Surge Guard - Montana Owners Club

rlrich · 12-24-2006, 05:26 AM

I am going to purchase and install some sort of high/low voltage and power spike protection. Does anyone have any experience with the Surge Guard products? How complicated is the installation of the hardwired version? The portable version would be much simpler to install but also much simpler to be stolen. These are a bit pricey but I'm sure it's just as anything else, you get what you pay for.

ols1932 · 12-24-2006, 05:47 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by rlrich

I am going to purchase and install some sort of high/low voltage and power spike protection. Does anyone have any experience with the Surge Guard products? How complicated is the installation of the hardwired version? The portable version would be much simpler to install but also much simpler to be stolen. These are a bit pricey but I'm sure it's just as anything else, you get what you pay for.

Since we have been full timing (Nov 2000--now), we have seen three rigs have appliances destroyed due to power surges. We purchased both the 30 and 50 amp Surge Guards from Camping World (just got the 50 amp 2 months ago). They are portable but Camping World also sells a locking system whereby you can lock the surge guard to the cable and then to a slide rail on the rig.

I think we all understand that if someone wants to steal something, they will. Those who are bent on thievery usually carry a pair of bolt cutters and drive a fast vehicle. For me, if they want my system so bad that they will go to all the trouble to cut my cable and have to wind up 30-50 feet of power cable in order to scram, well I guess they can have it. I'm not going to cry over it. I won't like it, but I will make it as difficult for them as I can.

One reason we went to the portable Surge Guards was because we didn't know how long we would keep this rig. It's been since May of 2000 and we are still in it.

Orv

Ozz · 12-24-2006, 06:13 AM

rlrich,
I suggest a commercial wired in model, actually, it is residential, RV, and commercial. Intermatic, just a 3 wire install, scads of Jewell protection, more than enough to serve your equipment. I have the older small unit on my 200 amp. service at home. The large one connected to my automatic transfer switch in the Monte.
Hemlock, (John) bought on on the internet-EBay.
You were wise in your thoughts on this.
Ozz
Here 'tiz:
Surge guard;
Photo 1
Photo 2
Photo 3

Ozzie · 12-24-2006, 06:19 AM

I also have a Surge Guard portable unit that I use - until I figure out if I need an autoformer (built in surge protector). The portable unit has tripped during my use from low voltage (it cuts off to protect).

From what I have seen so far, most of the campground power mast boxes also have a locking covers. All you need is a padlock. They would have to cut the cover it to get it (easy). With the connector lock (I also have one) they would have to cut the main cord.

Like Orv said, It comes down to keeping people honest - if they want it, they'll get it.
With an autoformer inside, all they can get is the outside cord for copper.

For my purposes, tripping on low voltage is fine (even desirable), but if I'm away to town I would want it to restart by itself. I have a dog that would be inside and don't want to worry about the air going off while we're away.

Ozz's suggestion is cheaper and pretty easy to do too...and better than the external surge protector. I think this will be on my short list.

nailbender · 12-24-2006, 09:24 AM

I have been looking on line at hard wired surge suppressors and not sure if I am looking at the correct model. I thought a hard wired suppressor would be wired into the main line before entering the breaker box. The Intermatics I am finding on line requires 2 dedicated 15 amp circuit breakers. What is that about, is it the right model or something else?
Looking at Ozz's photos, it appears that the suppressor just interrupts the main line. Does anybody have a model # for the Intermatic.

Ozz · 12-24-2006, 09:35 AM

The way it works is to shunt the spike to the electronics in the box. The wires just attach under the line wire screws.
No, you want the 220v, 2 wire with ground model for electrical panels.
I'll see if I can get the model number for you.
Ozz

Ozzie · 12-24-2006, 09:44 AM

I was also just looking into the Intermatic IG1240RC here:

http://www.electricsupplyonline.com/...-arrestors.php

Reading the instructions, it does say that it requires two dedicated 15 amp breakers. I happen to have 2 slots empty, so unless I'm mistaken, I'll need to find two matching breakers.

Do we need two dedicated breakers Ozz?

Install instructions:

http://www.intermatic.com/images/ins...s/IG1240RC.pdf

rlrich · 12-24-2006, 10:13 AM

This is the Surge Guard information I had been looking at:

http://www.surgeguard.com/Products.htm

Considering my limited knowledge and fear of screwing up anything electrical, I was leaning towards some in the "plug it in" line of simplicity.

Ozz's setup is definitely the more professional looking. It's very easy to see that you know what you are doing Ozz.

