Movement between Pinbox and front Cap - Montana Owners Club

gbroot · 10-26-2005, 03:45 PM

Is it normal to see vertical movement between the pinbox and the underside of the front cap while towing? (Mountaineer Model 328RLS - 2005) I have observed from ~1/2" to perhaps as much as 1" of vertical movement. The underside of the Front Cap is not loose to explain this movement. This vertical movement is easy to spot by using the Pinbox attachment bolt heads as a visual reference point while driving.

ols1932 · 10-26-2005, 04:14 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by gbroot

Is it normal to see vertical movement between the pinbox and the underside of the front cap while towing? (Mountaineer Model 328RLS - 2005) I have observed from ~1/2" to perhaps as much as 1" of vertical movement. The underside of the Front Cap is not loose to explain this movement. This vertical movement is easy to spot by using the Pinbox attachment bolt heads as a visual reference point while driving.

gbroot:
If you're talking about where the pin sits in the hitch on the truck, no, that is not normal. Your hitch should fit fairly snug and there shouldn't be any up-down (slop, I call it) movement where you can see a gap between the hitch and the front cap.

If you're using an extender of some kind and you're up-down movement seems to be a "flexing" then I'm way off base. I know nothing about their use and how they may go up and down.

You probably should have your hitch checked by someone in the area who understands our kinds of hookups.

Glenn and Lorraine · 10-27-2005, 02:01 AM

There was a previous post asking this same question and the answer back from the factory was YES it is normal. I will try to find that post or hopefully someone else will have the more official answer.

mobilrvn · 10-28-2005, 06:30 PM

You may have a serious problem. A while back there was a thread entitled, I think, "Bad hitch pin welds". Read that for better info. Keystone has a problem with the frames. Check along the corners of the frame where it goes down to the front jacks for movement there when the weight is on the hitch pin. The molding will pull away from the side.

ols1932 · 10-29-2005, 02:52 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Glenn and Lorraine

There was a previous post asking this same question and the answer back from the factory was YES it is normal. I will try to find that post or hopefully someone else will have the more official answer.

It would really be helpful if we could find out who at Keystone said that the "looseness" (vertical up-down movement) in the hitch is normal. We have never had that kind of movement in all the 5th wheel rigs we have towed and we have used Reese, Drawtite, and now Trailer Saver hitches. It would appear that if you had this movement, every time you stopped or started out there would be a clunking sound. That is not normal.

Thunderman · 10-29-2005, 06:39 AM

I would think 1/2 inch might be normal. If it were flush, it would be difficult to hitch and unhitch the trailer.

8.1al · 10-29-2005, 06:53 AM

When I hitch up my pinbox will flex up almost 1 inch. On bumpy roads I can easily see that the pinbox is flexing the frame but some of this is to be expected with an extended pinbox. I called Keystone just to inquire as to what in"normal" and got the standard "ask your dealer" reply. Of course the dealer said "oh yeah, that's normal". I picked a spot on the pinbox, placed a tape measure there and marked a spot on the trailer with a pencil and recorder the distance. I now have a reference point and so far after 3500 miles and some really bumpy roads nothing has changed.

Thunderman · 10-29-2005, 07:02 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Thunderman

I would think 1/2 inch might be normal. If it were flush, it would be difficult to hitch and unhitch the trailer.

Forget the above, I did not have my facts straight. I was thinking difference between hitch and pin box. Sorry.

mobilrvn · 10-29-2005, 01:18 PM

The problem we had has been referred to as "frame flex". The first indication that we had a problem was what I would call excessive movement of the hitch pin as you go down the road, 1/2 to 1 1/2 inches. We had expreience a broken frame in our previous 5W, so I was well aware of what I was seeing. Again, it shows up with the weight on the hitch with movement of the molding along the bottom edge of the walls, especially pulling away where the frame curves down the front. It required a trip to the factory to get it fixed.

RADHAZJOE · 10-29-2005, 05:00 PM

Can we get a more detailed description of the molding movement. Is it inside or out. TX

tollmann · 10-30-2005, 03:38 PM

It is the outside molding that you look at. Check where the verticle molding on the back edge to the cap meets the horizontal across the bottom. Check this first with the unit unhitched and then with the unit hitched with the landing legs up. If there is ANY difference in that fit(you can see it in the bead of caulking) call customer service pronto. The service writer and the service manager at the Montana factory caught mine and made an appointment for its repair in their shop. It is a pretty major repair and it will take approx 7 hours for the to fix it. The difference on my 3670 at the caulk line was less than 1/8 inch. They were quite concerned at Montana. If you have 1/2 inch at the caulk line call Montana and get it fixed.

mobilrvn · 10-30-2005, 06:31 PM

Tollmann, you said it better than I did for sure. By the time we got to the factory, we had 48 problems besides the frame flex. It will cause more and more things to come apart as you go down the road. We are still fighting over repairs with the factory. They said that they warranted their work, but now they don't want to stand behind their promises. So if you go to the factory, get any promises in writing.

tollmann · 10-31-2005, 01:48 PM

mobilrvn, I have never had a problem with Montana's factory service. I saved the paper work from the repairs and they have stood behind everything that they promised.

