GMC 2500 HD Diesel Towing Capacity?

[richfaa]

Well why is that sticker on the door?? mine says.."this vehicle conforms to all applicable Federal Motor vehicle safety standards in effect on the date of manufacture above" That is a scary statement... then there are a bunch of numbers and other stuff on that sticker. Does that not imply that there are Federal standards that the truck conforms to and those numbers and stuff are some of the standards??? How does addng after market equipment affect those standards. Do the legal experts and experts on Federal motor vehicle safety standards on the forum know these things??? I would much rather have a 3/4 ton truck but the numbers did not add up so we have what we needed.

[SlickWillie]

Yep, you got to do what you're comfortable with. I do think if it were a big safety issue though, the states would be all over it. I've seen semis blow by me that I'm a lot more worried about than an RVer with an over weight 2500HD. Oh, and those pulp and log trucks; you ever seen what happens when they loose a log or two? I get behind one of those babies, I either drop way back, or try to get way ahead of him. I must say though, TX has worked on that issue.

[Dmaxdon]

OK, I gotta ask; Seattle or BC? I'm just curious as I noticed the USA under the user name and in your profile

BC

One ton owners jealous of 3/4 ton owners !!!!!!!!!!!!
This is the only site on the web that promotes overweight towing and after I get kicked off again my new identity might show China as my home

[Art-n-Marge]

Wow, this is a dilemma for me. I am trying to do things the right way for my rig but I am seeing conflicting numbers on the documentation for my truck.

The sticker on my truck's pillar GVWR is 10000.

The pillar also states that the GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) for the front is 5100 and the rear is 6200 which added together comes out to 11,300 or 1,300 over the
stamped 10000.

Then, the truck manual states that the GVWR must not exceed the factory installed tires because the weight ratings for the vehicle tires added together give the GVWR. The tires on my truck are each rated at 3160, so multiplied by four means the GVWR is 12,540.

However I read consistently that the CGVWR is 23,000 and weighed at the scale I am at 22,000 including passengers, the dog, all our truck load and the trailer itself.

I hope that us 3/4 ton truck owners are not trying to voluntarily and knowingly exceed our weight ratings. History tells me that if this is the case we are just accidents waiting to happen. For me, the price difference between a 3/4 ton versus a 1 ton was huge ($3000-$4000) and the load difference (1000 lbs, as I recall) far less than that and I was trying to stay with SRWs. So for only 1000 lbs I bought a lot of gadgets to spruce up my truck with the price difference. I am just trying to feel comfortable with my decisions based on all the wizardry on weights.

The weight concerns are the reasons I will probably never add a 2nd A/C, W/D and other considerable weight options until I remove significant items from the rig (like the glass tube televisions, etc.)

And the discussion goes on and on and on........ and forever will.

Stay safe everyone.

[SlickWillie]

quote:Originally posted by Dmaxdon

OK, I gotta ask; Seattle or BC? I'm just curious as I noticed the USA under the user name and in your profile

BC

One ton owners jealous of 3/4 ton owners !!!!!!!!!!!!
This is the only site on the web that promotes overweight towing and after I get kicked off again my new identity might show China as my home

I was just wondering why you were quoting BC law if you resided in the USA. Personally, if I was kicked off a forum, I don't think I would make any effort to get back on. Merely my opinion.

I sure don't think this site promotes overweight towing. There are probably some here that do tow overweight, but does that mean the site promotes such? Every RV forum I have ever been on has the same issues with towing with 3/4 ton trucks. Should they squelch any discussion regarding the weight issue? I would hope not.

[Dmaxdon]

quote:Originally posted by SlickWillie

I was just wondering why you were quoting BC law if you resided in the USA. Personally, if I was kicked off a forum, I don't think I would make any effort to get back on. Merely my opinion.

I sure don't think this site promotes overweight towing. There are probably some here that do tow overweight, but does that mean the site promotes such? Every RV forum I have ever been on has the same issues with towing with 3/4 ton trucks. Should they squelch any discussion regarding the weight issue? I would hope not.

