2010-3665RE Problems

[scductman]

Gary I am getting started tomorrow changing my brakes going to replace the backplace assy. I ordered a new set of national seals #412920 per dexter. in your post you stated the one seal you installed was 2.250 x 3.376 that is what I saw on dexters website but the ones I have are the same # but they are listed 2.250 x 3.371 on the box. It has me a little concerned but I guess I will see when I get them off. Its not that much diff hopeing for the best.
bobby

[GaryM]

Good luck with Transport Canada.

I know not much may get done with T/C but if there is a hope that they get the other 68 of the 70 axles that were installed (2 of which I have) off or repaired at leased it may save a life. Ya know there are people out there that probably think, that Gary is just wasting his time with Transport Canada. But you know if there was just one person that works for Keystone or Dexter that just cared just a little bit more or went out of there way to point out the poor workmanship we may just have a better quality RV today. I have 30 years in the construction industry and I know how much more the client appreciates that little extra a contractor puts into there work. And if properly supervised it cost very little for the contractor to provide that extra service.

I never really feel 100% confident towing my trailer.Maybe that is why I have turned into a nervous Nellie, checking everything twice.

I pulled my Triple-E I used to own for 11 years. With this Montana I really do spend way too much time looking in the mirrors as I am very unsure of what next to expect. It also takes your focus off other important aspects of pulling a RV. (I also have that hitch flex issue) I think I was less stressed supervising oil refinery shutdown than pulling the rv right now. I may have to go back to work to relax.

Now I am going to have to pull the drums and inspect the brakes even though I probably don't have more than 2000km on the trailer.

I would recommend you do this as I have been hearing that this is not an uncommon issue. Good luck.

Gary

[GaryM]

Gary I am getting started tomorrow changing my brakes going to replace the backplace assy. I ordered a new set of national seals #412920 per dexter. in your post you stated the one seal you installed was 2.250 x 3.376 that is what I saw on dexters website but the ones I have are the same # but they are listed 2.250 x 3.371 on the box. It has me a little concerned but I guess I will see when I get them off. Its not that much diff hopeing for the best.
bobby

Bobby, I would contact Dexter, Connie Massie @ customer Service about that one, PH# 574-296-7301, she almost always answers the phone when you call and is very helpful. That number is a direct line to her.
I would think that the outside diameter of the seals you have may be too loose when it is installed in the drum. But then again it is only 0.005 thousand. Then I may have made a typo. To be honest I do not recall what the O.D of the National 412920 seal and three Chicago Rawhide 22532 seals were. I will look tomorrow as it is dark out right now. I will not be able to try out those seals as they are some day going to install all new seals/drums/brakes etc over here.

We quickly did an inventory at the dealer here of what Dexter sent and I noticed that the supplied seals were 2.2333 I.D. I didn't look at the O.D. They also look very much like the National 412920 seal and three Chicago Rawhide 22532 seals. I will take a closer look next time I am at the dealers.

One more thing, with the new seals do a little measuring as you may find that the seal sits a little farther onto the spindle. The rubber portion is a little wider. You may find that it sits onto the rust dirt etc that is on the exposed part of the spindle. You may want to clean it up a bit. Before you install your new back plate/brake assembly install the drum with the seal in it. you will be able to see where the seal is riding on the spindle.

I found this info for you 3.371 is the bore 3.376 is the O.D.
They should be ok.

http://ecatalog.federalmogul.com/Part.aspx?pn=412920

Part # 412920
Shaft 2.25
Bore 3.371
OD 3.376
Width 0.375
Lip Material Nitrile
Series 410000
Type 41

http://www2.chicago-rawhide.com/popu...kup_457010.htm

Stock 22532*
Shaft 2.25
Bore 3.371
OD 3.376
Width 0.438
Type/Style CRWHA1
Lip R

Hope this helps,
Gary

[exav8tr]

Gary, Do you not have a "Lemon Law" in Canada. I would certainly look into that with all the problems you stated. I know not all US states have it but some on this forum have invoked it and received a new unit, of course you might end up with more problems with a newer one. Just a thought for what it's worth....

