Surge Guard

[Hemlockusa]

I called Frank's and pinned him down on his unit. If it has a surge it will protect your MONTANA for that surge, BUT AFTER THAT SURGE IT'S ""TOAST""" no reset no nothing - It die's to protect you stuff. What that also means is you have to buy another one and that is also one heck of a lot of money.... Just my Two Cents Worth. I went with the intermatic, found one on E bay new in the box for $50.00. No big deal to wire in Rich, you could do it no problem and it give's you a lot of piece of mind. MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE I'll see you in BRANSON... John

[MAMalody]

I have the Surge Guard (?) the rlrich was referring to. I have it hard wired into my rig so no theft problem. I figure I have had the 5er for 3 years already so my cost per year ,including installation ($150) is $167. I have had it trip twice. I don't know why or what it saved but no damage to anything. Checked everything out, reset park braker , waited 2 minutes 16 seconds and I was up and running.

[skypilot]

Mike (MAMalody): I thought that the SG was an autoreset device? You say youhad to reset a park breaker -- did the SurgeGuard trip it or was that a precautionary item on your part? (We also travel with pets so we'd like to have the system restore itself if possible.)

[richfaa]

I am a bit confused which is about normal for me... Surgeguards,, Auto Former..which do I need.



Don't get caught with your voltage down! The Autoformer provides protection from low voltage damage by boosting the park voltage to your RV! Our "Sense circuit” automatically turns the 10% boost on when the park power is less than 117 volts and turns it off when the park power reaches 118 volts. Built in grounding continuity test offers protection against damage from open ground, open neutral or reverse polarity - if the light isn't on, do not use the power source! 1 per box.

Avoid brownout damage by boosting the park voltage to your RV. 50 amp Autoformer has increased capacity to 12,000 watts, with a fully automatic 10% boost when needed. Internal transformer increases volts and lowers amps, while sophisticated circuitry monitors power levels and boosts if power is less than 117 volts. Includes park power diagnostic light, as well as boost indicator lights for both lines, spike and surge protection and polarity and ground test functions. Weatherproof

[David and Jo-Anna]

OK, now I'm confused as well. I can see situations where the Autoformer could come in handy to boost low campground voltage to try to keep your devices running without damage. I can also see situations where you would benefit from the Surge Guard device that shuts down, and resets a couple of minutes later, in the event it senses voltage that is either too high or too low.

But I would think the logical setup would be to put the Autoformer ahead of the Surge Guard so that you give the Autoformer a chance to boost the voltage up enough to run things safely. Downstream you would have the Surge Guard to shut the path down, at least temporarily, if the voltage drops too low for the Autoformer to offset.

But then that would leave the Autoformer unprotected from serious voltage spikes. It sounds like a voltage spike would fry the Autoformer--making it a one-time surge protector. Expensive!!! So logically you should put a less expensive surge protector just upstream of the Autoformer to protect it from voltage spikes. But then things are getting both complicated and expensive.

Am I missing something basic here? How does one juggle all these competing alternatives?

[ols1932]

David,
You have it right. However, with the autoformer connected between the surge protector and CG power, if you do get a surge it won't necessarily fry the autoformer. The Hughes autoformer is pretty well protected. If it wasn't they would have a hard time selling them. The surge guard just provides some extra protection. I have both and use them when both when the voltage is low. If I have 110-115 volts at the CG power receptacle I don't use the autoformer but I do use the surge protector. If the voltage at the CG power receptacle is less than 110 volts, then I connect as you suggested. Certainly there can be some rare exceptions just like the two Frank's surge guards that I had that failed and they wouldn't stand behind them.

Orv

[MAMalody]

quote:Originally posted by skypilot

Mike (MAMalody): I thought that the SG was an autoreset device? You say youhad to reset a park breaker -- did the SurgeGuard trip it or was that a precautionary item on your part? (We also travel with pets so we'd like to have the system restore itself if possible.)

The SG is autoreset. It resets in 2 minutes 16 seconds. However, when the power first goes off, my habit is to smell the air and check the 5er panel. If nothing is thrown, I then check the camp box. How the camp box got tripped, I don't know. I think the SG tripped it. I checked with the office and they said they had some old lines and boxes out there. Ozz or somebody who speaks electric current may be able to explain what happened more than I can. When I reset the CG breaker, 2 minutes 16 seconds later my SG opened and I was ready for business.

