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Old 10-20-2019, 10:26 AM   #1
PNW Fireguy
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New Court Ruling Effecting RV Industry

Just thought I would start the week out with what I think will be a thought provoking post. Just ran across this earlier:


https://www.rvtravel.com/illinois-le...-game-changer/
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Old 10-20-2019, 10:53 AM   #2
BiggarView
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The road (no pun intended) to improved quality will take many baby steps. But raising customer awareness and getting them to not accept inferior build quality as an expected thing will take time. Add in, the economy has good times and bad and quality varies with the availability of craftsmen to do the work, wages paid and market demand. Everybody is trying to make ends meet. It evolves constantly and there is no set standard for that condition. In the end it will always be Caveat Emptor and how resourceful prospective buyers are after the purchase.
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Old 10-20-2019, 12:37 PM   #3
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I’ve forwarded this to a good friend that is a State Representative.
We have had several discussion regarding what can be done for consumers here in Missouri.
Do I think government intervention is needed?
Does the RV industry need the wake up, yes!
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Old 10-20-2019, 01:07 PM   #4
richfaa
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Stricter rules and regulation regarding the RV industry are needed along with that will come increased cost to the manufacturer and to the consumer but it is well worth it because that is what we want
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Old 10-20-2019, 01:25 PM   #5
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Making them do it right and having to pay more would be a good trade off for the customer having to pay to make it right later and all their stress and time. That assumes of course that it cam be made right later.
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Old 10-20-2019, 01:26 PM   #6
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Rich I agree with your sentiments. I don't think I would mind paying a bit more to get what I expect from a new unit. I am also one of those that will probably be ok with a higher price point to meet what I now know I want. However I am not ok with the premise that you need to spend more if you want the unit to be built better or more accurately without defects. Regardless of the price point the systems should all work properly and the construction should be sound. As the economy continues to slow down I think the industry will once again shift if for no other reason than laying off the questionable or warm body labor force manufacturers were forced to hire to meed demand.
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Old 10-21-2019, 10:45 AM   #7
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I agree that quality across the industry needs to be better but that will always be an open issue. Quality can be minor to major but if the dealer is not capable of fixing a unit and it has to go back to the manufacturer it should be refunded or replaced, to me that's past lemon law. If your car dealer said we have to send it back to be fixed????
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Old 10-21-2019, 11:10 AM   #8
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Effective quality control cost the manufacturer a great deal of $$ and those $$ are passed on to the consumer . I personally am all for that but the average Rv buyer is not.
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Old 10-21-2019, 11:27 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richfaa View Post
Effective quality control cost the manufacturer a great deal of $$ and those $$ are passed on to the consumer . I personally am all for that but the average Rv buyer is not.
No sale equals loss revenue. As the economy slows down this sentiment based upon higher labor costs will fade as well. It will most likely be offset by the reduction in under or unqualified labor force employed in a down economy. The remaining workforce will likely be the better skilled individuals vs the warm bodies needed to meet production quotas.
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Old 10-21-2019, 11:36 AM   #10
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I'm sure there will continue to be different models offered at different price points in order to accommodate a broad economic marketplace. Regardless of the price point that a consumer can afford, I agree that all should be able to expect a base line of quality and function. Plumbing, electrical, water-tight construction, safe/functional suspension, etc, should always perform correctly. These can be fairly well controlled in the manufacture process. Quality of materials and nature of cosmetic finishes will certainly vary with price point. But we should all be able to expect that trim doesn't just fall off the wall or entire walls fall of the back of a rig (I've seen that). Most of what this entails isn't an issue of materials, but of time spent to do a better job with the same materials. Sure, you could get better materials for every part of the rig but what would that cost?

Appliances, stereo systems, leveling systems, etc, are harder to control since they are built by other manufacturers.

Our trailers get compared to cars, but that's only because they have wheels for the road. We are basically buying houses and although there are some similarities to the automotive industry, this issue is much more complex. The government demanding a higher quality product will be difficult to manage and there will always be something that breaks.

