Unhappy Montana owner right now!

[richfaa]

Originally Posted by cw3jason

The fall rally may have something to do with it, but it all starts at the dealer. I had a crack in my front side, my dealer was awesome and after a few failed attempts by them and the body shop, they contacted Keystone and got Keystone to pick up my trailer, bring it to the factory and return it back to the dealer when the work was done. There are a lot of reasons some people get good customer service and others don't, but it all starts at the dealer level.

This is true and another reason why we feel some get preferential treatment. There is no dealer to deal with at the fall rally.

[Golfmedik]

I've tried to be very careful in not "bad mouthing" Keystone. All I set out to do was to document my incident and let others be the judge. Although at times you can tell that I've been extremely PO'd, I've stuck to the facts or fiction as it was given. I realize that you get good and bad products in everything you buy from cars to personal items, but how I rate a company is how they deal with the problem. I'm lucky that I have a great dealer. I've purchased three brand new 5ers form them in the last six years and they know me well. I've had dealings with Forest River as I've said before and to date, they've been much more responsive and helpful than what I've seen from Keystone thus far. If any of you get the RV Business Weekly, you will see that most all of the bigger companies are now hiring PR firms and people to search the net for information related to their products. According to a few RV Techs that have their own businesses, there seems to be a shift in the bigger companies' thought processes regarding customer service. As for my posts in the four forums I frequent, my posts have been read over 110,000 times with 4500 posts. They have been foolish to discount social media until now and it will only get worse. I learned a long time ago that I must remain courteous and professional when dealing with problems. People who know me personally have been questioning my behavior since this started as they know I don't deal with idiots well. I'm not calling Keystone "idiots", I'm just saying that typically I lose my cool rather quickly when people have done things in which they know better. I've simply tried to tell my story and let you guys draw your own conclusions. And most of them are the same. I'm both encouraged and discouraged by others who have posted here. Only time will tell as to how this will play out. As for those who say for me to trade the unit. we would lose a good bit of money doing that right now with the unit being a year old tomorrow, but we haven't ruled that out completely as we've found a new Cardinal 3950TZ Estate Edition that we love. But as for our current unit on a positive note, if the weld is plated and secured as they are telling me it will be, I don't think we'll have to worry about this particular issue again. But, if not done properly, then maybe we will. We are both just tired of not being able to use our rig as we have our others for the last seven years. We camp every three weeks, year round and have had to miss the last three trips that our fellow campers have gotten to go on. But I can guarantee you, if we miss my son's spring break trip due to this, after they agreed to have it back three times now, you will get to see the side of me you haven't seen yet. Not a threat, just a promise. This has been nothing short of absurd.

[dieselguy]

I don't think "preferential treatment" is really the word here. I think it is more luck of the draw as to residency or ... what your definition of a "small jaunt" back to the factory is. How well one controls his/her frustration during conversations is also key to good results. Sometimes you just have to bite it and smile till after you're satisfied.
I was typing a response to others while you were posting ... I fully understand your current primary position on keeping the Montana. The reason I have mentioned jettisoning the unit is money isn't everything ... blood pressure and sanity trumps cash. No matter how well it appears to be in one usable piece when you get it back, you'll always be cocked and loaded for the next issue ... and there will be one ... you haven't had it in use long enough to not expect another issue.

[DarMar]

Originally Posted by bigskyjimmy

True that! it is getting a little old there Phil we feel for Golfmedic and he is giving us all the info and keeping everybody updated and we appreciate his posts but you have been just been Piling on so can ya just move on to some other subject? WE GET IT you will never buy another Thor but the majority love ours and would buy another in a heartbeat (3 for me)

I absolutely couldn't agree more. Just don't understand what the end game is. IF we were to never want to purchase another Thor product I would just walk away from the forum as well. What purpose is there to continue logging in here just to pile on??

I think a lot of us mostly happy Montana owners are finding this behavior simply old and tiring!!!JMHO

[mlh]

Golfmedic I appreciate your post here. I would be and would have been from the very start for Keystone to have avoided all of this. Do what is right and fix the camper.
Lynwood

[richfaa]

We have found that after one year of absolutely no problems at all with this 13 3402 Big sky and it is not like it has been standing still with one road trip of over 5500 miles and a year to date total of over 8K miles, we have increased confidence in the Montana. It was mostly the failure of 4 holding tanks one of them my fault that got on my nerves. Actually other than that was have not had a serious problem.


