My New 3400RL - Montana Owners Club

rickfox · 11-14-2005, 01:32 PM

Good Evening All,

I now have a new 3400RL and the first place we took it to was the CAT scales. The hitch weight came in at 1,980# and the overall weight came in at 11,860#

The unit as weighed had the following differences over what I have been told the "typically manufactured" 3400RL contains:

1) 1 battery - 40#
2) 2 fully charged propane tanks - 60#
3) 4 slide awnings - 200#
4) Fireplace - 30#
5) Coffee table - 10#
6) Small amount of water - 10#
7) Miscellaneous - manual, sewer and water hose etc. - 20#

Adding the above extra weight (many are "guess" weights) yeilds a total of 370 additional pounds. If correct, the UVW would be in the range of 11,490#. Guessing that approximately 20% of the added weight (370#) was transmitted to the hitch would yeild a UVW hitch weight of 1,906#.

According to the latest published specs - the 09/05 brochure - the weights should be 11,710# and 2,165#. According to the current specs on the Montana website (which Montana personnel have told me are incorrect) the weights should be 11,280# and 1960#.

The bottom line on all this - in my opinion - you buy your trailer and you take your chances. For me, I am happy that the trailer turned out to be lighter than I expected, and the hitch weight turned out to be less than I expected - all good in my opinion.

With respect the the buying experience:
1) I got a 30% discount off the list price - they accepted my offer without much trouble so I probably could have gotten a little more.
2) We ordered it custom built from the factory on 10/25 and picked it up on 11/12 - and I'm not lying! Our dealer called the factory and asked them to make a few small changes to a unit that had just gone into manufacturing - no aluminum wheels, full size bed rather than king, sofa table, and quad slide awnings. All the rest of our requirements were typically what all spec. trailers were being built with. None of our changes required any contruction changes. What a deal!
3) We spent about 3 hours checking it out before acceptance. We found 3 small problems and 1 larger one - the bedroom slide needed to be adjusted. We will know more after our upcoming shakedown cruise.
4) The floor tile was a different color than we had previously seen, but both my wife and I liked it better and were thus pleasently suprised.
5) The tires are Mission 235/80R16E, which is different than many of the other trailers that have been delivered - see other threads on this topic. We don't know what to think of this at this time.
6) We were actually very pleased with the overall fit, finish, quality and workmanship. Overall, we are quite pleased!

If you are in the Texas area and looking to buy a Montana, call our sales guy, David Kidd with Fun Time RV at 817-829-4600. Tell him Rick Fox sent ya! Thus far, we are happy customers!

rickety · 11-14-2005, 01:44 PM

Congratualtions on the Monty!!! Phyllis and I love ours and are looking forward to moving in fulltime in February.,

Still have to wait for her to retire @$%#*& but thats ok.
Agian Congrats!!!!!

richfaa · 11-14-2005, 01:54 PM

AS I said..30% off MSVRP....You done real good. We have, thus far, a 30% off MSVRP quote for a 3670RL. We are encouraged to hear of your positive delivery experience.

rickfox · 11-14-2005, 02:10 PM

By the way Rich,

I was told by an undisclosed source that it is easier to get a good deal from the larger dealers. Although Keystone can not, and apparently does not offer pricing discounts to dealers - they treat them all the same - they apparently do offer all dealers volume pricing! Commit to buy a 100 units, and get "lower" volume pricing.

This equates to a higher profit margin for the large dealers, and a bigger possible discount for the smart buyer. I think I could have been a little smarter since I purchased from one of the largest 5th wheel dealers in the country.

Oh well, I probably missed only a couple of percentage points - who knows.

campbud · 11-14-2005, 02:15 PM

Congratulations on the new Monty!

Montana Sky · 11-14-2005, 02:15 PM

Rick,
Congratulations on your new 3400RL. I hope you love yours as much as I do mine! Best wishes for many, many happy miles to come.

richfaa · 11-14-2005, 03:42 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by rickfox

By the way Rich,

I was told by an undisclosed source that it is easier to get a good deal from the larger dealers. Although Keystone can not, and apparently does not offer pricing discounts to dealers - they treat them all the same - they apparently do offer all dealers volume pricing! Commit to buy a 100 units, and get "lower" volume pricing.

This equates to a higher profit margin for the large dealers, and a bigger possible discount for the smart buyer. I think I could have been a little smarter since I purchased from one of the largest 5th wheel dealers in the country.

Oh well, I probably missed only a couple of percentage points - who knows.

I am sure that is true..The quote we got is NOT from a real large dealer.You did very well with 30%..very good job..Have fun...

5rvers · 11-14-2005, 11:18 PM

RickFox,

Congratulations on your new 3400RL!

Happy RVing!

sreigle · 11-15-2005, 08:28 AM

Congratulations, Rick, and thanks for a great post. Only thing I can see different is EACH full propane bottle will be about 60 lbs. Not a big deal in the overall scheme.

