High Country VS Montana

[mtlakejim]

Wayne,


Granted they won't be for everyone but it is my impression that even so called "industry experts" were surprised at the interest.
Yep it was that "large segment" that I told GD and others they would attract and it is obviously coming true as they continue to come out with more versions. There are a LOT of empty nesters out there that enjoy things like motorcycles, ATVs and kayaking but don't want to give up living space to a full sized garage. That is the niche and it is a darn big one! Nearly everyone we camp with has some sort of toy. Even if you don't have toys the garage is really nice for storing your camping gear. There is a lot more room than even the biggest pass thru and it is far easier to get larger items out of......This concept just makes sense when you look at how most non full timers use their RVs. It is usually part of pursuing another hobby (for us kayaking and fishing)....

[RoadRunnerTR21]

When I saw the Montana (3791RD) and GD garage models sitting next to each other at the Dallas RV show last fall I thought YOWZA!!!!! That's what I'm talkin about! At the time we were thinking about going full time. What a solution. Then reality hit. When I looked at the cargo capacity I got real nervous. The 3791 is 2930 LBS. That means, to be compliant, everything we owned had to be within that range. That also includes water, food, black tank and worst of all... beer. Though we backed off of the full time concept it got me to looking at many of the longer coaches. What I found was more length ... less cargo which makes perfect logical sense to me. So as long as you put light weight things in the garage like yaks, fishing poles, bikes and such, it would be a great solution. Would a toy hauler solve the problem? Sure! The HC 380 has the ability to hold 4005 LBS. Why? Because it has 3 axles. Unfortunately the floor plans on toy haulers don't fit the DW's taste. Like I said earlier, that's why there are all kinds of options. Pick what's right for you and enjoy the heck out of it. Cheers!

[AZ Traveler]

Originally Posted by waynemoore

I am seeing that a garage is becoming more and more important to a large segment of RV buyers. I for one do not need that as I don't hall arround ATVs or kayaks. But that being said Keystone take note there is a market for a high end toyholler type rig. Common Keystone grab a glove and get into the game.

Keystone already makes Fuzion and Raptor both high end toy haulers.

[richfaa]

We have had 2 Montana's and we are OK with them.I would purchase a High Country if it had the floor plan we wanted.In fact We would purchase the Keystone Cougar 5th wheel IMO there are more Cougars out there than Montana's. We are also not fans of the cable system on the slides.There are quality cable systems but Keystone does not put them on their products. Just my Opinion which means nothing.

[mtlakejim]

We are getting off the original subject and I am sure that the Forum correctness police will be chiming in shortly. Even if this discussion is civil and going about the way I would expect if we were sitting around a fire having a beer together.


I am simply replying to those above and I hope that doesn't offend anyone:


AZ,
Respectfully, there are MAJOR differences between conventional toy haulers and the new basement garage concept:
First the fact that you don't lose all your living space to a utility style rear end.


Second, you don't have to unload the toys to enjoy your living space. They can stay in the garage till you need them. That protects the toys from both the elements and potential thieves.


Third, the back end of conventional toy haulers are utility areas. Builders have tried their best to make them into something they don't do very well and that is entertainment areas and again to use them as such you have to unload the toys.


Fourth, and maybe the biggest of all for us. The basement toy hauler concept allows for rear bedroom and massive front living room floor plan. For sure we absolutely hate the conventional toy hauler tiny living room concept where you in most cases are either breaking your neck sideways to look at a tv or sitting practically in the screen. That is totally unacceptable to both the wife and I. On the other hand we absolutely love our giant living room in the 381TH! That floor plan makes us feel almost like we are at home in the S&B.


Before we found the longer garage of the Keystone we were ready to buy a very high end front living room (we had given up on Grand Design making their garage long enough). We would have had to carry our kayaks on the roof of the TV and could not have carried our motorcycle or jet ski! You have to understand how important it is for us to be able to carry both the kayaks and the motorcycle. The motorcycle is our second shuttle vehicle that we use to get back to the RV when we float. It is a very big deal to us! Not to mention it is nice to have the bike for cruising around.


Road Runner, I am with you on the concerns for cargo weight capacity but we only travel with our tanks empty and cannot imagine why anyone would travel with their waste tanks full??? Maybe a little water in the fresh water tank for flushing on the road at the most? Our Keystone 381TH is a 3 axle unit. But granted we wouldn't mind one with even more cargo capacity. At present it should be fine for a motorcycle and kayaks though.