RADHAZJOE · 11-01-2005, 11:09 AM

Thanks for all the info on this one. Our molding open up to 1/4 inch. Customer service at keystone said yes I have thwe problem and a fix is available. Take it toany keystone dealer, etc. and it will be fixed.
Ha. I am enroute from El Paso to East Coast over the next 1.5 months and have yet to find a dealer who says he can "fit me into his schedule."

What would happen if I towed all the way back to Hampton VA? Would I lose my trailor? My home dealer says he will get me in as soon as I get back. He assures me he can fix the problem and will but am I risking my life on towing that far (1500 miles)

DHenry · 11-01-2005, 03:51 PM

What does your home dealer say about how serious this problem is? Have you asked this question to Keystone or any of the dealers that you have tried to get to fix your unit? I would be very carefull about towing until I got the answer.

HamRad · 11-01-2005, 04:52 PM

RADHAZJOE,
Joe we were about 600 miles from home when we first noticed this same problem. I worried the whole way home but we had no problem making it home. Ours was moving about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch. Like I said.... it was scary but no trouble making it home. Of course you've got about twice as far to go as we did.

Our dealer was "swamped" so it did take a while for them to get it fixed. But the fix seems good. We've got about 2k miles on it since the fix and still looks like new.

You might just want to bite the bullet and find the nearest dealer and take the time to get it fixed. Any dealer should be able to fix it.

I posted a couple of pictures showing the molding movement. Not the best of pictures but it gives you an idea of what we saw. Inside in the bathroom there was also about 1/2 inch of movement of the cabinet with the sink in it. Didn't get any pics of it. If you go to my PictureTrail link and choose "generator" album you'll see the pics.

Good luck.

HamRad

RADHAZJOE · 11-02-2005, 02:31 AM

Hamrad
Can you describe what they did to fix this problem? Did they add bracing, reweld, etc.?
I have been a certified welder in the past and if I know what to do, I can probably fix the structural problems myself or with a little help from an iron works shop, etc. We can then let the cosmetic items go until December in Virginia when I can stay with our daughter for a few weeks.

Thanks again toyou, and all of MOC poster. The info here is really helpful

HamRad · 11-02-2005, 11:16 AM

Hello Joe,
I did not see then do the fix so do not know for sure what they did. However it is my understanding that they weld or re-weld any place that need it and they add some bracing. Someone on the forum posted not too long ago that to fix theirs Keystone sent some folks out to fix it. They did some bracing and some welding but had left over pieces. Made the guy wonder if they knew what they were doing.

Joe if you do welding then I'm sure you can fix it yourself. Once you drop the panels and get the insulation out of the way I think it becomes very clear as to what needs to be done. Keystone may actually have a kit of some sort. You might contact them and let them know you are a certified welder and maybe they will send you the kit.

The problem may be warranty and liability issues. But it certainly wouldn't hurt to ask!

Good luck.

HamRad

RADHAZJOE · 11-02-2005, 12:44 PM

Thanks HamRad

I think I found an authorized repair shop in Odessa. He is working with Keystone to see if he can fix it. Yes, I think warranty, Ins. liability might be an issue.

As I understand it, you are correct about the fix but I believe Keystone told him to acquire parts and materials locally. I will keep all posted here.

RADHAZJOE · 11-04-2005, 04:31 AM

Well, that didn't work, per my above message.
Keystone svc dept has been barely adeqyate when dealing direct. All they seem to do is refer you to a dealer.
My dealer's warranty dept has been outstanding. Dixie RV in Newport News, VA. Peggy cot all the dope from Keystone. They do NOT have a written procedure for fixing this problem, according to her. She did get some inspection tips to determine severity.

1. 1/2 inch flex is standard.
2. Molding pulling away from fiberglass/aluminum at the corner near the front landing gear, especially if the silicone caulk is pulling awat indicates further inspection is necessary. I have this but not severe.
3. Cracks inside or pulling away around molding near dressers can indicate severity and unit is unsafe to travel except to dealer until inspected and repair. I cannot see any indication of this. The problem is finding a dealer when you are on the road who can get you in, especially for a fix like this that requires welding, within even a month.
4. Additionally look for cracks in the main body fiberglass at the corners of the bed slide out in the 3400RL, when the slide is out. I also do not have this. If you do, call keystone right away. This means the ferame is flexing excessively and should be inspected now.

At this point, after extensive inspection myself, including looking at weld by partially loosening overhang undersheeting, I think my problem is not sever enough to spend an extra month in Texas just to get it looked at. I am proceeding carefully to Virginia Beach to home dealer who I trust and will fit me in.

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