When you load it up with water and gear for a vacation, it'll likely be about 1500 lbs heavier. If fulltiming, I'd bet on 2500 lbs heavier. In any case, I appreciate hearing the numbers you found. Wish I'd done the same with ours.

rickfox · 11-15-2005, 10:00 AM

Steve,

Tell me more about the propane weights. It has been my assumption that the rig comes with empty tanks which weigh some amount of weight that should already be accounted for in the UVW. I often see the 60# number in trailer and 5er spec sheets. I therefore have always assumed that the propane gas itself weighs 60#, or 30# in each of 2 bottles.

But since I have never weighed them, I am only assuming, and you know what that can lead to!

rickfox · 11-15-2005, 12:13 PM

Good Evening All,

I have more information about my new 3400RL. Although I am currenty a happy customer, some of the things I have learned make my head hurt.

For example, as I mentioned above, I pulled the unit off the lot and directly to a CAT scale. After accounting for some extra weights including propane, battery and some other things, the unit weighed at 11,490#. The 09/05 brochure specs it at 11,710#, the Montana web site specs it at 11,280#. And, the sticker inside the cabinet wall specs it at 12,300#. That's a range of more than 1,000#!! It makes me wonder why Montana even bothers to spec any numbers at all. Even the speced length is one foot off.

Again, let me say that I am currently quite happy with my purchase and believe I will remain so. It just seems to me to be a shame that in many ways, you won't really know what you'll get until you get it. In my case I was happily suprised, but next time it could go the other way. We would all be up in arms, if our new cars came that way, or if our pay check or retirement check came that way!

The quality and design of the product seems to be there. Why make such a mess when telling the world about how great it is?

Another example is the tires. The 235/80R16E tires are rated at 3520# at 80 PSI, and the sticker on the rig says the cold PSI should be 80 PSI. And that's what the dealer said to put in them. However, according to Goodyear - a well known tire manufacturer, the tire pressure should be set to carry the load, and should not exceed the max rated PSI. Some rigs apparently have D rated tires, some E rates tires. Why run the tires to support 7,000# and the harsher ride that comes with it when the axles support only 6,000#. And, there is not a single word relating to the tires in all the documentation that came with the rig. And, to me the tires are a major SAFETY COMPONENT of the trailer. Since there is no paperwork, Am I to assume there is absolutely no warranty on these tires? I don't have a clue.

I purchased a Montana because my research indicated it to be a very good product, and I still believe this to be true. But it concerns me that portions of the company and the supporting documentation do not support that finding.

dsprik · 11-15-2005, 02:55 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by rickfox

It just seems to me to be a shame that in many ways, you won't really know what you'll get until you get it.

Maybe I'll find Al Capone's treasure in mine??? Too bad, Geraldo Rivera!!

On the serious side, that does seem very frustrating... even to someone who is not that detailed oriented. It's almost like each unit is custom made by a team that has their own ideas and philosphy about what their particular unit will look like.

I can't imagine how a same year model can vary from unit to unit by a foot in length and 1000# dry weight, out the factory door.

*On Edit ~ MIMF, are you out there? Maybe you can help explain these crazy specs?

jrgwdenner · 11-16-2005, 12:43 AM

Did you consider the weight change of the bed size change? When we were looking at a unit, the dealer actually took the particular unit we were looking at to the scale to see what it weighed so he must have known that each unit, even if it's the same model, has some variance when it weighs in. Some of the weight can be due to differences in shelving, weight of carpet/flooring, wood weight in the table, density of the wood in the cabinet doors, different propane bottle manufacturers, etc. Things that we can not see but are still there. (I'm just throwing out these ideas. There's not scientific knowledge behind them.)

Most of all I hope that you will get a great deal of enjoyment and safe travels out of a great model of the Montana. Enjoy!

rickfox · 11-16-2005, 03:36 AM

Judy,

It certainly is our plan to enjoy our new Monty. As I said earlier, thus far we are quite satisfied with the unit. I'm also vey happy to find out the actual weight of the unit was 800# lighter than the cabinet label indicated. This is a case where less is better than more.

sreigle · 11-17-2005, 05:15 AM

Rick, the rig comes with no propane tanks at all. The dealer adds those. So they're not included in the factory weight. Same for the battery. The 60# is for the weight of propane in the two tanks, combined. I don't think you get the full 60 lbs, though, as the safety valve shuts off the intake at something like 80% full. I forgot the actual weight of a full propane bottle. Someone here can tell us or stop by a propane dealer who sells by weight. I think it's around 67 lbs but am not positive about that.

rickfox · 11-17-2005, 05:32 AM

Steve,

Thanks for the info. It just makes things look even better since both the actual UVW and hitch pin as shipped from the factory would have been even lower. Thus far, I am still happy!

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