I continue to participate because I love the Montana product. Having sold SOBs for the last 3 months, I am still happy I bought a Montana.
I take part in weight discussions only to help newbies as this is a very complex subject. Yes, a 3/4 ton truck can have the same tow rating as a 1 ton, but the pin weight of a fifth wheel can overload a 3/4 ton. Many understand this and choose to go with the 3/4 ton.
That is their right to do so but to try and convince people that there is no difference between the trucks is not right.
A dually has 4 tires on the back. These are not for looks. They are for payload. My dually has an 11400 LB GVWR. A 2500 HD has a 9200 GVWR
Do the math. A 2500 HD with 4 adults in the cab is over 8000 LB leaving 1200 pounds of payload. Which model of Montana has a pin weight that light. NONE !! There are 5th wheels made for 2500 HDs, like Cougars and other lighter makes.
Choose your Fifth Wheel, than choose your truck.

[richfaa]

In terms of the front and rear axle rating exceeding the GAWR..Example My GVWR is 13K front axle 6K..rear axle 9K that is 15K??? those numbers mean you can not exceed 6K on the front or 9K on the rear..but NOT to exceed 13L GVWR.. Our truck has the snowplow package and the camper package ..hence the numbers.

When a person asks a question regarding weight issues it should be our responsibility to give that person the facts regarding the issue no matter what our personal opinion is or what truck we choose to pull with instead of trying to justify to him that it is ok to pull because we are. IMO if most folks did the homework or knew how to do the home work they would purchase a bigger truck or a smaller camper. Payload/cargo capacity/ Pin weight in almost never mentioned by salesmen, and miss understood or not known by most.

[KathyandDave]

The facts are available and calculable. What you do with them is the issue. We take the conservative approach that we'll stay within the various limits. To the facts, the old metaphor applies: what's the weakest link in the chain? You have to look at each number individually and determine if you may exceed that number, then decide how to manage the issue. This involves some juggling. For example, our Sierra's GVWR is 200lbs less than the sum of the front and rear GAWR's. That means if I load the rear axle up to its limit, then I have to make sure that the front axle carries 200lbs less than its limit. Conversely, if I get those big moose bars, then I'll have to reduce the load on the rear axle accordingly. The example I just gave doesn't include any consideration for the combination of the Sierra and the Monty, or the Monty axles in Canada, or any of the other links in the chain. There's lots of information here about how to obtain the facts. It's up to you to understand them all and make your value judgement knowledgeably. Don't forget the facts about your personal drivers license, the permits and regulations for your home jurisdiction and the jurisdictions where you plan to travel.

[SlickWillie]

quote:I continue to participate because I love the Montana product. Having sold SOBs for the last 3 months, I am still happy I bought a Montana.
I take part in weight discussions only to help newbies as this is a very complex subject. Yes, a 3/4 ton truck can have the same tow rating as a 1 ton, but the pin weight of a fifth wheel can overload a 3/4 ton. Many understand this and choose to go with the 3/4 ton.
That is their right to do so but to try and convince people that there is no difference between the trucks is not right.
A dually has 4 tires on the back. These are not for looks. They are for payload. My dually has an 11400 LB GVWR. A 2500 HD has a 9200 GVWR
Do the math. A 2500 HD with 4 adults in the cab is over 8000 LB leaving 1200 pounds of payload. Which model of Montana has a pin weight that light. NONE !! There are 5th wheels made for 2500 HDs, like Cougars and other lighter makes.
Choose your Fifth Wheel, than choose your truck.

You're the first RV salesman I've ever known of that doesn't feel a 3/4 ton will pull anything on the lot.

And I agree with most of what y'all are saying. But, I see no problem if someone upgrades RVs and already has a good 3/4 truck if they upgrade the suspension and tires to a point where the truck is equivalent to a one ton SRW. Then work the numbers from there. The dually is another issue. Personally, I wish I had the dually. I would have bought a bigger fifth wheel, but our truck was fairly new, and I could not afford the loss on it buying a new dually. So we went with the lighter pin weight.

[TLightning]

Anybody with any vehicle model year 2005 and newer can find the cargo capacity for that vehicle, to the nearest one pound, on the Tire and Loading Information sticker on or around the left rear door post.

