High Quality Work

[richfaa]

In 2017, Thor was number one in the RV market with a 48% market share. Forest River was second with about 34% of the market, followed by Grand Design and Winnebago with about 3% each. In fiscal year 2017, 71% of the Thor's sales was in towable RVs, 27% in motorized RVs, with 2% in other segments. During that same period 91% of sales were in the United States.

BTW Thor has owned Airstream since 1980

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by richfaa

In 2017, Thor was number one in the RV market with a 48% market share. Forest River was second with about 34% of the market, followed by Grand Design and Winnebago with about 3% each. In fiscal year 2017, 71% of the Thor's sales was in towable RVs, 27% in motorized RVs, with 2% in other segments. During that same period 91% of sales were in the United States.

BTW Thor has owned Airstream since 1980

Winnebago bought Grand Design last year.

[mhs4771]

Just wait, before long all RV Dealers will be either Camping World or Lazy Days, both are buying up dealer ships right and left.

[Dam Worker]

Until we have a Japanese outfit start building RV'S we will still have a unit that has been shoddily built yo say the least. (Same as our cars and trucks used to be built) If you get one that has minimal problems then you are one of the lucky ones. Probably should have bought a lotto ticket. If you are like most of the rest of us you get tired of dealing with Keystone and the dealership and just start fixing things correctly yourself as you come to the conclusion that it will at least be done correctly.
Not trying to be negative but I am being honest.

Tom Marty

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by Dam Worker

Until we have a Japanese outfit start building RV'S we will still have a unit that has been shoddily built yo say the least. (Same as our cars and trucks used to be built) If you get one that has minimal problems then you are one of the lucky ones. Probably should have bought a lotto ticket. If you are like most of the rest of us you get tired of dealing with Keystone and the dealership and just start fixing things correctly yourself as you come to the conclusion that it will at least be done correctly.
Not trying to be negative but I am being honest.

Tom Marty

The Japanese is not the answer as transporting a 5er across the pond would be cost prohibitive excluding probable damage in shipping. The answer is within the industry. Dump the piecework pay scale and train people with a real work ethic. Give the employees time to do the job properly and the ability to move a problem off the line until fixed. Those things would add some cost but the saving in warranty payments will offset some of that. Add sales from positive comments and repeat sales and things look even better. Now, not the company or employees give a sh!t as the money rolls in.

[Phil P]

Hi

CaptnJohn

You will find that several of the Japanese vehicles are assembled in the US just like the major US builders. They key word here is “assembled”. The parts like the parts for the US manufacturers are manufactured outside the country.

Ricjfaa

Just like the rest of the builders Thor has purchased Airstream quality has gone downhill as well as the Class A and commercial buss units that Thor build before being purchased by the upper management.
Also “profits” include the principle payments to the finical intuits ‘Debit service” is the interest paid. Touting profits for the period that interest was artificial keep low is not a good indicator.


For background information on y post check the history of Houdaille Industries.

Here is a link https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...=.498a0a871f2e


“When the machine stopped” is a copyrighted book so there is no link provided for it if you are really interested it can be purchased from Amazon.



Phil P

[richfaa]

One has to ask why the Japanese have not purchases on of the RV companies that have gone out of business and built them here.

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by Phil P

Hi

CaptnJohn

You will find that several of the Japanese vehicles are assembled in the US just like the major US builders. They key word here is “assembled”. The parts like the parts for the US manufacturers are manufactured outside the country.

Ricjfaa

Just like the rest of the builders Thor has purchased Airstream quality has gone downhill as well as the Class A and commercial buss units that Thor build before being purchased by the upper management.
Also “profits” include the principle payments to the finical intuits ‘Debit service” is the interest paid. Touting profits for the period that interest was artificial keep low is not a good indicator.


For background information on y post check the history of Houdaille Industries.

Here is a link https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...=.498a0a871f2e


“When the machine stopped” is a copyrighted book so there is no link provided for it if you are really interested it can be purchased from Amazon.



Phil P

That is all that is done here now ~~~ assemble. Just change method of assembly by anyone. No special skills needed.

[richfaa]

Originally Posted by CaptnJohn

The Japanese is not the answer as transporting a 5er across the pond would be cost prohibitive excluding probable damage in shipping. The answer is within the industry. Dump the piecework pay scale and train people with a real work ethic. Give the employees time to do the job properly and the ability to move a problem off the line until fixed. Those things would add some cost but the saving in warranty payments will offset some of that. Add sales from positive comments and repeat sales and things look even better. Now, not the company or employees give a sh!t as the money rolls in.

