A lemon year??? - Montana Owners Club

Wiarton William · 11-13-2007, 07:16 AM

I am new to the forum..although I have been Rving since 2004.. I bought a 2004 Keystone Sprinter in 04 and had a few problems with it, not near what others had, we spent a total of 16 months and approx 30.000 miles on the road in the last 3 years..I upgraded to Montana this year and expected that those sprinter problems would be a thing of the past.The quality of the build and the interior is far superior to what I had...I am now having my doubts as I read thru the different topics I cant help but think,,,"did I escape the fire to land in the pan" so to speak....after reading and watching It seems that most of the problems are with units that are 3-5 years old.. and mostly the 04 Montana 3400 series models... were the 04's a bad year or is it the time frame life span things that are popping up now???..dont anyone get upset Im just enquiring..

stiles watson · 11-13-2007, 08:24 AM

No one should get upset at an honest questions. Welcome to the forum. If you buy the most expensive coach available, you will still have problems. There is no manufacturer who doesn't. I think that 3400's first year was 2004. You seldom hear of the units that don't have issues because we all tend to talk about our problems rather than reporting a trouble free day.

I my opinion, to expect a trouble free unit is pie-in-the-sky thinking. I never expected a trouble free stick house. There was always something to fix or replace. The stick house wasn't subjected to the equivalent of 20 to 30 earthquakes like these RVs do when we take them on the road.

Dustytuu · 11-13-2007, 08:38 AM

We bought new a 2004 Montana 3295. It was an excellent unit and had no serious problems. We loved that coach and it will have a little place in our hearts for ever.

The only thing we had a problem with was, the main AC was replaced under warranty and 3 months later the fridge under warranty. The screen door was adjusted and one drawer was repaired. We put over 30,000 miles on it. No problems with the frame, roof, floors, plumbing, never had any leaks, or problems with furnace or anything else. Whoever gets that coach will get a great coach.

We traded for another brand because of the floor plan, It works for us for fulltiming.

levietta · 11-13-2007, 09:20 AM

My wife and I full-timed in a 1995 Travel Supreme for more than two years when it was brand new. This was an expensive 5er, even for its day. We had several problems, more than just minor ones...and took care of them one at a time. We traded it in, eventually, for a 1998 Holiday Rambler Endeavor Diesel pusher and had several serious problems with it. The ceiling leaked, the big windshield developed a leak and sang all the way to where ever we we traveling on the highways. The air bags developed leaks. Two bay doors loosened on their hinges. The awnings were faulty. We had this one shipped back to the factory, and they fixed everything at their own expense. We now have an '08 3000RK, and it is not perfect. In fact it is in the shop as we speak, having several things worked out on it. I have never experienced a perfect unit either, but I am happy to say that I have never had any trouble getting repairs done, either under warranty or otherwise. The manufacturers of these high-priced units do stand behind their product. While it is frustrating when something breaks or goes wrong, it is helpful (to me) to know that it will be repaired to my satisfaction.

MacDR50 · 11-13-2007, 09:36 AM

Willie: I, like you, am a bit aprehensive as I too read about all the problems. I have said to myself, "Should I buy this RV"? Some problems are major, many more minor and most/all seem to be fixed by responsible dealers. Keystone appears to be willing to stand by their warranty. The best designed vehicles have problems so I am partially reassured that, for the most part, my new Montana will be at least as good as any alternative. I have two big safety issues that I think are not acceptable. The first is the Mission tires. I have my own solution but Keystone needs to add margin to the axles and tires and do QA on offshore parts. The second shocker was the shackle problem. Cheap, low quality parts is not what we are paying for so again this is easily fixed. The frame twist seems to have been solved and IMHO may also be related to hitch and hazards. Everything else is pretty much within normal expected premature failure rates for any manufactured item. With more and more NA companies sourcing components offshore I expect failure rates will go up until consumers start socking it to these companies for nickel and diming quality away.

H. John Kohl · 11-13-2007, 09:54 AM

I think you will find more posts on problems than NO PROBLEMS. For that reason do not get discouraged. Look at the bright side you have a good reference on what to look for and experience on getting it fixed.