Your issues have been unbelievable .I am sure I would have dumped the Montana if i had your problems and treatment. In fact we did dump a Rv not a keystone product after one year of nothing but problems.


I have the feeling you will have a much better than new Montana when the service center is done with it.

[Phil P]

Hi

My ordeal went on for 18 months before Holmes had his second in command just tell me to go away they weren’t going to help. That was documented on this form starting about 2011.

I spent $20,000.00 to correct the problems. I think this give me the right to talk about it. Like some here I have had people looking at the trailer just make statements like I was just sourer apples on keystone but that suddenly stops when we get to the sewer outlet and they couldn’t even glue the end cap on straight. This is the one Item I will not correct.

I never said I didn’t like the trailer I just didn’t like the poor workmanship and the response from keystone when trying to get it repaired.

We like the trailer so much we are considering spending the money to refurbish it and keep it another 8 years.

My metal structures engineer gave me instructions on how to repair the frame when it failed so it would hold up properly. The trailer now has 100,000 miles on it and the last frame failure was in 2013 and I had that repaired in Missouri in accordance with my engineer’s instructions.

The one thing I will complement Keystone on is the aluminum house frame this is holding up very well but it looks like that is where Golfmedik’s problem is located.

My problem is this for 6 years back in the 70’s as the operations manager for a distributor for a product I received the product from the manufacturer at the factory. When I received a product with problems this manufacturer would make light of it and like keystone make comments like nobody else has these problems. The problems continued on with little or no corrections to the production system.

Does this sound familiar Keystone became aware of the frame flex problem in 2008 has it been corrected?

Then I went to work for a dealer for the same type of product sold at comparable prices but different manufacturer. The first production run of a new model product always resulted in production discrepancies. When these appeared I would point them out and refuse the product. This manufacture would review the problem and determine why it happened and correct the production line to prevent it from happening again. They even had to shut the line down one time and recall all products produced on that line sense it was open because a jig had been set out of alignment and their quality control had missed this.

Now here we are 40 years later and I will let you guess which one is still in business and it defiantly isn’t the first one.

Phil P

[Golfmedik]

Originally Posted by dieselguy

I... I fully understand your current primary position on keeping the Montana. The reason I have mentioned jettisoning the unit is money isn't everything ... blood pressure and sanity trumps cash. No matter how well it appears to be in one usable piece when you get it back, you'll always be cocked and loaded for the next issue ... and there will be one ... you haven't had it in use long enough to not expect another issue.

And I've laid awake many nights already thinking the same thing. My next question to myself then is, "What next if that happens?"

[bigskyjimmy]

Phil we get it for the love of God man lets just here what Golfmedik's progress on his issues are on HIS post and you can start a new post on your issues you have had in the past.....Yikes and please the Readers Digest version

[DarMar]

Originally Posted by Golfmedik

And I've laid awake many nights already thinking the same thing. My next question to myself then is, "What next if that happens?"

Sad but true. We hope that your unit finally comes back to you in perfect condition, as many firmly believe, but that final resolution will not erase all those frustrating memories etched in one's mind.

In our case, not even close to your frustration, after 3 cooling unit failures we knew even if we repaired the latest we would daily be looking at that temp display anticipating the next failure.

Totally understandable and perhaps the only way to have piece of mind again is to just move on to another unit. Of course that is your decision alone to make.

Wishing for you eventual piece of mind.

[JandC]

Originally Posted by bigskyjimmy

Phil we get it for the love of God man lets just here what Golfmedik's progress on his issues are on HIS post and you can start a new post on your issues you have had in the past.....Yikes and please the Readers Digest version

X2!!! What he said.

[richfaa]

Originally Posted by DarMar

Sad but true. We hope that your unit finally comes back to you in perfect condition, as many firmly believe, but that final resolution will not erase all those frustrating memories etched in one's mind.

In our case, not even close to your frustration, after 3 cooling unit failures we knew even if we repaired the latest we would daily be looking at that temp display anticipating the next failure.