The employee does what the company tells them to do. Company sets the work rules not the employee. I do not know what "piecework" means in the RV industry. There are a certain number of unit to be built on any particular day and when that number is reached the day is over. The employees are hourly employees. We have been on that line many times.

[dfb]

Just because Montana is the #1 fifth wheel in sales does not mean it's number one in quality, it means not enough choices.. Using very poor quality parts means very poor quality. I'm a high end buyer. Stereo equpment, Mcintosh, tv, oled.. Ram, LONGHORN.. If it costs 50 more for better carpet, charge me.. if it costs 10.00 more for better long lasting moulding, Charge me.. The money I pay for a product is not defective or cheap money.. Don't rip me off by charging me for low quality parts...id rather throw low quality items in the trash..

[dfb]

Originally Posted by Dam Worker

Until we have a Japanese outfit start building RV'S we will still have a unit that has been shoddily built yo say the least. (Same as our cars and trucks used to be built) If you get one that has minimal problems then you are one of the lucky ones. Probably should have bought a lotto ticket. If you are like most of the rest of us you get tired of dealing with Keystone and the dealership and just start fixing things correctly yourself as you come to the conclusion that it will at least be done correctly.
Not trying to be negative but I am being honest.

Tom Marty

Actually, AMERICANS CAN build great quality products if you can get a darn corporation out!..We made everything here...once share holders are more important than the customers thats the end of quality.. DISNEYLAND is a perfect example..Exremely high ticket prices.. KOA is another. High priced..The shareholders dont buy the products.The. Customers do..

[Wicked1]

Originally Posted by CaptnJohn

Winnebago bought Grand Design last year.

and to be honest I have talked to many GD owners of either the Reflection model that competes with the MHC/Cougar or the Solitute that competes with the Montana, and many of them are seriously unhappy as well so I don’t think there is a clear answer to who makes the best, but more so if the MFG and Dealer stand by your side to help you.

Tough market and the consumer has to be on top of their game to get stuff corrected and feel the pains of spending the money and not getting anywhere.

Doesn’t matter who you buy it from MFG wise but who gives you the service and support you need. Most dealers do not have qualified techs, so IMHO I have learned to fix most issues on my own butI am Mechanically inclined a lot of folks aren’t so they struggle.

[rgparker57]

Hello Rmorris.. I purchased a new 2018 montana high country 330 rl.. Love the floor plan.. However we have had over 25 problems and 20 or them are workman ship related.. You can read my posts.. Had three new problems today.. More pieces coming off on the inside of the coach that were not installed properly.. And today we had the first rain and the skylight in the bathroom is leaking.. Now the air conditioner cycles off and on ever 15 seconds.. If you purchase get a 10 year extended warranty..

[rgparker57]

Problems are continuing to mount up.. A/C cycles on and off every 15 seconds. Have tried all the fixes.. Auto fan, low fan, high fan, 50 amp with proper cord, the coach is new...

The skylight in the bathroom is leaking

The plastic tile on the wall is pealing off

Additional fascia has come off.


Thanks

[dfb]

Originally Posted by rgparker57

Problems are continuing to mount up.. A/C cycles on and off every 15 seconds. Have tried all the fixes.. Auto fan, low fan, high fan, 50 amp with proper cord, the coach is new...

The skylight in the bathroom is leaking

The plastic tile on the wall is pealing off

Additional fascia has come off.


Thanks

Have ac charge checked by hvac person, leaks come from top. Check caulking.,reglue tiles..screw the facia with screws.. id help if you were close..

[Rondo]

dfb-- In response to your comment about having the A/C charge checked by an hvac person-- the A/C units on rv's especially on fivers and tow campers are not rechargeable or being able to be checked for charge. There is no port to check the system like there is on s&b systems.

rgparker57-- Since your unit is a 2018 model and still under warranty, why haven't you taken it back to your dealer to use the warranty for any problems? That is what the warranty is for. Unfortunately, there are dealers that like to sell units but do not want to repair units because Keystone does not pay the dealership their outrageous charges for repairing or taking care of problems that arise. There is one specific company that is nationwide that likes to do this with exceptions in some areas the country. IF the dealer would just do a good PDI on the units when they come in and not just set it on the lot for sale we would not have near the problems that come up when we purchase it. A REALLY good PDI by the buyer is a must and the buyer must insist that the items found that are wrong in the PDI be fixed or they do not accept the unit.

