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Old 08-05-2010, 07:57 PM   #1
jerryh96
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Quality control

Does Keystone do any quality control before a rig leaves the factory? I just picked up my 2011 Mountaineer. The dealer found 3 items that needed to be fixed with parts ordered from the factory. My wife and I now have a list of 15 items that need to be fixed. One is the valve for city water/ tank fill is stuck in tank fill. Another item is the middle carpeted step, inside, is not fastened to the back, and would break if any weight were added. All the rest are minor, but should have been caught.
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Old 08-05-2010, 08:24 PM   #2
Trailer Trash 2
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sorry to hear about the new RV with problems. as you said some are not that big a deal, BUT....new should be New.
I think quite a few of us out there has had some kind of problem and some worst than yours. and the dealers service bay is where it should go while it is still under warintee (1 year) for the factory then manufactures take it from there. It can be a frustration for you but stuff happens. taske it in with your list and give it a good inspection when they say come and pick it up.

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Old 08-06-2010, 03:40 AM   #3
restez
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So far with our 2010 Mountaineer, we have found several small problems along with a couple major ones. The dealer has been good to us and as far as the small problems I find that most are easily fixed myself. At least I know they are fixed right! I do agree that quality control at Keystone is lacking, especially if your Mountaineer came out of the new plant that just opened this year like mine did.
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Old 08-06-2010, 03:43 AM   #4
camper4
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The quality they build into these rigs is lacking and I see very little efforts to prevent issues from happening. They are of the mind set that they will fix the problems after they happen.
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Old 08-06-2010, 03:54 AM   #5
richfaa
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The RV industry is not known for high quality control any brand any plant and we have been to and toured most of them. It appears that the Chineses are entering the US RV market. If so the Rv industry will change or die.

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Old 08-06-2010, 04:01 AM   #6
madeforeachother
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I can well agree with this post and was going to write something about the quality months ago but thought I would fall on deaf ears. We picked up our 2010 3605sa last Christmas Eve and it being our 3rd Montana has been a big disappointment. There has been so many problems with this trailer that it has been in the shop at least 8 times since we bought it and still waiting for parts to go in again. I finally contacted Keystone and their response was " WE'RE FIXING EVERYTHING, AREN'T WE"? Our confidence level to take this trailer on a trip is zero because everytime we roll it out the driveway something breaks. It's true that Keystone is repairing everything but we have to pay the expense of bringing it to the dealer that is 65 miles away. On top of this we think we were lied to by the dealership regarding the newness of the rig. It was issued a VIN on 3/21/2010 and according to Keystone picked up by our dealer on 4/16/2010 from the factory. It didn't arrive on their lots until 11/20/2010. So, We're still waiting for an explaination as to where it's been for almost 7-months! Nobody's talking and we feel we are stuck with a lemon. At this time we're contemplating on either selling it or trade it in on a newer one and order it this time as we did on our two previous rigs and have a handle on time frames. It's said, Let the buyer beware and in this case it rings true to us. Three times was supposed to be a charm but it's a bummer man!
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Old 08-06-2010, 05:02 AM   #7
TAKPAK
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Madeforeachother, you might want to check your dates? All of them refer to 2010, and we haven't even reached 11/2010 yet! Ah, but I'm still getting used to writing 2000 to begin with. You are right about quality control. I think it has a lot to do with the economy. I see it everywhere. People have been laid off. The ones who check things over are gone. Even in restaurants, it seems every one we go into now, most of the staff are gone/laid off, and only one or two people are trying to wait on everyone, so quality (service) goes down. I will have to say that our 2007 3400 has been very good. It was a "show" model, so maybe things got taken care of for the show. Other than a shower leak, pretty much everything else has been "self inflicted" by us. Hopefully, the future will bring back the jobs and the quality control. You can get a decent fifth wheel built, with few, if any problems, but they are custom built, and will cost you well over $100,000.00!
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Old 08-06-2010, 05:09 AM   #8
timandsusan
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Sounds like it came from some dealer who went out of business. The real story will never be known. Our dealer is toes up so we will have to work with another dealer who picked up the Montana line. After 4 years we are out of the "new broken stuff" era. I have registered our company for ISO quality standards and if management is not behind the drive to improve the quality--you will only get lip service. My management tried to dodge the issue until they found that they could not even bid on contracts unless you were ISO registered with annual reviews. I still never assumed they believed the ISO process could improve your products.
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Old 08-06-2010, 08:17 AM   #9
SlickWillie
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I sure hate to see the Chinese build RVs. They'll probably lose the roof while being pulled down the road, if they're anything like the tires they produce.

I don't think the economy has anything to do with RV lack of quality. It is low bids and haste makes waste. One thing for sure, Keystone is not alone. Our neighbors bought a high dollar Mobile Suite, and I think the service guy must be just living with them now. They also pull out occasionally and take it over to the dealer in Corpus Christi.

