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Old 01-14-2009, 06:04 PM   #1
tgrucelski
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Mor-Ryde shackle failure. Edit: Dexter Axle?

Greetings All:

On edit, perhaps incorrect terminology. Area in question is the axle to leaf spring connection via an "alignment block"/ saddle and and pin arrangement. U-Bolts still intact although somewhat bent.

Read on:

Experienced what I would call a near miss this afternoon. Rolling through Tulsa, OK on the way to CA and going over the usual bump where bridge surface meets road surface, (nothing larger than your average interstate bump) I feel a jolt and the truck starts pulling funny. I look back to see smoke rolling out of the left rear tire and trailer tracking way to the left - as in half of the next lane. Got it safely pulled over onto the shoulder and step out to have a look.

It turns out the U-bolt around axle, block, leaf spring decided to part company; well, still attached but now all the way to the end of the spring.

I did a search but didn't find any other postings on this subject. Anyone else hear of or have this happen?

Got a towing company to help me out, first they winched the rear axle somewhat back in place and then chained the two axles together so that I could limp safely off the interstate and into a more manageable situation. From there they went and got their 54' lowboy and had me drive the whole rig up onto it for a transport to a heavy duty truck/trailer repair outfit for them to have a look at tomorrow.
Couple of scary bridge clearance moments going around downtown Tulsa and was listening to the guys talking on the radio - we were following behind in another one of their vehicles - about a motorist who had called in to the state patrol that we had gotten wedged under a bridge which wasn't the case anyway, the driver had stopped to let some air out of the lowboy bags to drop it down to a minimum.

My question for anyone with any experience on this subject to chime in with is what else could have been damaged? Towing guy said most likely the bolts were under or over tightened. Some rubber peeled off the outside edge of the tire where it rubbed on the fender skirt, will look more closely tomorrow. Still holding air but replace anyway and then both or all 4? (Mission tires) Is it as simple as a couple of new U bolts, alignment pin, etc for that wheel and we are on the road again or am I looking at something more serious?

Rig has the Mor-Ryde suspension, ~18 months old and ~10000 miles.
Dexter 7000# axles. What I do know is that the rig has always had a lean to the left due to the weight I guess of the fridge, range etc.

To be honest I am more than a little scared to hook up to it again after it's fixed, knowing if this had occurred say going through the mountains in AZ or wherever that I might not be writing this... Suffice it to say that if it had to happen it couldn't have been in a better place or we would have been stranded for a heck of a lot longer.

I did buy an extended warranty policy through XtraRide and was on the phone with them to get the ball rolling as far as a tow but will have to follow up with them as to what will need to be repaired.

Should I be calling Keystone, Dexter or Mor-Ryde on this as well?

Thanks for any input.
 
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Old 01-14-2009, 07:17 PM   #2
HamRad
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You should call Keystone and let them know what happened. But MorRyde will probably step forward and take care of the problem. I do not believe Dexter will be much involved. This is just my .02 cents worth of informaiton. Do not have the MorRyde stuff so do not speak from any direct experience. Just make sure it gets fixed so you will be comfortable towing it once again.

Best of luck.

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Old 01-15-2009, 12:48 AM   #3
H. John Kohl
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Do a visual inspection from the frame from the I beam out. There are brackets welded to the frame to support the kitchen slide. Make sure all those supports are in good condition.

Things happen for a reason and your angle was looking out for you.
Good luck and keep us updated please.
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Old 01-15-2009, 01:25 AM   #4
richfaa
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That sounds familiar.. Something similar happpend I think to a couple of MOC'ers.David & Jonna and snfexpress????
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Old 01-15-2009, 02:54 AM   #5
Delaine and Lindy
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Sorry for you problem. I have seen in many cases with a failure of a Mor/Ryde product. Mor/Ryde has always stepped up and fixed the problem. I would call Mor/Ryde and send pictures of the failure so they can see the item that failed. You will get great service from Mor/Ryde, we have been to Mor/Ryde in Elkhart and they are very Professional. Good Luck and glad no one was injured. GBY....
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Old 01-15-2009, 02:59 AM   #6
capn chris
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Check the spring hanger mounts and welds, too, to be sure they're solid and plumb.
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Old 01-15-2009, 06:07 PM   #7
tgrucelski
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Update:

Bottom line: AXLE U-BOLTS NOT TORQUED.

What I surmise happened is the spring set bounced/ shifted around enough to where it finally sheared off the spring set alignment bolt on that last bump, causing the 3 lower leaf segments to fly out. Axle then abruptly shifted rearward until it jammed against the spring hangers on the frame thereby shredding the tire on the sheetmetal and supports. U-bolts were still intact although bent.