[Tom Gina 06]

I believe that this should be an option or Std. equipment on every unit purchased prior to delivery. When we ordered ours in that was one of the things that I had included in the original price. All you need is one fry job high or low on your electronics and it will way more than pay for itself. We ordered the Surgeguard 50 AMP hard wired into the front storage compartment. Hard wired it because of two things space saving and theft.

[5rvers]

I too have the hard wired 50 Amp Surge Guard installed in the front storage compartment. During our last camping trip it shut down the power to the trailer due to low voltage while hooked up to 30 Amps. It came back up a few minutes later when the voltage was back to normal.

[David and Jo-Anna]

Orv--The way you alternate the setup of your Surge Guard and Autoformer makes sense for dealing with different voltage conditions in campgrounds. However, that seems to require that the devices are not hardwired in. As others have noted, I'd be inclined to hardwire in the Surge Guard both to prevent theft and to avoid the need for hooking up 30-50 amp adapters in various configurations since I normally expect to be using a 30 amp power cord but would feel inclined to go with 50 amp Surge Guard and Autoformer devices.

Anyone have any idea of a logical way to hardwire in both a Surge Guard and an Autoformer in a way that allows changing the configuration like Orv described in order to adjust to different CG voltages?

[H. John Kohl]

quote:Originally posted by David and Jo-Anna

Orv--SNIP--

Anyone have any idea of a logical way to hard-wire in both a Surge Guard and an Auto-former in a way that allows changing the configuration like Orv described in order to adjust to different CG voltages?

The only way I can see would be to put sockets in the battery compartment so you can "patch" the desired configuration. They would be permanently mounted in the battery area. You just plug in the unit(s) you want to use. This would be similar to the design where someone mounted the auto-former in the converter compartment and used plug and receptacle.

[ols1932]

quote:Originally posted by David and Jo-Anna

Orv--The way you alternate the setup of your Surge Guard and Autoformer makes sense for dealing with different voltage conditions in campgrounds. However, that seems to require that the devices are not hardwired in.

You're right David, but here again, you can lock the units to your rig with a bicycle cable. That's what I do. Even when I have them physically located under the rig behind the wheels (where they can't be readily seen), I lock them. But, as many have said, if there are people bent on thievery, they will take what they can get. I just make it a little harder for them, and if you are parked next to me you are likely to go out and question the potential thieves.

Orv

[stiles watson]

As I try to read through all the posts, I sense a cloud of confusion. I have been researching the issues for two days now and have come to the conclusion that often an apples discussion is being applied to an oranges issue.

I am not an electrician or an electrical engineer, but it appears that we want a single solution to multiple issues that may require different solutions to address different issues. I am trying to address about five threats to my electronic equipment:

• 1. Sudden excessive current (such as near lightening strike)
• 2. Low voltage from the CG power source
• 3. Surge through data lines
• 4. Surge through phone lines
• 5. Surge through cable

All these threats can fry the equipment connected to them. I have experienced such losses from all but the low voltage issue in my stick house.

From what I read, effective protection is different for the different types of threat because the voltages and currents are not the same for every kind of threat. So far I have found 11 different overvoltage protection devices. Each device has advantages and disadvantages. What manufacturers do is assemble a combination of the devices into a unit that addresses the problems according to their design philosophy.

My personal desire is to have devices to address all these threats even if I need to use multiple devices. I want them hard wired and mounted in a place that is not viewable or accessible to a casual passerby. Further, I want them to work seamlessly deal with the threat without my having to give it much attention. I don't want my power cut. I want the spike captured and discipated without interupting my service if possible.

I so appreciate the attention and the postings each one has given to these threats. It has sent me off to do my research, so I am grateful. Having said that, I haven't heard of a setup that is currently being used by anyone that I am comfortable in using as described. But thank you for your valuable input. If I get it figured out to my satisfaction, I will post it for others to shoot down.

[richfaa]

I want what you want Stiles. I have already spent big bucks on a Huges Autoformer and now it looks like we need a 50 amp Surge Protector which is also big bucks and I do understand that they do different things. We have a 30 amp surge protector from our previous camper..Can I use that with the 50amp Auto Former???I am not all that concerned about the theft issue as although we have all "heard" of such things and indeed it has happened to a couple of MOC'ers. In over 20 years of camping and C.G's we have no first hand knowledge of "theft" other than the "I heard it from's)

[David and Jo-Anna]

Stiles--Jeez, I'm finding it confusing enough trying to figure out how to protect against the first two items on your list--I'm going to try to protect myself from going crazy by deferring the last three items--I look forward to hearing about your solution to them.