[CaptnJohn]

Ask the AC manufacturer for a list of local authorized repair centers/mobile. Forget the dealer.

[rgparker57]

Good afternoon. I do have to say one issue was fixed with help from Keystone...They did send me a converter...Now on to the new problems. We are on the way back from Alaska we had to shorten our trip for several reasons..

1. Our passenger slide no longer functions. The cables on the pulleys inside have frayed and it does not work.. Called Keystone Customer service they said put a 2x4 in it...
2. The refrigerator quit working on gas. It has a E1 code.. Called the factory the said it needs a new board.... We had 30 pounds of fresh caught halibut in the freezer.. Gave it all away to the lucky people in the campground in TOK Alaska.. Only cost 400 to catch it.LOL
3. The water pump no longer works.
4. The air conditioner cycles on and off every 15 seconds.. Have tried every setting and no luck..
5. Did I mention the slide no longer works.
6. The water heater only works on propane. The electric unit does not heat.
7. The floor in the bathroom flexes about 3 inches right next to the heater vent.

All of this is on top of all the issues we have already reported.. Now it is a comedy of errors.....Every time we stop at a campground we wonder what is next. It has certainly taken the fun out of our 90 day trip to Alaska.. We should be back home on July 15. We are no longer comfortable with this Montana High Country Fifth Wheel.. If we have had then many issues in just 4 months what will happen in two years.

Keystone builds good products.. If not there would not be so many on the road.. But every now and again a Lemon does come from any and all factories.. We just hope they treat us right.. Thanks Gary

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by rgparker57

Good afternoon. I do have to say one issue was fixed with help from Keystone...They did send me a converter...Now on to the new problems. We are on the way back from Alaska we had to shorten our trip for several reasons..

1. Our passenger slide no longer functions. The cables on the pulleys inside have frayed and it does not work.. Called Keystone Customer service they said put a 2x4 in it...
2. The refrigerator quit working on gas. It has a E1 code.. Called the factory the said it needs a new board.... We had 30 pounds of fresh caught halibut in the freezer.. Gave it all away to the lucky people in the campground in TOK Alaska.. Only cost 400 to catch it.LOL
3. The water pump no longer works.
4. The air conditioner cycles on and off every 15 seconds.. Have tried every setting and no luck..
5. Did I mention the slide no longer works.
6. The water heater only works on propane. The electric unit does not heat.
7. The floor in the bathroom flexes about 3 inches right next to the heater vent.

All of this is on top of all the issues we have already reported.. Now it is a comedy of errors.....Every time we stop at a campground we wonder what is next. It has certainly taken the fun out of our 90 day trip to Alaska.. We should be back home on July 15. We are no longer comfortable with this Montana High Country Fifth Wheel.. If we have had then many issues in just 4 months what will happen in two years.

Keystone builds good products.. If not there would not be so many on the road.. But every now and again a Lemon does come from any and all factories.. We just hope they treat us right.. Thanks Gary

Well,,, sorry to hear all that! Glad my '17 HC has had almost zero problems in thousands of miles and a few hundred nights.
1st I would never take my 5er to any dealer for AC, refer, or HW tank problems and my dealer has been great. For those I'd call the manufacturer and ask for a list of mobile techs authorized to repair under warranty.
The slide should be an easy fix once the reason for the cable fray is found. The floor ~ that is a good question. Water intrusion so soon? Or the vent hole cut too large or in the wrong place on 1st try?
Dealers are far behind. By the time they get parts in or an authorization an independent can have some items fixed.

[Texan]

Originally Posted by richfaa

One has to ask why the Japanese have not purchases on of the RV companies that have gone out of business and built them here.

I bought an Datsun pickup back in 1971 that rode like a buckboard but it was built better than any of the 'Big Three'. Datsun, Toyota, and a few years later Honda caused Ford, Chevy and Chrysler to step up and take notice as to the quality of the Japanese auto industry. Our cars and trucks today would not be the quality they are now if it wasn't for the Japanese. Someday there will be an Japanese or Chinese company start or buy an existing rv company that will bring the quality up to a different level that we have never seen and it is well overdue. It's a shame we have to let the Japanese or Chinese show us what quality looks like because our rv industry won't make quality products without being forced to. Many of us on this forum may never experience a well built rv because of our age but some day someone will as they say 'Build a better mouse trap'.