[scductman]

Thanks Gary I did talk to a lady at dexter and she is the one that told me to use the #412920 seals. I will clean and polish the spindle before I install the seals. I very much hope you get your montana repaired to your satisfaction. I have had some small problems with mine but nothing like yours. good luck
bobby

[GaryM]

Gary, Do you not have a "Lemon Law" in Canada.

It's not so much as a law, it is more of a consumer be aware.

If the info I provide to Transport Canada is sufficient enough through there investigation and deem it as an unsafe product, then they contact the manufacture.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/roadsafety/s...s-index-76.htm

"A major part of Transport Canada's mandate is the enforcement of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act, which includes the investigation into alleged manufacturing safety defects. When Canadians believe that a manufacturing defect may affect the safe operation of a vehicle, tire or child restraint without providing any prior warning to the vehicle operator or user they can contact the Defect Investigations and Recalls group. The Defects group will document the concern and an investigation may follow. The Recalls group monitors, documents and publishes all safety related recall campaigns that are issued by manufacturers as required under the Motor Vehicle Safety Act."

[Crossthread]

Regarding the photo of the seals and bearings staying on the spindle: The dexter manual states that a Permatex sealant is to be used on the seals. This would seal them to the hubs making it harder for the grease to push the seals out. It could be that that step was overlooked.
My right rear magnet wires were cut by the actuator arm, and I had grease on the shoes. The seal was still intact. I had never greased it. I wish you luck on getting the repairs done. Bill

[Concrete John]

1st,off ..WOW, hope everything works out for you , and you gain confidence back trailering(nothing worst )Just wanted to add as a diesel mechanic, i made it standard procedure to just use thread locker after i install new seals( also find a socket that fits the O.D. of the seal when installing(or seal installation tool)and tap evenly) < i'm sure you already know this, but for those that may not.Thread locker under extreme heat will not breakdown, it's been my experience that products(you name it ) has and will , end contaminating your linings.Also copper plus works well too. I own a 2011 3665re, and now thanks to this post , i will be pulling all the wheels and drums come spring. Wish you success with your issues, and seasons greetings Take care , John

[dieselguy]

If your new wheel seals have a teflon coating on the outer diameter of the seal, no sealant is required. If these were boat trailer axles, then I would apply sealant (rtv) to the outer diameter. A small block of wood or a piece of aluminum slightly larger than the seal along with a rubber hammer or deadblow works well as a seal installation combination. Place the seal on the wheel bore as straight as possible, then tap the wood or aluminum to seat the seal in the bore. Be sure to lube the seal lip as well as the seal land on the spindle with a small dab of grease before you put the wheel drum back on the spindle.

[GaryM]

Update:

Well things just keep getting better. It looks like we will have to stay here in Huachuca City till Dec 30/31 or maybe longer. Or maybe shorter as the Dealer said that they would squeeze us in if at all possible when the fridge parts come in. So now that I have 10 more days to waist I thought I would give an update. I think you may enjoy this one.

Out of frustration I called Dexter today to see if there was any other options to get the brakes/drums done. Bring in a mobile mechanic, local mechanic or even do it myself. And she said that I could do it myself. She asked me If I felt comfortable doing it and I told her that I am a steel fabricator and a 4th class power engineer. She laughed and said you know what your doing. Well I felt so relieved, all I was thinking about is now I can finally get out of here and move on. I asked how my installing the parts would affect the warranty and she said that I would still have coverage till Nov 2012. I asked about getting reimbursed for the drum and seals that I purchased and she gave me the claim# and told me to send her an e-mail include the claim# and I would get reimbursed. I was getting very excited at this point, thing are starting to look up. She would do up an e-mail with authorization for me to install the parts and send a copy to the dealer to let them know that I would pick up the parts and return the old parts for them to send back to Dexter. I said thanks and the conversation ended.

