Montana up in smoke - Page 5 - Montana Owners Club

richfaa · 12-20-2006, 01:43 PM

This will be sort of a long post but it may be helpful. we did drop the Montana since we were in Quartzsite and were planning to see the sights. This is our normal, do it every time, set up procedure. Dropped the camper and moved the truck away. Hooked up power, hooked up sewer and water.Helen goes inside to let out the slides and I follow the slides around to insure the slides are coming out Ok and the seals are not folded in Remember this is a 06 3400. As I was walking around the front of the camper (the main slide is the last to come out)I smelled something burning and noted smoke coming out of the front/side compartment. I powered down the main pole power and ran in a powered down the converter..this might have taken 10 seconds,,I move fast for a old guy. I did tell Helen to abandon ship as the camper is on fire.The following is a direct quote from the RV Lifestyles worksheet.

Smoke from front compartment on coach-burned wire attached to in line ckt breaker behind batteries- Found burned wire to be charge line from 7 way plug.Found continunity to ground on black charge line wire to green wire and brown wire and red wire all run in bundle through coach-rewire all to correct. 2) Hydraulic fluid leaking from belly- found hydraulic line melted from contact with black wire- replaced hose to correct. End of story....

hazmic · 12-20-2006, 02:23 PM

I like the others are glad you are NOT hurt other maybe you feelings. I have a few questions. I was wondering if the incident was just a one time thing because I have not seen any other posts about a wire shorting out and causing a fire. Hopefully this was a one time thing. Me like others will be pulling the belly down to check our wiring. Maybe we can have a post open for quite some time and when others are doing the inspection they can let us know what they found and if this is a ongoing problem. There are a lot of people out there and the Monty's are sleeping for the winter. Is this just some sloppy workmanship or are all models this way or just one or two. How did you disconnect this so fast? Mine has a battery box that is screwed together[top and bottom].I installed some smaller screws so I could jerk off the cover but then you have the wing nuts on the battery to deal with. I think a heavy duty knife switch will be installed. I hope that this is just a one shot deal and not something ongoing. I think that keystone is fully aware of the problem and could be proven there could be liability issues. Keystone really dose make a fine product and they want there costumers happy and bad mouthing them probably won't get any one very far.

rvfirefighter · 12-20-2006, 03:28 PM

I feel we all like our Montana's, that is why I went straight for another one when I traded. I still can't understand if the original product is suffering because of its own popularity. They are having to build too many,too fast and things are lacking in quality of products and construction.
The price reflects the popularity of the industry, these units are too expensive to carry only a 1 year warranty, quality control should be better. Their are too many problems with these units, and they are new units.

David and Jo-Anna · 12-20-2006, 03:40 PM

Jezz--I've been away from the Tech Help forum for several days and just now noticed this thread. Jezz!!!! The thought of your close call is scarying the #$&%#&% out of me. For this to happen to Rich, after all the precautions he took and all the inspections he did, is really really scary. And just seconds away from a fire ball??? SECONDS???? Jezz!!!!!

Rich and Helen, Jo and I join in with everyone else in giving thanks that you came out of this without injury. That's obviously the biggie. But still very scary. And I'm sure it makes it hard to put this out of your mind and just relax in your Monty. Me, I'd be laying in bed all night long trying to see if I smelled any smoke.

At least it was good to hear that Keystone stepped in after the fact to get things fixed. However, I'm not at all confident that QC procedures at the factory are going to change enough to prevent these problems in the future.

On a lighter note, Rich, just what is your attitude towards Quartzsite now that things have "cooled down" a bit? My recollection is that Helen was the one keen on going there for the gem shows. Any chance she is going to get you to go back there in the future?

Illini Trekker · 12-20-2006, 03:49 PM

Mickey allot on this forum have installed a battery disconnect switch. This is what I installed

Here is a site that I purchased mine
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

Ozzie · 12-20-2006, 04:10 PM

Good point...I was thinking about how to disconnect quickly as well.
Where can one find such a cut off, and is that all you need?

richfaa · 12-20-2006, 05:16 PM

The newer Montana's have a battery disconnect switch in the docking station. It is said that everyone should experience Quartzsite at least once..Well we did and it is so logged. Quartzsite is, to us, part carnival, flea market and shanty town..we were not impressed and we have been to better flea markets.Camping out in the baron wilderness is not our cup of tea. Helen has no desire to take the camper back there. We MAY do a day trip down in the truck for the Gem show..it is just 74 miles down the road. We will say that it is a experience but one that we will not repeat.

David and Jo-Anna · 12-20-2006, 08:17 PM

Rich--I also expect to do at least a short trip to Quartzsite sometime in the future for the gem show and the Quartzsite experience. Wonder if I'll try to camp there or do the day trip that you are considering.

Technical question about the battery disconnect on the newer Montanas. I believe you indicated that, when you first smelled the smoke, you killed the AC power at the pole and then went inside to shut off the breaker for the converter. With the particular short circuit that you had, would it have also stopped the short circuit if you had flipped the battery disconnect switch rather than flipping the breaker for the converter? Just wondering as I don't know that I would have thought about flipping the converter's breaker under the stress of the moment.

refocused · 12-21-2006, 02:28 AM

DH called Keystone and talked to a Tech who was totally aware of this particular incident - told us it was definitely a fluke and not to worry, but, of course, I worry, so will check as much of everything out as possible before we hit the road!

noneck · 12-21-2006, 04:58 AM

Thanks DH of refocused...still would like a technical readout of this failure mode.
Chuck

richfaa · 12-21-2006, 05:18 AM

David..I never thought about the battery disconnect..stress of the moment I guess..I would assume that the parts (evidence) sent to Montana have not arrived for any kind of analysis. We do intend to stay on top of the issue and will report all that we learn..