Got on the phone with Keystone this a.m., they put me touch with Dexter as it appeared this would be all on them.

Numerous calls back and forth with Connie at Dexter Cust. Serv. - she was most helpful. Pics taken at her request and Keystone's and I retrieved the axle s/n - I don't have it handy at the moment but she was able to ascertain it had a build date of 08-16-07.

With our rig sitting at A-A-A Truck Repair in Tulsa after that hair-raising lowboy transport through downtown Tulsa, they jumped right on it this morning. The owner knew of an outfit called A&N Trailer who also happened to be a Dexter distributor. Connie helped out with what parts would be needed and luckily they had a new spring set on the shelf along with a tie plate plus an extra and a full set of U-bolts in case we found any others damaged. A&N also sells tires and had one that I could use for a new spare. Took the original spare and swapped it over to the aluminum wheel.

While we were waiting on the parts, I had the mechanic check the rest of the components. All of the spring-to-frame bolts were tight. However, when he got to the U-bolts, none of them were torqued to the required 70 ft/lbs. I watched as he turned most of them at least an 1/8 turn with only 50 on his wrench. Looks like whoever put these together did not finish the job, had a bad day or maybe it was his last. Whatever the reason, it's completely unacceptable.

I had some concerns about the alignment bolts on the remaining 3 axles and Connie had me speak with an engineer by the name of Duane there at Dexter. Now that I have an understanding I thought I would pass this along: The function of the alignment bolt is to hold the spring set together during assembly. A round head bolt is dropped through the upper leaf, a nut threaded onto the end protruding through the lower leaf and then the excess bolt cut off. This nut/ cutoff bolt then simply sits in a clearance hole in the bracket that is welded to the axle. The alignment bolt serves no function against shear forces, it is solely up to the U-bolts that sandwich the assembly together being at the proper torque.

I had asked if she had heard of any other incidents like this to which the reply was no. I had also asked if this was the sort of thing that might generate a recall notice to which the reply was also no. Not sure I like that response and may write a letter to them and Keystone since this could have been a much more serious incident.

Should I be more spun up about this? Here's the thing: I mean, ok it's an RV and you are going to have nuisance problems, I can live with that. This incident on the other hand could have easily turned into a life or death situation due to negligence. Any thoughts/ feedback appreciated. At the very least I thought it would be prudent to post the details on this forum with the hope it will save someone else the aggravation or worse.

At any rate, A-A-A had us out the door in around 4 hours and we are now in Amarillo, TX continuing on our way to sunny CA. Enough of the snow and sub-zero temps back home in WI.

Take care all, and in closing I would highly recommend checking the U-bolts on your rigs - an oz. or prevention worth a lb. of cure as they say.
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Old 01-16-2009, 03:13 AM   #8
ChuckD
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Sorry to hear of your problem and we are very happy it all worked out well for you . The torq is the first thing I will check in the spring. Thank you for the info you may have saved someones life. Chuck
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Old 01-16-2009, 04:53 AM   #9
bsmeaton
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Sorry for the aggravation. Do you have the pics available to post?

After reading a couple of times, it sounds like you are saying it was the Dexter U-bolt and not anything Mor-Ryde made? Scary for sure. I've had leaf springs break with similar results, but never the u-bolts fail or become loose.

As far as recourse - I imagine if the damage gets repaired, and a little lessons learned talk around the factory, thats probably the end of issue.

Please continue to keep us posted on progress.
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Old 01-16-2009, 02:12 PM   #10
noneck
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This is a scary thing...I'm wondering in the build process where the axles get bolted up?

Axles shipped to lippert? Frame created and axles bolted on there?

U-bolts are not meant to be re torqued after a long use period...if you ever did any off roader rebuilds you'll find these things twist and shear off when trying to dis-assemble.

Really glad you didn't get hurt and were aware enough to recognize the failure and get stopped before something catastrophic happened.
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:20 AM   #11
Fire5er
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The entire frame and suspension system Keystone uses is suspect in my opinion. We had a shackle bolt come loose and the spring dropped on one side of our 3400RL...our trailer was just two weeks old and we had not used it, only towed it home. We were out in our church's parking lot learning how to park the new trailer when I heard what sounded like a metal plate drop on the pavement. Had we not be moving very slow I would never have heard it. Had we been traveling down the road at highway speeds who knows how bad it would have been. Others here have posted about shackle bolts elongating and welds breaking on their suspensions and on the frame. I think Keystone needs to look at a better vendor for their frames and suppention...JMHO. We have had our 3400RL for two years now and we just love it and have had no other major problems.
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Old 01-17-2009, 03:13 PM   #12
snfexpress
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The problem is with Lippert. There are a few frame manufacturers, but Lippert gets the low bid and that is the bottom line. In order to get the low bid, they don't spend any more money than is absolutely necessary, and because trailers (as opposed to motorhomes) are not subject to Federal requirements, because they are not motor vehicles, there is no independent and binding testing.