Then, Bamm....... the phone rings. It was my Canadian phone ringing. I answered it, it was Keystone customer service. She wanted to give me an update and explained that the dealer had my brake parts, that the axles were not going to be changed out, my fridge parts were on order, etc. Well I know all that all ready, where have you been? I asked her if she passed my e-mail onto a senior manager as per my e-mail and she avoided the question and fumbled some words. I told her when I could get a word in that I had made the arrangements with Dexter as explained the above. She asked me when I had talked to them and I said a few minutes ago. I explained that Dexter would send out an e-mail explaining that I could install the parts. She went on and on about I can't do that and I have to wait for the fridge part anyway so I have to stay here and wait for that. I explained that I didn't have to wait for nothing. I asked again if she past on my request for a senior manager and the question was avoided again. She would just keep ranting on about the fridge parts and there were no new axles coming. I then told her that I didn't care about the fridge. I said that if I have to pay to put in a new fridge then that is what I would do. I said to her that you need to focus on fixing one problem at a time and the main issue right now is the brake. I was starting to get upset at this point but I held back. I then told here that she called me on my Canadian phone and it is like $2.50 a minute. I told her she was to call me on the phone I purchased down here. She said that she didn't have my phone number. I said that she did, as she had called me on it before (Dec 2 twice). I told here that I would give her the #, hang up and then she could call me back or I would call her. She then said that she would put me on hold as she was going to call Dexter. I said no, hang up and call me back. She was persistent that she wanted to put me on hold while she called Dexter. I called out my U.S cell # and the asked if she was still there, she said yes. I said ok bye, call me back. I looked after talking to her I was on my Canadian phone with her for just over 8 minutes. She had no concern at all what it was costing me. She called me back and I said what else and she said that's about all I have to say. Am I dealing with a special person here I asked my small mind? Six minutes later she calls me back and tells me that it has been decided by her the dealer and another person (who's name I didn't catch, so I asked what the name was and she ignore the question) that it was in my best interest that the rv dealer install the brakes. I said In my best interest. Like the last dealer that installed the wrong brakes and seals. More fumbling of words from her. That we have to follow there protocol etc. I was close to hanging up.

There was a lot more said as we talked for 8 minutes.

I will also add that I think the whole problem here with customer service, what I can see so far is all based on just one individual and that is the person that answers the phone. I guess I will find out more when I get to the factory. And from what I hear and read I might just say adios Keystone warranty. Use my extended warranty or insurance or pay for what needs to get repaired. Oh, and I also mentioned that to her and she got upset and said that i could not do that. I remember some of the supervisors courses that I have taken over the years and control was a big part of them both in a good way and bad. But that is another topic we can talk about around a camp fire.

Below is a partial e-mail I sent keystone and the reply. It shows how Keystone did not want to be involved but now they are. And another telling me to deal with Keystone and not Dexter.

My e-mail to Keystone Customer Service:
I know that none of these problems were caused by Keystone. It was Dexter supplied equipment which caused all the problems in the first place. Then the quality of the work from ???? that continued my problems.

Just to get thing clear before I continue with this, does Keystone want to continue to be involved with these issues and help me to deal with this problem? I have not contacted ???? or Dexter in regards to the tire coming off the trailer or the improper/damaged seals installed.

Once again I thank you.
Gary Maisonneuve

The Reply from Keystone:
Gary-

Good Morning. Thank you for asking, I did have a good Thanksgiving. Hopefully, you did as well. I have all the emails documented in your file, but, to answer your question you need to contact Dexter direct. Dexter wants to be directly involved with their product and any issues that may occur. Dexter has a two year warranty on their product. You can reach Dexter directly at 574-295-7888. Please contact them and address the issue instead of waiting until you arrive at Pendleton in the spring. If I can be of further assistance, please let me know.

KEYSTONE RV COMPANY
Customer Service
Retail Advisor

From Dexter today after Keystone talked to them:
Good afternoon Mr. Maisonneuve,

I am sorry for any confusion regarding our prior phone conversation but we felt that it was necessary to send this e-mail so that everyone is aware of how the handling of the repairs needs to proceed. Please channel all further conversations and correspondence with Keystone RV for their handling. Keystone will then contact Dexter regarding our portion of the warranty claim.

If we can be of any further service please e-mail us as well as Keystone for their update.

Thank you!
Warranty Administrator
Dexter Axle Company

Thanks again for listening,

Gary