Hemlockusa · 12-21-2006, 06:39 AM

A long time ago, I posted in the MONTANTA (WHAT YOU WOULD TELL THEM THREAD) Why they didn't provide a wiring diagram with each and every unit they deliver. They do not make that many MAJOR changes through the year models. It would not cost a great deal of expence to place their wire RUNS in protective conduit, heck cheap PVC is about $2.10 for ten foot!! They should provide each owner a diagram of the routing and identification of each wire.. This would assist everyone. I can't really think of two many products that don't come with a wiring chart for the owners of the product... IT WOULD ALSO GREATLY ASSIST """"OZZ"""" WITH ALL HIS MODIFICATIONS!!!!!!!! Safe Travels John

ols1932 · 12-21-2006, 06:46 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

The newer Montana's have a battery disconnect switch in the docking station. It is said that everyone should experience Quartzsite at least once..Well we did and it is so logged. Quartzsite is, to us, part carnival, flea market and shanty town..we were not impressed and we have been to better flea markets.Camping out in the baron wilderness is not our cup of tea. Helen has no desire to take the camper back there. We MAY do a day trip down in the truck for the Gem show..it is just 74 miles down the road. We will say that it is a experience but one that we will not repeat.

Rich,
Try Quartzite in January when the big shows are on. When La Mesa and all the big RV dealers are there is when the action is. You probably noticed all the open areas along the streets in Quartzite when you were there. Well, in January, there is not an open space. Every space is taken up with some type of vendor and it is easier and faster to walk from one end of the city to the other, east to west or vise-versa. I agree with you that it is nothing more than a huge flea market, but I have found some things there from time to time that I REALLY needed.

Orv

Les and Julie · 12-21-2006, 07:39 AM

Maybe I missed it in this thread. We need a safety shutdown procedure but don't know where the convertor is. Can anyone tell us?We have a 2004 3380RL

Thanks, Les

pokypa · 12-21-2006, 08:06 AM

After reading what happen to Rich & Helen, I was a little concern about our 2007 3400RL. I just came in from inspecting some of the wires at the rear leveling jacks and was amazed at what I saw. Wires are laying everywhere lose and rubbing against shape edges all along the back frame. I have never seen such poor workmanship in all my life. This is a new 3400RL that cost 48,000.00. I really don't want to spend another night in it. The breaker for the converter has triped twice in it. The dealer says unless it happens with them they don't know. If anyone is interested in purchasing it -- it's for sale. This is my first Monty and my last. Anybody wants a 2007 3400RL for 41,000.00 with a five year extended warranty contact me

richfaa · 12-21-2006, 09:27 AM

I understand your initial reaction to what you see,,,However the reality is that this is a RV industry issue and it is more than likely that you will see the same thing in a RV of another brand in the same price range..or perhaps a higher price range. I would go look at another brand and look up in there..you may see the same thing.

ols1932 · 12-21-2006, 10:03 AM

Pokypa,
I don't believe you'll find that it's as bad as you may think. I've had a lot of pull behind rigs, 5ers and TTs and every one of them had similar problems. We've had our rig since it was new in 2000 and have not had one electrical problem. Yes, I've seen the "rats nest" of wires throughout the belly of the rig, yet there doesn't seem to be any that are in any kind of danger. Now, here's some food for thoght: Unshielded wires carrying alternate current can induce interference into other circuits if wrapped with other wires. I'd rather take my chances with the wires being "a little loose" rather than wrapped with other wires. I could be wrong but I have experienced alternating current voltage interference with some of my other rigs.

Hang in there. There will be a lot of help you can get from others on this forum.

Orv

David and Jo-Anna · 12-21-2006, 01:06 PM

Sounds like we're dealing with risk taking and how much risk each of us is willing to accept. The problem that Rich had is very serious but rare--I don't think there are that many people who have reported that particular problem. But it's a risk given how the RV industry operates. So does it come down to --how much risk are we willing to take to enjoy this lifestyle in a rig that we can afford--as opposed to something costing twice as much, and weighing several thousand pounds more, that MAY have less risk of a problem like this? Having had a night to recover from the shock of what happened to Rich, I'm feeling more inclined to accept the risk. But we must each must decide for himself or herself.

nailbender · 12-21-2006, 01:45 PM

I agree with Orv about bundling wires together. In home building it has been a common practice to bundle romex wires in walls before entering electric panels. Building inspectors have been trying to stop this as the bundles of wire build up heat. Most electricians are starting to use plastic brackets that space the wires apart.

I know a aircraft mechanic that uses silicone ground wires that go through holes in small airplanes. I have used this method on my trailers I use for work and has worked well for several years.

I am thankful that Rick and Helen are safe and unhurt. The Monty can be repaired and hope they have many years of enjoyment with it.

sreigle · 12-21-2006, 02:29 PM

I'm going to check ours out after these reports but also have to say that this is our third new Montana since January 2001 and not one has had a significant electrical problem. And we've lived in these things fulltime and towed them somewhere around 75k miles since March 21, 2003.

A problem could still occur and I will check it out to minimize risk. What I'm trying to say is well over 20,000 Montanas have been built and this is the first one we've heard of with this problem. Prariepoodle had a similar but different problem so that is two Montanas.

If I were to avoid every product someone had a serious problem with my life would be awfully boring. I will take those problems to heart and try to ensure mine does not suffer the same fate, however.

And, yes, our prior two brands of fifthwheels were just as bad in the wiring department.

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