[AZ Traveler]

Jim,

Was not trying to say you should buy a particular TH, was only highlighting to Wayne that Keystone already makes several THs.

[speedster100]

Cool.... Wish they'd of been out in 2015..... Do like our 3790rd but would luv to have the storage and my golf cart.....

[tooth ferry]

At the MOC rallies it seems the HC owners are just as happy with their units as the MONTANA owners are with theirs and both may have some problems but I do not see that the Montana owners have way less problems than the HCs. We feel fortunate to be able to have a HC and don't think that having a higher price unit would make us better people. We are very pleased with and proud of our HC and have not seen another 5er that would fit our wants and needs any better. This is supposed to be fun not an ego trip.

[mtlakejim]

Well said Tooth ferry.


AZ,


I might be mistaken but I think Wayne was suggesting that Keystone should be making HIGH END toy hauler/basement garage units not conventional toy haulers. There are dozens of mid level conventional toy hauler floor plans for those young families that need the room but are on a budget. With the exception of the new basement garage units there aren't any floor plans that cater to the mature market segment who want a more luxurious unit.


These new basement garage units are NOT conventional toy haulers and to put them in the same category is a mistake and confuses potential owners. They are mid to high end (particularly the Grand Design) units that are capable of hauling some toys without giving up luxury living space. Exactly what the mature weekend warriors chasing toy based fun need! The industry now realizes that is a very large segment of their customer base and considering how well these units are selling I suspect we will see more floor plans in this NEW genre.

[waynemoore]

Originally Posted by mtlakejim

Well said Tooth ferry.


AZ,


I might be mistaken but I think Wayne was suggesting that Keystone should be making HIGH END toy hauler/basement garage units not conventional toy haulers. There are dozens of mid level conventional toy hauler floor plans for those young families that need the room but are on a budget. With the exception of the new basement garage units there aren't any floor plans that cater to the mature market segment who want a more luxurious unit.


These new basement garage units are NOT conventional toy haulers and to put them in the same category is a mistake and confuses potential owners. They are mid to high end (particularly the Grand Design) units that are capable of hauling some toys without giving up luxury living space. Exactly what the mature weekend warriors chasing toy based fun need! The industry now realizes that is a very large segment of their customer base and considering how well these units are selling I suspect we will see more floor plans in this NEW genre.

Yep that is what is was trying to say. Until this topic started I was unaware of this type of RV. Doing some research I have be very surprised at the versatility of this HC. If I was a younger man I would most definitely be looking at this type of RV. But at 75 and more importantly with the group I associate with (friends and most of our family) are just not into ATVs or at least not into them enough for me to spent the money to buy one. We live by a large lake here in AZ and have had the boats and personal water crafts all the toys but our life style has changed. It changes mostly because of the Montana now we are almost never home. We are on the road. Also the grand kids are now having their own kids so they don't have the time to spend weeks with us at the lake. When they do come to visit it's for a few days. The last year we had the boat it was not in the water one time it's just not good to let it sit like that even though it was kept in the garage.
Ok sorry I am way of the topic . But what I am trying to say is people have different needs and wants and like us it sometimes takes several tries to fine the rig that fits we are on our third one.

[mtlakejim]

Wayne,
I'm with you. I suspect that most folks needs change as they live their life. Both the wife and I are relatively young widowers (both in our 50s). Having that wake up call early in life made us realize we needed to live life LARGE! I can't tell you the number of diesel pushers we looked at where the story was always the same "we waited all our lives to retire and buy our dream but then he/she got sick".....As a result the wife and I have decided we aren't waiting to retire. We bought the nice RV and lots of toys. While we are still young we are going camping/floating/fishing/golfing/motorcycle riding and traveling as much as we can. As soon as we retire (in about 8 more years) we will immediately go on the road for extended trips and at that time may have to revisit what type of RV we really need...
Like you we live near a large lake. I used to be a serious tournament bass fisherman but sold my bass boat this past summer after realizing that it hadn't been on the water in over a year. I do nearly all my fishing now out of a kayak or with a friend crappie fishing. That's not to say there won't be another bass boat in my future. Or maybe a center console (if we snowbird to Florida that would come in handy!). It's just not where I am right now.


Live life LARGE my friend!

[CaptnJohn]

Could be a less expensive GD TH???

[mtlakejim]

Originally Posted by CaptnJohn

Could be a less expensive GD TH???

Nope high browed previous Montana owner getting what he deserves!

