3/4 vs. 1 ton suspension

[sreigle]

I don't know how it works on the GM's but on the Fords and Dodges the difference is an extra leaf (overload leaf) on the rear suspension and the higher numbers on the ratings. The standard tires are the same. Sometimes the 1 ton has a tire option not available on the 3/4 ton so that could make a difference.

If you add suspension on the 3/4 ton to equal that on the 1 ton you have effectively increased the functional capacity from a safety standpoint. But the official numbers do not change.

[richfaa]

Humm. The specs for the 08 F-250 are max payload 2280lbs, GVWR 10000lbs and for the F-350 dually Max payload 4830, GVWR 13000lbs.. same truck. Am I to understand that the addition of a single set of springs makes that difference between the 250 and the 350????

Even lookinging the F250 and the F350 SWD We have f250 max payload 2280 F-350 3640 1360lb difference
GVWR F-250 10,000lbs F-350 11,500lbs a difference of 1500lbs. The addition of a overload spring or a extra leaf does that.

[SlickWillie]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Humm. The specs for the 08 F-250 are max payload 2280lbs, GVWR 10000lbs and for the F-350 dually Max payload 4830, GVWR 13000lbs.. same truck. Am I to understand that the addition of a single set of springs makes that difference between the 250 and the 350????

Even lookinging the F250 and the F350 SWD We have f250 max payload 2280 F-350 3640 1360lb difference
GVWR F-250 10,000lbs F-350 11,500lbs a difference of 1500lbs. The addition of a overload spring or a extra leaf does that.

Rich, I wouldn't think 1500 lbs would be a lot for an extra leaf to add. 750 per side is not much. I have a set of helpers back home for an S10 that might come close to that. A quick search on the internet finds helpers up to 3500 lbs. I believe the Fords (250 & 350 SRW) come with different wheels and tires also. I would consider that a suspension change also.(increased payload)

I intend to go to the LT265 tires in the future, not as an increase for payload, but simply for the fact that the Duramax comes with what I call "baby" tires. The fellow that runs our RV park recently put LT315's on his Chevy Duramax, and it sure improves the looks of it.(New wheels also) I will not go above the LT265 tires though, as I read where Allison said the tranny may not shift into fifth gear while towing heavy with LT285 tires. My son has been running the 265's for a couple years now with no problems.

[tom41]

just a ;ittle foresight here ..the ford F350 DULLY has the Dana 80 rearend not even the F350 single rear wheel has the Dana 80. so theres a big difference in just that part not counting all the others. some guys buys a F150 and tries to make a F250, so why dont you fellows do that/ HA be like me taking my F350 and saying only difference in mine and a F450 is the same except a 2" block. lol. anyways I love my F350 , everyone should get what they would be satisfied with, even tho by LAW you might not be legal. just a thought to ponder from a country REDNECK! HAHA

[H. John Kohl]

By changing the rear end from 3.73 to 4.10 the GCVWR changes from 21000 to 23000.

[richfaa]

Just trying to understand....so there is more difference than just the addition of a spring and to say that might be miss leading to someone asking a question and trying to learn....

[BB_TX]

I remember someone posting one time that the F350 also had a slightly larger diameter rear axle than the F250. He even gave diameter measurements of the two. Don't know if he was blowing diesel smoke or not.

[MacDR50]

The fair comparison is a 2500 SRW-RWD vs. a 3500 SRW-RWD with the same cab, engine, box, tranny, wheels and axle ratio. Please note that when I ran the numbers no LT SRW has the numbers, GVWR, GCVWR etc. to handle the big Montanna's. Others may get a different result. I chose not to use the pin weight specified by Keystone as it seemed very low. I used 20% of the 3585SA's GVWR which gave me over 3000#'s vs. the 1825 in the specs.

The original post was with respect to adding an extra (overload?) spring to the suspension of a 2500. It will stiffen the ride and keep the truck more level when loaded. We have done this to the 6 2500's we have in our fleet. Two others have airbags that accomplish the same but allow adjustment to provide a softer ride when the truck is empty.

