Congress names names in FEMA probe - Montana Owners Club

lwcdg · 07-09-2008, 07:01 PM

As the article is on MSN now it could spell the end to 4 mfgs (Keystone RV, Gulf Stream, Pilgrim International, Forest River)because of the filing of a class action suit against the companies.

Keystone being one of the companies listed could be in for a financial loss. Only time will tell.
Chuck

SlickWillie · 07-10-2008, 04:18 AM

According to RV News Service there are more than 4 RV manufacturers involved. Can't say I have much sympathy for the manufacturers, they should have been on top of the formaldehyde issue years ago. While I have disdain for the huge attorney fees that are typically awarded in these cases, it is the only way ordinary individuals can fight the large corporations. It'll be interesting to watch this case unfold.

Mrs. CountryGuy · 07-10-2008, 04:34 AM

Not that my thoughts mean a hill of beans!!

But, isn't formaldehyde present in carpet, whether it is in your home on wheels or your stickbuilt home?? And, in a lot of other building materials that are used in more than our rolling houses??

Isn't this a health situation like "lead" in paint, etc?? It should be addressed in wider terms than just RVs??

Sorry, might be a bit off topic here.

HamRad · 07-10-2008, 05:12 AM

Carol,

Good point. And the stuff that was in the water down in the NO area after Katrina...... I can't imagine how awful that must have been/be!

But part of the problem that I see with what is happening now is that at least one of the companies KNEW the levels of the chemical were too high but chose to do nothing about it! Now that might be a problem.

Oh well. Stuff happens. Can you imagine how bad the mold and mildew must be!!!!!

Later,

Dennis

SlickWillie · 07-10-2008, 05:41 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Mrs. CountryGuy

Not that my thoughts mean a hill of beans!!

But, isn't formaldehyde present in carpet, whether it is in your home on wheels or your stickbuilt home?? And, in a lot of other building materials that are used in more than our rolling houses??

Isn't this a health situation like "lead" in paint, etc?? It should be addressed in wider terms than just RVs??

Sorry, might be a bit off topic here.

I don't believe formaldehyde is used in the manufacture process of carpet now days in the US. Of course, where might our RV carpet come from? China ya think? Manufactured housing is regulated, but I don't think those regulations carry over to the RV industry. One of the biggest issues with formaldehyde was a foam insulation once used in residences. Not sure when, but that stuff was banned years ago.

Now, I could get started on New Orleans, but that would be off topic, so I'll save that rant for another day.

skypilot · 07-10-2008, 05:42 AM

Am I missing something (Again ??), but Keystone, Forest River and the others don't make the woodflooring, the carpets or the 'glue', they are the end-users of those products as they assemble a 'home away from home' for many of us (not to mention modular homes, and the like as well). I guess I see this as 'lets get the first big target we can' type of affair -- the suits should really be against the carpet, glue, and wood suppliers -- Maybe that will be the next suit -- Keystone and others suing their suppliers. (Where does this end!!!????? )

I just went back and reread the article hyperlinked above -- they are suing saying that the companies failed to notify the government that this stuff had health risks??? I posted several months ago on another thread links and findings where the EPA and OSHA, as well the various industries, have Material Handling Data Sheets out that delineate these dangers, acceptable limits, etc.... I hope this gets thrown out --- while I agree that these folks have been through a lot, lets get real about this. Just talking to my wife on this a bit - she made a good point -- 'If it stinks that bad, then open the Expletive Deleted window!!! Air it out and get on with life!' Nuff said!

Bob & Lee · 07-10-2008, 06:05 AM

I just looked over the link and will read it better later, but I didnt see Keystone. Thor was mentioned and they make about 9 diffrent RV's. we thought we had a problem in our last 04 Montana but as it aged it went away. Our new 07 we have had no problems, I think it was on the lot for a while and aired out and dryed.

Bob

Bob

SlickWillie · 07-10-2008, 06:15 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by skypilot

Am I missing something (Again ??), but Keystone, Forest River and the others don't make the woodflooring, the carpets or the 'glue', they are the end-users of those products as they assemble a 'home away from home' for many of us (not to mention modular homes, and the like as well). I guess I see this as 'lets get the first big target we can' type of affair -- the suits should really be against the carpet, glue, and wood suppliers -- Maybe that will be the next suit -- Keystone and others suing their suppliers. (Where does this end!!!????? )

I just went back and reread the article hyperlinked above -- they are suing saying that the companies failed to notify the government that this stuff had health risks??? I posted several months ago on another thread links and findings where the EPA and OSHA, as well the various industries, have Material Handling Data Sheets out that delineate these dangers, acceptable limits, etc.... I hope this gets thrown out --- while I agree that these folks have been through a lot, lets get real about this. Just talking to my wife on this a bit - she made a good point -- 'If it stinks that bad, then open the Expletive Deleted window!!! Air it out and get on with life!' Nuff said!

So if I beat someone with a baseball bat the bat manufacturer is responsible? Manufacturers should have a responsibility to manufacture a safe product, or at least warn of unsafe conditions. If there are MSDS available on the products that are used in the manufacture of RVs that warn of toxins, why not pass them own to the consumer. I'm sure if the suit has no merit, it will be dismissed. Why not let justice be served, and let the courts decide? I for one will be interested to see just where these products are manufactured and what levels of formaldehyde they release; I live in one.

PowellsMonty · 07-10-2008, 06:21 AM

Will, yup! Just like Smith & Wesson kills dopers.

SlickWillie · 07-10-2008, 06:24 AM

Keystone is listed on page 16 in this document filed in March.