Reminds me of the mobile home industry before the feds put regulations on them.(although they ain't a whole lot better now) JMHO
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Old 08-06-2010, 10:11 AM   #10
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if it is any consulation I have two close friend who have bought two brand name products (Keystone and Heartland) and are having the same problems. Cupboards not fittings, staples left off trim, just silly things and yes they have been back three or fout times to have them fixed. In one case the toilet paper roller and the towel rack weere stuffed in ome of the drawers. In our case, they had it in the shop getting fixed or waiting for part more then we did. It took five months, but they did get it done but you say why did they not do it right the first time. So just be patient and don't sweart the small stuff.
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Old 08-06-2010, 11:36 AM   #11
madeforeachother
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OOPS,sorry about the dates! The correct year is 2009 for all the 2010's I wrote. I guess I was so worked up about this topic that I forgot what year it is.
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Old 08-06-2010, 12:20 PM   #12
rames14
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I know we would all like to have a unit with zero defects. For those of you with a manufacturing background and familiar with TS16949 (not ISO9000), you will recognize the cost to get there is high. Now, instead of millions of units, spread that same cost across a few hundred. I've heard how we negotiate prices - we look for the best price and then hope for the best. The difference between TS (automotive standard) and ISO is targets and objective evidence. In ISO, if you have a system for each clause in the standard, you will pass as long as you are following your procedures. They don't have to be effective, just followed. Auto started with QS9000 - ISO with GM, Ford and Chrysler specific language. The auto industries did not see the improvement they thought. Over time they switched to the International TS16949 spec. This was similar to ISO, but for every clause that had "shall" in it, you were required to have metrics, targets and results. Wherever you did not hit your targets, you had to have corrective action. However, the overhead costs for internal auditors, quality techs, gates, jigs, fixtures, CNC equipment, etc. is very high. The way we dealt with it on our past two Montanas is to buy from a dealer with great service departments and then to provide an advance copy of my pdi checklist. We have had very good results following this process. These units are closer to a stick built house than an automobile. Everything is built as light as possible - not as robust as possible. I'm not trying to justify the problems you've had. I just know the situation. I can see exactly how the problems mentioned above can happen. The step not fastened? Probably put in place at the end of a shift and the next shift didn't get a good handoff. Bad valve? I once helped my brother with a faulty electrical switch. Still didn't work after replacing the switch. Several hours later - found the new switch was bad. How much does a new switch cost today? $.39. Why - because most of us buy by price. There are hundreds of the .39 switches there and a handful of $2 switches. I believe we are partly to blame. Just my humble opinion.
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Old 08-06-2010, 02:12 PM   #13
Clemson1881
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I agree with you Ron. Americans are victims of their own greed. We all want to make good money, but be able to purchase cheaper goods. Now we have not only driven quality way down by this way of thinking, but most of our manufacturing jobs have been driven overseas thanks to this mindset. And of course thanks largely to Wal-Mart in my opinion. They and those who have followed them in order to try and survive have really been driving the standard of living down in our country. It's the high cost of low prices.
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Old 08-06-2010, 07:45 PM   #14
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Warranty issues on our 09 3400RL ran a invoice of $5000 plus on the first visit back to the Dealer. If the manufacture would have taken time to install correctly at the factory their profits would have been higher or the consumers would get greater discounts! Very interesting how the cycle continues.
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Old 08-06-2010, 07:54 PM   #15
garyka
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The people who assemble these are on piece work,quantity not quality
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Old 08-07-2010, 01:58 AM   #16
CamillaMichael
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Chinese RV? Do not want to even think about what kind of quality control (or lack of) we would have to deal with. Relative to our Montana, it seems at times quality control was lacking, but at other times I see all of the things that were done well. Guess I would like to see everything done well.
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Old 08-07-2010, 03:35 AM   #17
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The Chinese have already taken over a lot items in our Montana's
For instance......The motor for the landing gear; various light fixtures; faucets; ceiling fans; TV's; Surround sound; door handles; kitchen cabinet hardware; the lists go on....Oh yes & the famous tires & rims that come on them!!

I'm sure some of you out there can add more items to the lists.

Roy
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Old 08-07-2010, 05:46 AM   #18
camper4
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For my money it all starts at the top. Product engineering, lay outs, making vendors take back faulty parts, some common sense things we all want, well equipped factories, well trained employees, etc. It is a totally thing, not pieces.
The people assembling RV's want to do a good job but some of the junk and lack of planning they put up with, make it hard for them. They do with what they have.
Today many cars roll off the line to the dealers and we take them without many if any problems. They are hi tech items and go a long way!
Anyway, I could go on and on as this bothers me but I'll stop.
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Old 08-07-2010, 05:51 AM   #19
8e3k0
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Yes, very little of the components in any RV are manufactured in the U.S. I have noticed that some of the bigger stores are displaying signs that read: "we are making every effort to purchase North American products to attain quality and support the American economy".
Maybe this will slowly catch up with the RV world without driving up prices to drastic.
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Old 08-07-2010, 01:29 PM   #20
blarkman
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Why are we complaining??? WE wanted cheap price, we got cheap prices and inferior quality. WE want our cake and eat it too.
If you have the money then you can buy the best, maybe. Our RV's are cheaply made with some quality materials. When you hire people to do piecework you must have some power over them to see that the job is done up to the standard that the company expects on their product. This is why when you purchase a new rig you find swadust and loose nuts,bolts and bits of wire laying around. It is not the dealers job to prep the vehicle before it leaves the lot. The manufacturer should have taken care of that before it left the building
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