Welcome to the forum.
Cheers,

TLightning · 11-13-2007, 10:02 AM

The posts on the forum are aimed at solving problems. If all is well, as it is for most, you won't read..."everything is fine." For every problem mentioned, there are thousands of the same item that work fine.

Bob & Lee · 11-13-2007, 10:44 AM

I agree with TLightning you don't hear the good. Our first Montana was 2004 and we had only one problem in two years, the heater computer board went out and it was off warranty but the heater manfacture paid for the board but not the labor which I thought was good,we now have a 2007 3400 and extended warranty.. will be a year old in Dec and only problem was a day night shade broke and keystone sent me a new shade..

Glenn and Lorraine · 11-13-2007, 11:12 AM

Also consider the thousands of Montana's built in just 1 year. At 20 to 22 to per day it averages about 6,000 units per year. Montana first came out about 1998. That's about 9 years ago. Now granted they weren't building 6,000 rigs a year back than. In all probability maybe 3,000. So for the sake of argument let's say they averaged 4500 per year times 9 years. That's 40,500 Monty's.
Now the MOC has over 7800 registered members. Of that 7800 maybe, just maybe 500 are active contributors to this forum. Of that 500 we'll say 15 have reported problems each month or 180 per year. Using 180 problems per year since late 2002 when the MOC started or 5 years that number comes out to 900 problems.
Now I don't consider a loose screw, a draw that won't close, a small scratch, in other words nitpicking to be a problem. If I can fix it myself with no expense out of my pocket it ain't a problem worth discussing.

ANYWAY 900 problems reported in well over 40,000 units is a tiny drop in the pocket.

Now I know some of you are saying "900? He's nutz. We've seen way more than that."
Yes, You may very well have seen way more than those numbers but consider every time someone posts a problem with, we'll say the AC, everyone who has already posted his AC problem 2 weeks ago is back telling about his AC problem once again. If you are not paying close attention as to who posted what and how often you will begin to believe that there are WAY TO MANY AC PROBLEMS IN THE MONTY'S and so I'm gonna buy an SOB.

Please folks, let's try to put things into perspective.

Oh BTW, All those AC problems are not Montana problems but Dometic's problem. So when you go buy that SOB guess what? There's a 90% chance it will have a Dometic AC as Dometic supplies 90% of the ACs to all RV manufacturers.

Dustytuu · 11-13-2007, 11:55 AM

Yes Dometic replaced our AC and fridge under warranty. So we have had very minor problem with our Montana,

One drawer fix and screen door adjusted. All drawers and everything have held up for 3 years.

And will be a great coach for a long time.

rogue · 11-13-2007, 12:09 PM

Agree with Glenn, If you really look at it in prospective, there are not that many problems. Another example is Shackles. Maybe a dozen people have had problems. We now know this is a maintenance item that needs to be watched. But a dozen or even 24 out of 7800 MOC members seems very reasonable to me.

I too was thinking the other day since June when I bought my Montana and joined this Forum, there were a lot of problems. But then I started looking at the problems and how many are reporting they have the same problem. Its a very small number compared to all the members. And the others above are correct, we do not hear from all those who do not have problems.

I am glad those with problems, post them, so we have an idea of what to look out for in the future, or add to our maintenance list, or learn how to fix. Or think out side the box to do a temporary fix until you can get to a service center. Its a great learning place, just needs to be kept in the right prospective.

richfaa · 11-13-2007, 12:22 PM

We report problems here and fixes. That is a good thing. Quality and workmanship is NOT job one in the Rv industry and every brand suffers the same problems. There have been times here when folks posted a "help me with a problem "and had a fix within the hour..or less. I did not have a problem with my Montana today, or yesterday, or the day before...matter of fact haven't had a problem since April.. so there..

Wiarton William · 11-13-2007, 01:11 PM

A lot of great responses and valid opinons...I admit to the jitters in regards to the purchase(another keystone) but we reallly liked it...due to a minor misunderstanding with the Dr and my BP levels.. we would be using it right now in the RGV..I could settle in with the new unit rather than just look at it in the driveway.......spring is coming.. a couple of shake down cruises and we will be fine...