Rich--I'll be curious to see what responses you get from those more knowledgeable about the issue you raise. Based on my limited knowedge, I would think your 30 amp surge protector (presumably connected to your power cord upstream of the autoformer) would protect both the autoformer and your rig from the lightening strikes. And the autoformer would protect against limited drops in CG voltage. I suspect you would still be theoretically vulnerable to CG voltages that are really low or are too high (without bbeing a big surge like a lightening strike). I just don't know how frequent problems like that are in CGs.

Orv--I'm curious to know what size (i.e., amps) your Surge Guard and Autoformer are and whether you need to use a variety of adapters when you do hookups. I suspect that I will most often be hooking up with a 30 amp power cord but might eventually migrate up to using the 50 amp cord if I add the 2d AC and/or the washer/dryer and am in a situation where I figure to have multiple appliances going at the same time. So I figure I should get the 50 amp versions of both the Surge Guard and Autoformer. That would seem to make for some interesting use of adapters if I follow your example and keep the devices beneath my rig. Just how do you deal with different power cords and adapters in your hookup? That's one advantage I see to hardwiring things in--just go with everything using 50 amp connectors somewhere like the front compartment that is downstream of the power cord going to the CG power pole.

John--one question--do you know where and how one taps into the incoming 50 amp power line in order to hardwire some of these components in the front compartment near the battery?

[ols1932]

quote:Originally posted by David and Jo-Anna


Orv--I'm curious to know what size (i.e., amps) your Surge Guard and Autoformer are and whether you need to use a variety of adapters when you do hookups.

David, I use a 30-amp Surge Guard when connected to 30- or 20-amp power. I only have a 50-amp autoformer so I use that when necessary with 50- and 30-amp power. I naturally use a 50-amp Surge Guard when connected with 50-amp power, though I could use it with 30-amp power, it just takes more adapters. When I use the 50-amp autoformer with 30-amp power, it takes a 30-amp male to 50-amp female, then plug in the autoformer. It then takes a 50-amp male to 30-amp female, then plug in a 30-amp cable or the 30-amp Surge Guard and then the 30-amp cable.

Because I hide my units out of sight behind the left wheels, I use an extra length of cable.

One thing a person has to be extra careful of is to make sure the connections are tight. Loose connections create heat when the current flows and will burn up the plugs.

You may have noticed, if you've done any living in your unit at all, that sometimes the male plug looks like it is melting and the pins are all discolored. That's from loose plugs. I try to keep mine as tight as possible. In fact I use a little extra precaution by wrapping a ty-wrap around the connection and pulling it tight. This prevents any loosening of the connection. When I get ready to leave I just snip the ty-wrap.

Actually, the fewer connections you can use, the better. But taking everything into consideration, low power, surges, thieves, etc., my setup works for me. Someone may say that it costs a lot of money to do what I do but this is my home, I don't have a stick house, so I invest what I think I need. If I were to get another home on wheels, I would consider having some of the stuff built in before I ever get it. The reason I don't have it built in right now is because we don't know if we will keep this one or not (everyone keeps talking about that 3400RL!!!)

Orv

[BirdingRVer]

I am leaning toward the hardwired solution but, if you were ever going to buy a TECH RESEARCH 50 Amp Surge Protector this price of $274.95 from RV Parts Outlet is a great price. I have no knowledge of this company and have never done business with them. I stumbled across this while surfing the Internet.
Click here. Url reduced by Admin

[rlrich]

That is a good price on that Surge Guard. The lowest priced one I had found was $359.10 at Camping World. One of the few things I have ever found to be less expensive at CW. I would also prefer the hardwired one. I think I would need to pay for installation. The wiring job doesn't look too difficult according to the instructions but I'm not sure where to access the main feeds coming into the trailer.

[BirdingRVer]

I checked with the local Camping World today and they quoted $308 for the hard wired Surge Guard and $135 to install. I made an appointment for next week to have it done.

[Hemlockusa]

I really do think we are missing a BET here. When you pull into a CG and give them the proper fee for the nightly stay. That includes water sewer and ELECTRICTY. Is that not a CONTRACT of some nature. Gosh I wish I had someone in the FAMILY beside """"TONY"""" I think if I got a spike or some other type of Electrical damage while hooked up to THEIR PROVIDED POWER, they and the electrical company would be responsible....... ANY OTHER QUESIONS?????????????? meet me at the BAHTABING and TONY and I will explain it to you. OH, we do Garbage and Trash too. LOL ho ho ho Later John TONY SAID HE WOULD SEE YOU ALL IN BRANSON MAY 07 Don't disapoint HIM...