[Fire5er]

The only way to know is to go to the scales, to THINK you’re within weight limits is not enough...in my opinion. Now for fact...you need to look at the sticker on the door of your truck to know what you load limit is. There are those out there with ¾ ton truck that are within their trucks load limits, and then there are others that have never gone to the scales and just feel they are not overweight. We all know the only way to know if we are over weight is to jump on the scale every once and awhile to know for sure. The longer you are away from home the more things we tend to put in our trucks and/or trailers and thus the 300 lbs safety margin we started with can now be 200 to 300 lbs over weight. JMHO…But if you don’t weigh your rig every now and then you just don’t know if you’re operating safely.

[SlickWillie]

There is a difference in the axle (rating @ ground) on the Ford 250 and 350 SD trucks. Here tis', a copy & paste: 6200 lbs. (F-250); 7280 lbs. (F-350 SRW); 9000 lbs. (F-350 DRW); 11000 lbs. (F-450) I wonder how they derive that figure (rating @ ground). Rear axle diameter, springs, tires? I didn't find the info readily available on the GM site. Someone did mention the diameter of the axle being different. Fact or fiction? Anyone know for sure?

Remember, this is for discussion only. No need for anyone to get bent out of shape.

[bsmeaton]

So whats the score now Slick -

I see about 100% here-say, mixed with urban legend, topped with a dash of nonsense, but at least it is fact-free!

[richfaa]

The numbers I posted were the real numbers from the Ford site. I have long ago given up on the subject, There are those who believe in Manufacturers specifications and those who don't and never the twain shall meet and I post the numbers although true, with tongue in cheek because no ones mind will be changed. I do however have a genunine concern about the folks who do not know and ask the question looking for a honest and accurate answer.We attempt to at least get them to look at the manufactureres spec's and determine for themselves what is correct and what is not. The poll on what we tow with is of course interesting and reflects what we do but not that we are correct.. I am among the 20% dual wheel drive that would like to be in the smaller truck less wheels group but my interpretation of the numbers do not add up.

The just add a spring perspective made me smile...so here

[MacDR50]

From the GM Canada site, here are numbers for 2008 Chev Silverado CC LB 4WD with the 6.6 Duramax, Allison 1000 tranny. The tire sizes differ so it isn't a perfect comparison. Note the brakes are 4W disk and are exactly the same size for all three vehicles. All have a tow rating of 13,000#'s (ball hitch).

2500HD Curb 6906 Payload 2294
3500HD-SRW Curb 7126 Payload 2779 Gross/Payload difference = 705/485
3500HD-DRW Curb 7371 Payload 4029 Gross/Payload difference = 1495/1250(>3500HD-SRW)or 2200/1735(>2500HD)

I went with the 4WD because that is what most people seem to use. The 2WD payloads are greater. 2500HD - 2601# 3500HD-SRW - 2993# 3500HD-DRW - 4335#

I can't vouch for size of axles but it stands to reason that the primary difference to account for the added payload capacity of the DRW over the SRW 3500HD is probably the two additional wheels. However, the 3500HD-SRW weighs 220# more than the 2500HD. Is this just additional springs or is the 3500 axle.rear-end designed for either SRW or DRW and therefore heavier construction? Is it just tire size difference? For a measly 220#'s (either one of my brother-in-laws) does it really matter.

These are the facts and nothing but the facts (OK the stuff about tires or axle size accounting for the increase in payload is more of a question than fact ). The only thing missing is the differences in Gross Combined Weight Ratings. Also note that trailer ratings are higher for 5th wheels. For example a 2WD 3500HD DRW is rated at 15,900 for a 5th wheel.

I don't think we should avoid these discussions as long as we state our sources as well as when we are expressing an opinion. Selecting a tow vehicle is a pretty daunting process for those who are new to the subject. If anyone wants to contact me I can tell them how I went about the task,and how I tried to separate myth from fact. When I first joined the MOC I had great plans to "publish" my findings in table forum as a service to all to my fellow MOC'rs especially the new ones who, like me, need help getting information. I decided against this even though I collected information on every truck in the 2500/250 class up to the 4500/450 going back several years. In the end it is each individual's decision and it is better they reach their own conclusions.

