

I like my Montana too. It is our second one. There is a lot to like but build quality isn't on that list. Today's trailers are going through what 80's american cars went through. A serious quality issue. In this case there is no foreign competition to compete with or learn from. The issue is usually greed or inexperience. Keystone has been doing this too long to claim inexperience. What other products do consumers buy for 50k or more and go through these quality issues?

[dfb]

Rondo!, i have beat you to it... Looking for a nice K-Z ESCALADE. CAN GET A SUPER NICE ONE CHEAPER than a new Montana.. you should see what they are... i want one BEFORE thor took over..Rondo, there is no reason for walls to fall off, or water leakes,, if you can justify it good for you. But not me man. There is no excuse for these things to happen. To install the cheapest carpet available. On the trip im on now, two slide gears stripped... i can forgive the norcold going LiOP...i can forgive lights burning out, or fan blades falling to the floor. I can forgive the slides getting rocks under them and scraping the vinyl wood floor. But walls falling off, or bad leaks, sorry, no excuse for this action..fender screws coming out, a toilet they continue to install knowing darn well they are defective..forcing their customers to spend money on new toilets.. exterior trim that disintergrates in the sun after one year. Many things i say, ok.. but other things i say no way..

[Mikendebbie]

They have shows on TV about people who build their own custom RVs from the frame up. They call them TINY HOMES. I have noticed they never discuss GVWR, tires, axles, tongue weight, height or tow vehicles, and it seems to me that most customers are looking to keep them largely stationary - not rolling down the highway. They don’t have slide-outs to worry about. But I don’t see them on the highway passing me. I can’t remember ever seeing one. DW thinks they are cute. I have serious doubts about comfort and livability. I would not trade my Monte for one! I would like to see a follow up TV program 18 months after the slowly tow them off the lot. I wonder what they complain about over on the tiny home forum?

[packnrat]

well if you build your own, you have no right to complain about a bad builder.

[Phil P]

Originally Posted by Rondo

The way I look at things, "IF you are so unhappy with your Montana and the quality of work that has been done on it, why do you still have it?" Go out and trade it in for an SOB and see if THEIR Quality is any better than the one you presently have. From what I've been able to gather off of other manufacturer's forums and brands of fivers , there is no difference between the Montana's quality than the others. In fact, there are a whole lot of complaints on other rv websites that are much worse than those that are coming out here on this Forum. You didn't pay $300,000 for your rig and you aren't living in an S & B when you're in your Montana. Do you think that the S & B would be the same if it was rolling down the hiways and biways of our US or Canada? I know it wouldn't. I like mine and have had several problems with it BUT I will stay with my Montana and not go to an SOB. IF you don't like it, trade it and see what you have then folks!

Hi

A lot of you are missing the point.

I have accepted the delivery of new products some I the price range of 40 million. These were all mass produced.

I have never (not even once) accepted one without making a list of discrepancies and turning that over to the designated person.

At this point is where Keystone drops the ball.

The new owner turns over the list and the dealer either does nothing, doesn’t present it to Keystone correctly or takes so long it outside of Keystones 90 day policy.

The reason this happens is because Keystone does not audit a selling dealer’s service personnel and maintenance facility. The closest they come to this is to make sure there is an office with the label on the door “service manager”

So all of the complaints you see here come right back on Keystone.

If Keystone was at all interested in taking care of their customers the dealer that sold my unit would no longer be selling Keystone or Thor products. I have encountered several some as recent as 30 days ago having the same results with this dealer.

When Keystone stops backing the high sales dealers that don’t have a qualified service personnel and facility their reputation would take a turn for the better.

The discussion of production line quality becomes mute if the manufacturer excises responsibility for discrepancies and repairs or replaces in a timely manner.

The RVIA scam for certified technicians is a whole different story.

Phil P

[BB_TX]

With RV sales hitting record or near record highs every year, why would they do anything different that might increase costs or slow production?

[capras801]

I don't know what went on with Montanas in 2012 but it was the only year there were no recalls. I have a 2012 and am very happy with it and would not trade up after following the posts on this subject on this Forum.

[Chip]

Mine was built in 2012 as well. I. Bought the extended warranty and never had to use it. Biggest issue, aside from numerous small ones I took care of, has been the frame flex. Been in the service center four times and still not 100% corrected, but close.

All in all we are happy with it and would not trade for a new one at this point.

But I do have to fix something about every trip we take.

[waynemoore]

Yes and your lawn mower has just as many parts as your RV??? And of course you tow in down the road at 65 or so MPH.

Just saying is all.

[packnrat]

i believe what most peps are complaining about is lack of care or quality in the build, no so much about some items falling apart. who would put up with any lawn mower company if they fell apart just looking at it? or say the blades or wheels kept falling off everyday. (motor made by "outside" contractor, so covered under there warranty)

yes flexing, cracking. but not walls falling off, or outer walls failing in a way the manf says they are built not to.