Exnavydiver · 07-10-2008, 12:15 PM

I just went through that list and it looks like just about every RV maker and a good portion of the makers of Manufactured homes in the south as well as the FEMA and others are named. Sort of a shot gun attack, if it don't hit one it is bound to hit somebody sooner or later. I counted 20 different RV manufacturers or suppliers, the rest are manufacturers and builders of homes. What a shame... Dave and Betsy

SAndreasen · 07-10-2008, 12:34 PM

I agree with Skypilot, 'If it stinks that bad, then open the Expletive Deleted window!!! Air it out and get on with life!'. Our daughter has a favorite saying: "Put you big girl panties on and deal with it!"

richfaa · 07-11-2008, 11:36 AM

formaldehyde is widely used in the building industry, Rv's and otherwise...Google it..very educational.. It can be more dangerous in a confined area such as a Rv and when exposed to high heat and closed up. It is a issue that everyone , The Rv manufacturers, FEMA, The Government, etc knew about.The only folks that did not know about it are folks like you and me and the folks that were given the FEMA RV's to live in. Did FEMA advise everyone that the RV contained formaldehyde and may be harmful to your health.... Did any of our dealers or the manufacturer inform us that foremaldehyde was used in our campers and could harm your health or how to deal with it. Did the dealer say..Oh that smell..just open the windows ..it will go away..did he say it was formaldehyde???? Would we have the same attitude if us or our loved ones were affected by formaldehyde levels in our campers. It is wrong and it needs to be fixed.

skypilot · 07-11-2008, 12:40 PM

I'm not disagreeing with anyone that the manufacturers are in the mix and partially to blame, I'm just saying that they (the one's starting the suit) also need to look at the suppliers that put the flooring, carpets, wallboards, etc. together to begin with. If the manufacturers of the original building materials built a quality, non-formaldehyde using product, then the RV industry should (and hopefully would) use that product.

Is the bat maker at fault for how the bat is used, in my own mind -- NO!! -- however, in our legal system the injured party is allowed to sue all concerned so suits are placed from the person welding the bat all the way (potentially) to the person who cut down the tree from which the bat was made. Our system has grown to allow this, and in that, we are one of the few nations in the world that allow such suits and depth to occur (at least as far as I know and can find in very quick research).

What gets me, and it goes back to my original post, my Mother and Father taught me some basic skills -- one is to open the windows and let the stink out if it was too bad. Be it from the cooking, the dogs, or our own 'bathroom skills', I still practice that skill to this day on occassion.

**Rondo** · 07-11-2008, 01:29 PM

This whole thing is not going to be settled with us here on MOC but in a court of law that now has seemed to take on any and all challenges that anyone wants to bring up! Yes, the manufacturer of the homes/trailers or whatever are somewhat to blame but they are just doing their job of making these homes or homes away from home and putting them out to the public for their use! The biggest problem here is that there are some down in New Orleans and surrounding areas that want to make the fast and easy buck and it doesn't matter to them when, where or who they go after or affect! Yes, their health is a concern to me but let's use some "grey matter" when things like this come up! Yes, the formaldehyde problem is an issue but it's also the "brass" in FEMA and any other government divisions that could care less on anyone's problems. They are out for their paycheck and the quick solution to any possible problem that may come up to them. OK, I'm off my soapbox but common sense can only tell you to open windows if the smell is bad and air the place out if you don't like the smell! In our case,if you smelled gas would you contact an attorney and file on everyone from the bottling company for the propane to the multi-million dollar companies producing it from the wells? Why not file on the States or Nations that are letting these companies drill the wells! Admit it folks, we have become a "Get rich the easy way nation through the court system!!! This is MHO only!!

SlickWillie · 07-11-2008, 02:50 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

formaldehyde is widely used in the building industry, Rv's and otherwise...Google it..very educational.. It can be more dangerous in a confined area such as a Rv and when exposed to high heat and closed up. It is a issue that everyone , The Rv manufacturers, FEMA, The Government, etc knew about.The only folks that did not know about it are folks like you and me and the folks that were given the FEMA RV's to live in. Did FEMA advise everyone that the RV contained formaldehyde and may be harmful to your health.... Did any of our dealers or the manufacturer inform us that foremaldehyde was used in our campers and could harm your health or how to deal with it. Did the dealer say..Oh that smell..just open the windows ..it will go away..did he say it was formaldehyde???? Would we have the same attitude if us or our loved ones were affected by formaldehyde levels in our campers. It is wrong and it needs to be fixed.

Very good post Rich! Might I say Amen? This issue really concerns me. I suppose I was really ignorant of the formaldehyde in the RVs, until the FEMA trailer issue arose, although I do recall the issue with residential insulation. I suffer from asthma and COPD from numerous years of exposure to lignite dust. Had I known of the formaldehyde danger, I'm not sure if I would have taken the full timing path. Oh well, we've been in it for 1 1/2 years now, so surely we have breathed it all up.

richfaa · 07-11-2008, 03:29 PM

Airing out the house or RV because you burnt the Pork Chops or the dog got to close to a skunk is one thing. Formaldehyde as another thing. Under certain conditions that are amplified in a RV Formaldehyde can be, no is, very harmful. This is not a case of a Bad smell..this is a toxic material that is harmful to our health. The class action no matter how silly some of us feel it is will draw attention to a potentially dangerous situation and it makes no difference who is harmed.. those unfortunate folks in a FEMA trailer or us in our nice Montana's. I would be glad to add my name to a class action suit concerning formaldehyde in my camper. As we said..it is wrong and it needs to be fixed..

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