[Punch]

Originally Posted by mlh

The two campers are built for two different customers. The Montana for full or long timers. The HC for someone travels a month or so at the time. The Montana has a 12 inch frame it needs that as heavy as it is the HC weighing a ton or more less can use a 10 inch frame. The Montana slides are hydraulic with the bed room cable slide. The HC has all cable slides. Which is better? I think neither. They both have advantages. The Montana slides are very smooth. They are reliable and heavy. The HC saves 500 pounds with cable slides. If my HC cable breaks I can fix it in 30 minutes. I have made a repair kit to replace the cables. Any member here that needs one I will send it to you at no cost to replace a cable on a HC or your bedroom slide on your Montana.
The HCs are designed to be pulled with a 3/4 ton truck.
Lynwood

I need to replace a cable on my 310RE I would appreciate your repair kit

[Dave W]

A first comment - I joined this forum in July 2014 when we were first considering a Montana of some sort. I asked questions about the HC and immediately was 'dissed' by at least two Montana snobs and I bailed out as this was not a place for me. I decided to take another look not too long ago and saw that lots more HC owners were now here and posting. So far, so good.

Now with that off my chest, I've at least skimmed this entire thread and see that there are about as many happy HC owners as Montanas. Do I agree with some of the comments yes and no.

I'm not enthralled with cable slides but for sure they are better then Schwintek but not as good as the rack and pinion on the previous 5er, a Glendale Titanium. Hydraulic - well since I have no experience have to pass on that but feel that they are probably about the best way to go. Poor a/c performance - well when you have a 38 foot or longer 5er, 15,000 Btu just wont do that good a job so for a few hundred bucks, corrected that. Paint fading on the nose - the proactive dealer fixed ours before we took possession. I've also learned that many other Thor and Forest River brands suffer that problem too. Axles - Oh my! This is/was my biggest bone of contention but bigger outer bearings and a set of 6K springs fixed that for a couple hundred more bucks. Trim and fit problems - nary a problem though I did have to replace a broken bed room closet door slider post warranty. That was a PITA as lots of pieces had to come out first but the cost for repair - less then 25 bucks.and a day of work.

Have there been some other aches and pains - for sure but after 22,000 miles, nothing significant yet.

Final conclusion for me - a HC, the best bang for our bucks especially after looking at many higher as well as a few lower end units. It has a full kitchen counter, not a difficult to work on island. It has a great deal of room since we spend much of our summer at a seasonal CG. Have we seen newer 5ers that could work better for us, yes but not so that we want to rush out to buy one. You buy the TT or 5er that works best for you and your money and not what someone else thinks is best, Go your homework, don't let a dealer on commission convince you that something else is better. (We really liked that 41 foot 2018 Jayco Pinnacle)

[richfaa]

I keep it simple since I am simple.The HC has a lower cost than the Montana and remember there are two levels of Montana.The Montana and the Legacy .When I see a significant difference in price of the RV we are interested in I ask myself why is one higher than the other, were is the extra cost.

[mtlakejim]

Yep I kinda saw the sorta snobby attitude myself. The HC is only one that had the basement garage so choice was super easy for us. When we pull up and start pulling all our high dollar toys out it will shut them up! Especially when we go out in our kayaks while they have to sit on the beach....

If they start making the same floor plan in a higher trim model we will be all over it.

Besides, those snobs will all be silenced real quick by the first $$$ diesel pusher that pulls in....

As for us we got exactly what we want (after all I designed the floor plan). We don’t care how expensive someone else’s unit is. Ours is the only one that fits our very active lifestyle. The camper is just where we sleep after a hard day of play

[Dave W]

Originally Posted by richfaa

I keep it simple since I am simple.The HC has a lower cost than the Montana and remember there are two levels of Montana.The Montana and the Legacy .When I see a significant difference in price of the RV we are interested in I ask myself why is one higher than the other, were is the extra cost.

Not sure how much less a HC is then a Montana as ours had a sticker of just under $75K (which of course is just a fantasy $$ number on any RV)

[jking]

Dang, I bought a slightly used 2014 Montana cuz momma liked the floor plan and interior, I didn’t get the Memo that I was supposed to be “high brow” ! ��

[jking]

Our first Motor home was a 1987Blue Bird Wanderlodge that with a sticker of $465k which we got for a Whole lot less and I still couldn’t get the snob thing going. I guess I was raised Humble! BUT, that was PURE Quality Coach! Just no slides and old tech engine ��