[Renegade1LI]

Originally Posted by packnrat

i believe what most peps are complaining about is lack of care or quality in the build, no so much about some items falling apart. who would put up with any lawn mower company if they fell apart just looking at it? or say the blades or wheels kept falling off everyday. (motor made by "outside" contractor, so covered under there warranty)

yes flexing, cracking. but not walls falling off, or outer walls failing in a way the manf says they are built not to.

I agree, I think most of us are ok with a punch list of minor items. What we don't expect is having major component failures or serious build quality issues that prevent us from enjoying what we paid for. A lawsuit is the last thing I want, I would be happy to never see the dealer again till I'm ready to buy another one. Having just spoke to my insurance adjuster he told me how many people lack the skills & or ability to properly maintain an rv & these things need a certain amount of maintenance. He said you would be surprised how many people have not been on there roof & then he gets the call for water leaks.

[jeffba]

For me I can handle many of the repairs. What are tough to repair/replace on the MHC:
Bal cable slide motors. They are prone to leak oil and ruin slide top- Fix apply bandaid.
Lippert Ground control Electric levelers. Even the service department says more trouble than worth
then there are the easy ones.
thetford toilet- just replace it when you first bring it home.
vacuum breaker valve just replace -- leaks from the start.
china bomb tires. all literature says Grange tires-- E range installed

the list goes on.

Ask me me if I had found this site BEFORE I bought would I have gone with a MHC.

Just looked at a 2019 20th Anniversary 3071LK. very similar to our 379RD. They just got it in. Still had the bugs on it from the drive.

I was impressed with the fit and finish of it coming straight from the factory.
Would avoid most of the above issues.

Would have had to pump $34K into the deal to make it happen.
I think I am banned for the sales department.

Service advisor and I are getting to be best buds

[mtlakejim]

Originally Posted by jeffba

For me I can handle many of the repairs. What are tough to repair/replace on the MHC:
Bal cable slide motors. They are prone to leak oil and ruin slide top- Fix apply bandaid.
Lippert Ground control Electric levelers. Even the service department says more trouble than worth
then there are the easy ones.
thetford toilet- just replace it when you first bring it home.
vacuum breaker valve just replace -- leaks from the start.
china bomb tires. all literature says Grange tires-- E range installed

the list goes on.

Ask me me if I had found this site BEFORE I bought would I have gone with a MHC.

Just looked at a 2019 20th Anniversary 3071LK. very similar to our 379RD. They just got it in. Still had the bugs on it from the drive.

I was impressed with the fit and finish of it coming straight from the factory.
Would avoid most of the above issues.

Would have had to pump $34K into the deal to make it happen.
I think I am banned for the sales department.

Service advisor and I are getting to be best buds

Amen on the wish I had found MOC BEFORE I purchased my new rig. There is about 5-10k in upgrades I would have liked to have added as part of the deal. Nearly all (especially tires) are important safety upgrades!!!

It isn’t that there are one or two flaws from the factory. It’s the fact there are MAJOR design flaws and Keystone has to know about them if they monitor sites like this at all. Tires are one example but what about all the collapsing AC return ducts, Lippert electric leveling system issues, and leaking cable slide motors!! EVERYONE is having problems with those and it is Keystones responsibility to address same with their suppliers and make it right by owners. They should send out mobile teams to fix these issues at owners homes not make us take them to a dealer!!

[CaptnJohn]

CW cleaned up a bunch of small stuff under warranty. As far as Ground Control 3.0; had it on my last 5er and again now, never a problem. Now I have to check 4 slide motors next week when I get the 5er out. That will make me unhappy 2 months out of warranty.

[Kyle and Lisa]

Originally Posted by jeffba

For me I can handle many of the repairs. What are tough to repair/replace on the MHC:
Bal cable slide motors. They are prone to leak oil and ruin slide top- Fix apply bandaid.
Lippert Ground control Electric levelers. Even the service department says more trouble than worth
then there are the easy ones.
thetford toilet- just replace it when you first bring it home.
vacuum breaker valve just replace -- leaks from the start.
china bomb tires. all literature says Grange tires-- E range installed

the list goes on.

Ask me me if I had found this site BEFORE I bought would I have gone with a MHC.

Just looked at a 2019 20th Anniversary 3071LK. very similar to our 379RD. They just got it in. Still had the bugs on it from the drive.

I was impressed with the fit and finish of it coming straight from the factory.
Would avoid most of the above issues.

Would have had to pump $34K into the deal to make it happen.
I think I am banned for the sales department.

Service advisor and I are getting to be best buds