Ozz · 12-24-2006, 10:40 AM

http://www.foxelectricsupply.com/con...ductNo=IG1240R
An info sheet.
Ozzie, it goes on your main, if 30 amp, just one breaker; because it has only one 120volt line, on the 50 amps, or your home, on the main again, only then you will have two lines coming in; 120v + 120v= 220v.

Ozz · 12-24-2006, 10:41 AM

Thanks, someone for the shortcut! Just saw it. Cool Beans!

nailbender · 12-24-2006, 11:11 AM

Is the Intermatic just a warning device power problems. Looking at the wiring digram, if 2 hot lines are attached to the Intermatic (for 50 amp) it appears that it is only a warning device only and will not shut off the other breakers not connected to it.
The Surge Guard Plus w/ remote monitor appears to be able to shut down entire electrical system on the land line. Is that right? I would like to have a system that will shut off electric automatically if there is a problem

rlrich · 12-24-2006, 11:32 AM

From what I read on the Surge Guard it pretty much does everything automagically. When first plugged in it spends a little time determining that the park connection is wired correctly and supplying proper power before it allows any power to pass on thru it to the trailer. From then on it watches for high or low voltage and power spikes. In the event of any of those problems, it completely shuts down the electrical system until it senses normal power has been restored. It also has a 136 second delay in restoring normal power when available to let head pressure (whatever that is) in the A/C compressor return to a normal level before restart.

Ozz · 12-24-2006, 12:18 PM

The surge guard I know about and have two of, are just voltage spike protection, they shut nothing off.
It is just a 'Sponge' that accepts the spike.
I would like to read the info. on the one that is for another purpose that you must be referring to.

Ozz · 12-24-2006, 12:24 PM

Ok, I know now what you are seeing, it actually is called the Surge Guard. Yep, it does protect and shuts down-has a time delay for compressor restart to avoid short cycling.
It does more than mine, but I elected to forgo the voltage monitoring, I feel I can determine low voltage, and do not want the device.
I'm just concerned about spikes for my little home.
Ozz

stiles watson · 12-24-2006, 12:33 PM

To answer one question, no, the Intermetics device is not just a warning device. It is a surge absorbsion or surge supression device. It "captures" the spike without shutting down your power. It is a commercial device designed for "whole house portection."

I don't think Surge Guard is very good about telling how their product works. I don't mind paying a higher price for one product over another if I can be shown where it is significantly superior to the lesser priced. I hate it when a manufacturer tries to snow me with smoke and mirrors (without saying that SG is doing that).

If I were going to use Surge Guard, I would use the hard-wired model and mount it in the Monty and run my power source to it because $350 is a lot of money, to me, to put out where it could be easily stolen.

I have not yet determined whether incoming cable and phone service can also be proteced with this single device by Surge Guard. Intermetics does sell a device that will. I, too, am still deciding.

ols1932 · 12-24-2006, 12:53 PM

Stiles, the Surge Guard does nothing for the cable and phone service. The fact that the Surge Guard prevents power that is below 102 volts is one of the things I appreciate. When I run into that kind of situation I know that I have to use my autoformer in front of it (between the CG power and the Surge Guard).

Orv

nailbender · 12-24-2006, 12:55 PM

I am still not clear on all of this. Is the Intermatic a surge protection only or is it able to detect high and low voltage. I agree there is large $ difference between products, but the difference would be would be nothing compared to replacing damaged appliances.
I need to decide soon, Santa will be here in a few hours. Oh well
Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night
Have a great Christmas

Ozz · 12-24-2006, 01:32 PM

Two devices;
Intermatic surge and/or spike protection is one, it detects spikes and shunts them to protect the whole electrical system and everything downstream from voltage spikes. Including computers and tv's. I have this one in my home and in my Monte.
The other is Surge guard, (brand name) a different device that the power runs into and out of. It controls high and low voltages, shuts the power down when encountering such voltages. As rlrich has accurately stated at the top of the page I'm on. I also am not spending the bucks for it.
Ozz

Broome101 · 12-24-2006, 01:53 PM

Franks Voltage Boost does it all for you, monitors low/high voltage also shuts down for spikes or lighting. Little price but does it all, if that is what you are looking for.

ols1932 · 12-24-2006, 02:09 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Broome101

Franks Voltage Boost does it all for you, monitors low/high voltage also shuts down for spikes or lighting. Little price but does it all, if that is what you are looking for.

Four years ago I had both a 30- and a 50-amp voltage booster (he called them autoformers) and both of them failed. He did not stand behind them. I'd be very leery of purchasing anything made by Frank's. At one time there was a lawsuit between Hughes and Frank's and I don't know if that lawsuit was ever settled. I now have a 50-amp Hughes that works well for me.

Orv

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