8.1al · 11-13-2007, 02:11 PM

Glenn,
Did you say you have a screw loose?? lol
Seriously what Glenn said is right. When I first joined the MOC I wondered what I had done buying a Montana. There are some problems but for the most part they are something to be aware of not afraid of. You don't hear from the majority that are having no problems

Parrothead · 11-13-2007, 02:31 PM

Okay, here goes the good. We have a 05 3400 and have had no major problems. It has now traveled over 10,000 miles. No leaks, no tire problems, no shackles, never went back to the dealer. The built in carpet shampooer doesn't work though. LOL
Happy trails...................

bncinwv · 11-13-2007, 02:34 PM

Glenn is correct, as a new owner, we have had minor problems that we have reported. All of our problems have been fixed with no problems under Keystones warranty with the assistance of a great dealer. The major problem we have seen is Brad's (bsmeaton) favorite appliance, the infamous Apollo 1/2 time oven. We are on our third now which we hope is the charmed one. (Sorry Brad, couldn't resist the kidding). The best advice out there is to use the rig as much as possible in the warranty period to shake out the problems at no cost. We will be purchasing an extended warranty, simply for a comfort zone considering some of the high priced accessories in these rigs. Overall, we are very, very happy with our Montana and have not regretted the decision to purchase ours at any time. Now the only other thing that I wish is that is was Friday and we were Florida bound, rather than sitting at the stick house posting on the greatest information source on the web with regards to our choice of a second home!!!!!
Bingo

rames14 · 11-13-2007, 03:26 PM

Wiarton -

This forum, IMHO, is what sets the Montana apart from the rest. You will find honest opinions and fixes from the members here. As you read through the posts, ask yourself if it is a Keystone problem or a supplier problem. All of the RV manufacturers use the same frames, furnaces, water heaters, refrigerators, tires, rims, sinks, etc. Having spent fifteen years in the auto industry, it is a very different world in the RV world. There are not wiring schematics, fixturing, prints, or control plans. Things are done through repetition. But, that is true at all of the manufacturers. Good luck with your Montana.

Wiarton William · 11-13-2007, 03:28 PM

We had a problem with the apollo 1/2 time oven too...I fixed it myself...couldnt get anyone to even attempt to fix it...they all said there was no parts for themm.. I managed to get the parts by calling the mfg...easy enough to repair and in doing so found the reason for the malfunction.......moisture in the heater element box(its just like a clothes dryer heat element)..rusts out the connections and then they break....the moisture comes for cooking humidity or from spraying cleaners on the oven interior surfaces...

texdeano · 11-13-2007, 04:35 PM

Except for the 1/2 time oven and mission tires we have really enjoyed our Montana and think it is as good as any in the price range.We are on our 4th 1/2 time and lost one tire with about 5000 miles so will get the rest of them off before heading south for the winter.

exav8tr · 11-13-2007, 04:47 PM

I think that what we are missing here is that out of the 40,500 Montana owners since their inception, WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE REPAIR RATE IS. Keystone is the only one that knows these figures and I don't think they will be releasing these anytime soon. The community of MOCers is a small microcosm of total onwers and as Glenn said, not everyone in the MOC is a contributor to this forum. Having said this I just want to say: I have NOT had any problems with my Apollo Oven, in fact DW loves it. I have not had any shackle probls in over 4500 miles of towing. I did have to rebuild the closet door holder in Bedroom. I placed hinges for electrical looms under Monty. I had the Missions replaced and warranty paid. I had a leak in shower that a dealer, not mine, repaired. I had a 50 amp cord replaced, one day night shade replaced. and currently have a small crack on kitchen counter, keep meaning to call Keystone about this.

I consider these problems part of the new coach sysdrome as we have all had new house syndrome, or new car syndrome.

I feel the proof in the pudding is how we are treated by Keystone and I have been treated well so far. Would I buy Keystone again? Without a doubt......

Sign me: One happy camper...........Phil

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