[brenkco]

Roger,
Very well put!
For a newbie, I have been reading all of this trying to make informed and educated choices. A lot of the basis for my concern is that when I started shopping for a 5er, I spent over an hour with a factory rep from Keystone at an RV show. We talked about the new cap design along with a whole host of issues. When we talked about TV, he clearly told me that short box, 4x4, 3/4 pickups were the most popular on the road and they specifically designed all of their trailers to be pulled by this vast market.

After committing to our 3400, I joined MOC and checking the threads on my TV.....all I can say is Wow. If you have your data handy and it's not too much trouble, please PM it to me!
Thanks!!

[Ozz]

I pull my Montana with my '08 3/4 ton Super Duty from Kansas City to South Padre Island, a 3 day journey, road time as we take our time.
I use the truck here shopping, bumming around and enjoying the sites. When we tow home, I unhook and use my truck for service calls around the greater Kansas City area. I chose to get the 3/4 ton for my use, my way of life.
I like the way I can park it, the way I can get it inside my garage, and use it as a car, my transportation.
I chose to get a nice truck that would do the job, and be a pleasure to drive for the 359 days I am not pulling the Montana.
It does the job, I did add Timbrens to the suspension, because it needed it, I would do the same if it came to a 'go around'
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!
Ozz

[TLightning]

quote:Originally posted by brenkco

Roger,
I spent over an hour with a factory rep from Keystone at an RV show. We talked about the new cap design along with a whole host of issues. When we talked about TV, he clearly told me that short box, 4x4, 3/4 pickups were the most popular on the road and they specifically designed all of their trailers to be pulled by this vast market.

This proves the Keystone guys don't know any more than RV salesmen or truck salesmen. He is putting out incorrect information, and I doubt the 'powers that be' know this is what he is telling the public.

[Delaine and Lindy]

The best way to get to understand from were a Truck saleman or Rv sales person or a factory Rep commint from. Just ask what they are driving or towing. I have found most don't drive a Truck and most don't have a 5th wheel. For the short time I sold Trucks, I made it a point to know what the Truck could or couldn't do. Its sad that so many Truck and Rv salemen don't have a clue to what their advising the buyer. Go to any Rally don't make any difference of make or model and if their weighing each wheel most will be over weight for what they are towing. Another thing tell them your driving a 1/2 ton truck and see how they answer. It will be a experience. Good Luck on your Choice. GBY....

[bsmeaton]

I had the Rep saying similar about the Big Sky! Holy Buckets, those are up over 16K gross with a 20% pin weight of up to 3,200 lbs. The pin itself is over the limit of a 3/4 ton. I figured about then that he worked out of the Cougar Plant and drove an Avalanche with a tent and a Coleman stove in the back.

Funny, he also said that Keytsone didn't put all the weight into the Big Sky like they previously did on the Cambridge because they still wanted to target the 3/4 - 1 ton market. He specifically said they excluded Corian and the big 100-gal tank - WRONG - Within 1 year of that line of nonsense, Keystone introduces Corian counters and 100-gal fresh water tanks in the entire fleet! (not that I'm complaining)

Other than the tailgate is about chest level rather than belt level, my F350 looks, rides, parks, gets the same mpg, and even costs about the same as it's F250 counterpart. The only difference is, I don't have to modify it to tow a Montana. I just don't understand the hesitation.

[Ozz]

Brad, you are a piece of work.

[Jim Jarvis]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

The numbers I posted were the real numbers from the Ford site. I have long ago given up on the subject, There are those who believe in Manufacturers specifications and those who don't and never the twain shall meet and I post the numbers although true, with tongue in cheek because no ones mind will be changed. I do however have a genunine concern about the folks who do not know and ask the question looking for a honest and accurate answer.We attempt to at least get them to look at the manufactureres spec's and determine for themselves what is correct and what is not. The poll on what we tow with is of course interesting and reflects what we do but not that we are correct.. I am among the 20% dual wheel drive that would like to be in the smaller truck less wheels group but my interpretation of the numbers do not add up.

The just add a spring perspective made me smile...so here

I came to the same conclusion as you Rich. I would not have a dullay if the numbers could have in any way said I did not need one.

Having said that I have found it useless to get into these threads but I do like your reasoning above, to provide useful information to new people who honestly are asking for advice.