[2 Sinks]

I originally pulled our Mountaineer 5ver 336RLT with our 2006 Dodge diesel qc 3/4 ton 4x4.The payload capacity stated on the truck door sticker as well as in the sales brochure was 2060 lbs,the dry pin weight for the trailer is 2090lbs.I was overweight to start with...add the Superglide hitch the front a/c installed a few months later and all the other stuff etc,etc,.I was quite overweight.I knew the weight was there and could feel it when driving the truck and didn't like it.Even added the extra leaf springs to level the truck and make me feel good about the excessive weight.There were no power issues or braking problems from what I could tell but then again I never had to make an emergency stop.The truck just felt loaded down and the steering felt lite with that much weight on it.Overweight is overweight no matter how you calculate it.

To me this was a major safety issue.I searched for 6 months and found a low mileage 2006 Dodge diesel qc 4x4 lwb dually which had never pulled anything that I could afford.The payload on our dually is over 4600 lbs.The lwb dually trucks have a much larger stability triangle than the swb models and you can feel the difference immidiately.Please pay close attention to payload capacity when truck shopping.

To me having this piece of mind knowing I'm not exceeding the limit or even close to it is well worth the change.I will never tow overloaded again.Besides if and when we can upgrade to a Blue Sky or Newmar I already have the truck to more than handle the load.

Load Em Up Move Em Out!!!
2007 Mountaineer 336RLT
2006 Dodge diesel 4x4 QC/DRW/LWB

[Dmaxdon]

It is sure great to see how this site has matured on the weight issue. Great posts from everyone.

A year ago, this thread would have been locked, all of us weight police would have been punted, and the ignorance would have prevailed.

This truly is a great site and getting better.

[Sinterior]

quote:Originally posted by SlickWillie

You're the first RV salesman I've ever known of that doesn't feel a 3/4 ton will pull anything on the lot.

And I agree with most of what y'all are saying. But, I see no problem if someone upgrades RVs and already has a good 3/4 truck if they upgrade the suspension and tires to a point where the truck is equivalent to a one ton SRW. Then work the numbers from there. The dually is another issue. Personally, I wish I had the dually. I would have bought a bigger fifth wheel, but our truck was fairly new, and I could not afford the loss on it buying a new dually. So we went with the lighter pin weight.

SlickWillie, correct me if I'm wrong, but I see by your posts you believe it's ok to be overweight.
OK, so using your experience and tow vehicle, can you tell me at what weight would you say goes from being ok to not being ok and why?
I also question why you say that a dually is another issue verses upgrading the suspension on a 3/4 ton truck to a 1 ton SRW truck, which doesn't change the GVWR anyway.
I'm not arguing with you, but trying to understand your logic.

Peter

[SlickWillie]

quote:SlickWillie, correct me if I'm wrong, but I see by your posts you believe it's ok to be overweight.
OK, so using your experience and tow vehicle, can you tell me at what weight would you say goes from being ok to not being ok and why?
I also question why you say that a dually is another issue verses upgrading the suspension on a 3/4 ton truck to a 1 ton SRW truck, which doesn't change the GVWR anyway.
I'm not arguing with you, but trying to understand your logic.

Peter

I think I addressed this previously, but it comes down to the fact that the 3/4 ton and 1 ton SRW are the same truck, except for springs and wheels/tires.(GM diesel, as I think that's what the OP has) And no, I'm not gonna throw any numbers at you. Just makes sense to me if I make my truck identical to a 1 ton, I should be able to tow the same. Of course, we know the dually has the extra support of the tires, though I would suspect the frame is the same. I never had the need or desire to research that one.

It's like everything else we do; if it bothers you, don't do it. Myself; I'm not worried about that little sticker on our door post. Surely we have enough common sense that when the headlights point skyward, or the springs bottom out we realize we shouldn't tow like that.

[richfaa]

I have questions?? That sticker on my 08 Ford says "This vehicle conforms to all applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards in effect on the date of manufacture of this vehicle" Why did Ford put that sticker there if the information on the sticker means nothing?? It implies to me that Ford has to meet those standards by Federal law. Google..federal motor vehicle safety standards and there are volumes of them, I did pick out that you can change the Sticker and there is a procedure to do that. Below that sticker is the tire and and cargo capacity information..required by Federal law to be there. Am I to understand that the manufacturer has to build a vehicle conforming to Federal safety standards...but we can disregard them????? Now our attorney and good friend tells us that it would be prudent to stay withing those standards.. Why would he say that???? The Ohio real weight police tell us it would be prudent to adhere to the standards..then there are those on this and other forums who say....pay no attention.. never had a problem... pulls it fine.. Who is right??? And while in getting a oil change at the Ford dealership yesterday There was a F-250 there pretty much like my truck.. But I noted a difference..I had 4 wheels on the rear..he had two. His door sticker information was far different than mine. My cargo capacity was nearly double.. I don't know why they make the 250 and the 350 if all we have to do is add air bags and maybe another leaf spring and they are the same truck???? It is a whole lot easier to get along if you never ask a question..