Totally understandable and perhaps the only way to have piece of mind again is to just move on to another unit. Of course that is your decision alone to make.

Wishing for you eventual piece of mind.

I can relate after all the holding tank failures we have had in two Montana's every time I hear water running I run outside to see if another tank failed, We had a heavy rain here the other day and I heard water pouring on the ground outside I ran outside looking for a failed tank then realized it was only rain water running off the roof.

[Phil P]

Hello richfaa

Remember how you were treated after all of your posting about how much trouble you were having.

It looks like some people never learn.

Phil P

[richfaa]

I have been a harsh critic of Keystone/ Montana a over the years since we purchased our 2006 3400.We have many post on quality, workmanship and I believe we have reported every major failure and how it was addressed by Keystone Montana.


We have said more than once that we have not always got our way but have always been treated fairly and with dignity and respect.
2006 Montana 3400....5 year report.. From 2011 MOC forum.
We were 5 years old in May of 2011 and been on the road as long timers since then. Between the two trucks that we pulled this with a conservative estimate of mileage on the old girl is pushing 50K. We did 25K on the first truck and this truck is over 40K and I figure 80% of that was pulling the 3400 since we use the truck for little else.

The 3400 is showing signs of wear.Not falling apart or anything but well used. The major upgrade on it was the Mor Ryde IS system that we felt was necessary considering the miles pulled and the hard use. We got the upgraded brakes from Dexter at the last rally.

Our Graphics are finally showing wear. Most are still perfect but some are starting to peel and shrink and in a couple of spots are lifting from the gel coat?? From a few steps away all looks normal.

We have never had a leak..anywhere. Cleaned the roof today and it is dirty but in very good shape. Never had a hydraulic problem all the slides work just fine . The slide toppers are in good condition no rips or tears. The main awning is faded and is drying out (Florida and AZ sun) Think we will upgrade to a electric awning at the fall rally.

No frame problems although the service center did reinforce the front end.

The carpet that I did not think would last 3 years is in excellent condition. Helen cleans it with her Kirby system twice a year.

The cabinets and woodwork are in good shape execpt were the &^%$##
bird Gnawed on them.

we had our share of nuisance problems and of course the "melt down" at quartz site within the first six months we had it..due to..shoddy workmanship at the factory of which I never let Keystone forget about although they went above and beyond to get us repaired and on the road.

For those that recently purchased hope this may give you some idea of the reliability of these guys.. They are labor intensive and you got to keep after them. Keystone/Montana and the service center have been outstanding over the years. That does not mean I get my way all the time.

When we purchased this 3400 we figured that it would last 5 to 7 years the way we planned to use it. It has exceeded our expectations after 5 years.


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06-02-2011, 05:38 PM #2 CasaDelSol
Montana Master

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sun City Center
Posts: 626
M.O.C. #8563


We have a 2006 2955RL

[mlh]

Rich has very diligent on reporting the good, the bad and the ugly about his camper over the years. Hats off to you Rich.
Lynwood

[Golfmedik]

I could only hope that ours will be problem free except normal wear after we get it back. I'm just not expecting it as of now. But time will tell.

[Golfmedik]

I received two emails today from Keystone. One from the floor manager and one from the case manager. She sent pics as well. The two upper square aluminum tubes were supposed to be filled with wood just like the bottom one is. As a result, the screws that were placed through them only pulled out and did not hold. The other pic you will see is the break in the joint underneath the slide. What has not been sent is the pic of the break in the steel Lippert frame that supposedly started all of this.

[richfaa]

That was done on our 06 3400 as well as our 13 3402 big sky. That is a fairly common problem that Keystone is well aware of. They have been doing that repair for years.

[DarMar]

Originally Posted by richfaa

That was done on our 06 3400 as well as our 13 3402 big sky. That is a fairly common problem that Keystone is well aware of. They have been doing that repair for years.

Really begs the question "WHY?"

Just doesn't make sense. One always believed the cost to correct the problem after the fact is far superior to making corrective changes during the production.

[Mudchief]

Thanks for the pictures. Hope they send you pictures of the frame. I have the same problem on our unit as you do.