The RVIA is a $65 cost that provides us with nothing as this group is voluntary and while they are supposed to liase with the government, I have never heard of any problems being communicated to our government.

The shackles should be gusseted and should be at least 1/4" in thickness, in my lay opinion, but derived from people who know of what they speak, including a representative of Lippert. But, remember, the vast majority of trailer and 5th wheel manufacturers use Lippert. Just look at K-Z who last year switched to Lippert in order to save money; and they are a family-owned company (one of the remaining few) who has an emotional component involved when making these choices.

The axles come from Dexter and are put on at the factory. When we toured the factory, we saw a plain frame, upside down in the first installation position, without any axles.

Now, after seemingly to degrade Lippert (which I am not), they were very helpful in my situation, including footing the bill to fix the shackles. I had to have a traveling welder visit the park where we were staying because I was unwilling to tow our 5er (a 2006 3400) some 45 miles to the nearest Montana dealer.

Original thread on this problem
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Old 01-17-2009, 03:35 PM   #13
bsmeaton
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Would agree - Lippert could really address strengthening the frame at the shackles and a few other places, especially after seeing what happened to yours Michael, and even David and Joanna's.
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Old 01-18-2009, 06:44 AM   #14
richfaa
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While touring the Lipperts factory on one of the fall rallies and asking the question Lippert did say that the frames were built to "manufacture" specifications. Lippert may build the frames but the manufacturer sets the specifications. Remember the manufacturer chooses all the vendor provided items, which is everything, and the quality of those items.I also recall the axles being stacked at the first station
and installed by Montana. Lippert has addressed every problem, all hydraulic related, since 06 with no problem.
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Old 01-18-2009, 06:48 AM   #15
bsmeaton
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I doubt the specification gets down the the detail of using a thin steel shackle poorly welded to the frame. The would have been Lippert's decision on thier own.
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Old 01-18-2009, 08:17 AM   #16
Fire5er
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I fully understand about low bids and them being a primary factor in causing issues....I work for the US Government. However, as with any contract, if the company purchasing the product doesn't hold the contractor responsible for providing the product to the standard and specifications of the contract that they agreed to then it is the purchasing companies issue. And if Keystone is not 1. assuring product quality from their vendors, and/or 2. if Keystone is purchasing a sub-quality product the responsibility is still Keystone's.
Example: US Navy spends Multi-Millions of dollars overhauling a submarine. The contractor completes the project and the Navy (Shipyard workers) has to re-work many of the systems in order for the sailors to go back to sea safely. Many times we either require the contractor to complete the work as outlined in the contract, or do the re-work ourself if the contractor is unable to meet the contract requirements. I think it was said by a few here on this forum before...if I have a problem with my Ford truck's engine I do not call the engine manufacture, I call Ford. Keystone needs to ensure their product is safe and reliable. JMHO
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Old 01-18-2009, 09:37 AM   #17
bsmeaton
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I agree with you in theory Fire5er. However, using the Federal Government as a parallel to Keystone is like comparing apples and oranges -

A) Fed government and it's employees are mostly exempt from any liability for fault from materials, structures, or systems they have procured. You can't sue the government.

B) As every government subcontractor knows - there is a "BS" adder for all government jobs because of the insanely rigorous level of specification and oversight they use, which is nowhere near the level of rigour Keystone would use to buy a frame.

C) The government has public accountability waving flags in front of their face instead of stockholders, so they can afford to "stop work" on a major construction project to go find another vendor suitable for their specs. Changing vendors for frames would be a huge and costly change for Keystone given the limited number of suppliers. Heck, if the federal government can't find a supplier, they go out to an under priveledged business, provide her with a new factory and equipment to get her started, and then take credit for serving small and minority businesses in the community.

I guess when the Liberty Ships where cracking in half and sinking at a rate of 2 a week during WWII, taking the arms and men with them, the Navy just shrugged and pointed the finger at Henry J. Kaiser as the subcontractor at fault.

Somewhere Lippert needs to take responsiblity for the failures we've been seeing.
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:24 AM   #18
Fire5er
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I don't want to high-jack this thread so I will not continue commenting on some of the great points you bring up bsmeaton...all I am saying is that Keystone needs to take ownership of some of not all of the ongoing issues with frame and suspension problems we have had reported here on this forum and other forums. The Navy has come a long way since WWII, and you would never see that happen again.
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