[SlickWillie]

Rich, you overlooked one simple thing; SRW=Single Rear Wheel I've seen all sorts of equipment modified to carry additional weight. Perhaps y'all don't do it in Ohio, but it sure is done down here. My neighbor added another axle to an old International truck for a friend to make it tandem axles. No problem, and he was hauling commercially; long goose neck with huge rolls of hay.

[Dean A Van Peursem]

Rich,

I don't have a real bone to pick with your reference to the stickers on the door frame. But don't you think that those weight limits on the door frame also might be influenced by what Ford would like the owner to follow to reduce warranty claims? Us F250 owners don't have a real argument with F350 owners and we know there is added capability but we also may not want to be "equipment broke"! There is a financial limit as to how much money some of us want to put into a TV so that our retirement remains a relaxed retirement for the both of us. It really isn't an issue with me to take a little longer to get to a new location, take it a little slower up and down the mountain pass, leave more space behind other vehicles and spend $300 on aftermarket add-ons rather than $20,000 on a new truck which has a less reliable engine with lower fuel mileage than I'm currently experiencing. There are all kinds of things that influence decisions TV and RV owners make other than just the door stickers. For example: In 2003 the F250 had more towing capacity than the F350 Dually according to the Ford Sales Literature. If someone is buying a new TV because they don't already have one, most of these influences may not come into play.

[richfaa]

That sticker is not Ford Literature. It is there because the Federal Government says it has to be there and my question is why is it there. IF as some say..it means nothing. What folks tow with for whatever reason is their own business. However we owe a straight and honest answer to folks who ask the question. The buyer should be knowledgeable and aware then let them make the decision knowing the facts. There are folks who don't know and ask the question.

[akf15e]

I have a question. What is GVWR based on? What are the physical (not legal) risks associated with exceeding GVWR (not tire or RAWR, but GVWR)?

I know I am below GVWR when it's just me and my 3400, but I go over by a few hundred pounds when the wife, dogs, and some firewood go into the truck. What has GMC decided will no longer cope with the added weight? Brakes? Springs?

If the SRW has the same brakes but can carry an extra 8-900 lbs, then that defeats that theory. I understand there is an extra leaf spring in the 3500, so I assume that is the difference. But why do my airbags not change some of that? I mounted them on the axle housing and to the frame, so I am taking some weight of the leaf springs, am I not? Or am I confused?

Regardless, I know I would be less "on the margins" if I upgraded trucks, but beyond that I am not overly concerned at this point. The whole "lawyer and lawsuit" scare tactics just don't seem to be that credible. The weight thread sticky on rv net seems to poke a lot of holes in that. If I have a wreck, maybe I'll regret that, but I just don't see the Highway Patrol weighing my truck, 5er, wife, dogs, firewood, beach chairs etc at an accident scene.

I honestly would like to know what I'm missing. My 2500 will not outlast my 3400, so I may look for a dually next time, but unless I see some driving reason besides the sticker on the door with no evidence of what it actually means, I may stick with what I have.

Not trying to be argumentative, but am really seeking knowledge vice opinions.

[SlickWillie]

Butch, I think you already have it figured out. I took the time on GMpartsdirect to look up part numbers a few months ago, and the only difference I found in the D/A 2500 HD and the SRW 1 ton was the rear spring pack and IIRC the wheels/tires. I did this comparison using my 2004 GMC against a like model 3500 SRW model. On my year model, the 2500 came with LT245-75R-16 tires (6.5" wide rims), while the 3500 SRW had 265 tires with 7" wide rims. This is all off the top of my head, as I discarded the notes long ago. Hopefully everything is correct.