I'm all for having the industry toe the line to a higher standard but agree that the end result will be higher build costs. Although it will be interesting to see what a slower economy and a competitive marketplace will do to control that as well.
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Old 10-21-2019, 11:50 AM   #11
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I agree with the need for improvement. It is vast and repairs are seldom timely. I do have a bit of an issue with the ruling. Not giving a manufacturer the opportunity to correct an issue is a pretty tall order. That demands perfection on the front end. Only one person achieved that goal 100% of the time and they hung him on a cross.
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Old 10-21-2019, 12:07 PM   #12
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I'd be more than happy to pay more up front if it meant the better quality parts & installation of equipment/manufacturing... They source everything it seems out of China from the cheapest price point. As an example the BAL gear drives for the slides are junk, cheap low grade white metal gears that are continuously stripping. So an RV owner now waits a month or so for an appointment after one breaks (if lucky) to get it in to the RV dealer then another week or two for the part to come in & repairs to be done. When the season is 4 months at best and you are already losing a month or more of usage ??? Ya I'd pay more for good quality parts and not lose the usage time.. Now this is one example, add to the gearbox, cheap plastic Relief Valves, Cheap Breakers that continuously trip until replaced, trim falling off inside & out, wall bracket bolts shearing off............. etc ... All down time to fix........ It is the down time that people are angry at, not so much the actual cost of fixing most of these parts that break. I've done most of the repairs myself as our dealer is so backlogged it is crazy...... Would rather of paid a little more and not had to do anything but use it.
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Old 10-21-2019, 03:00 PM   #13
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I agree with all written here and would pay more for a better built rig. It seams that manufacturers source from mostly the same suppliers and I untill the manufacturers MAKE the suppliers improve their products not much will change. QC at the factory we have all seen the photos of units with red tape on them still moving on down the line. QC tags a unit for a bad or no weld on a wall stud unless it is fixed when tagged it will never be fixed or until it failed.

In a past life I was a plant manager of a small manufacturing operation. As the plant manager I could not overrule the QC manager. The offending unit was pulled out of production and brought up to standards.

This product was not on the road and out in public. It was a grinder for wast water plants. If it failed not a big problem and we had lots of replacement that could be shipped in a day. But the owners of this company demanded that the equipment be built correctly every time.
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Old 10-21-2019, 04:02 PM   #14
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We were there when the economy crashed in 07/08 the unemployment rate shot up to over 26% the area was a ghost town. There will be drastic reduction in force by seniority. BTW that last slowdown changed nothing the Rv industry knows how this works which is why are building RV's like crazy they can see the slowdown coming.


If keystone has any kind of a organized QC program we have not been able to find it in the 13 years we have been touring the plants at the fall rally.


The lowest bidder usually if not always gets the contract and just about everything we have is made inChina or a Foreign country
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Old 10-25-2019, 07:36 PM   #15
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If a company and employees cant "turn on a dime" they have no business in the industry. It Is MUCH cheaper to spend time doing it right, than to have to do it over again.. Every phase of manufacturing needs a quality control person to sign off at the various phases. Final inspection would require a water booth test ti insure leak free, alignment, etc.. i have worked in various industries.. Its NOT THAT HARD TO DO IT RIGHT.. DONT GIVE ME COSTS, IT COSTS MORE FOR ALL FOR DO OVERS..
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Old 10-25-2019, 07:40 PM   #16
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But the RV MFRs don't "DO IT OVER", they ship them off to Dealers who may or may not do the Do Overs, or just sell them to customers and hope the customers don't come back until after the warranty is up.
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Old 10-27-2019, 02:31 PM   #17
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Safety first

I would think the NTSB would mandate that the suspension, brakes and tires would at least meet safety standards and NOT cheap substandard tires( China bombs ). As all my vehicles, those come first as they are what keeps me safe on the road. The rest is up to the manufacture. If they build poorly constructed rigs, then the word will soon get out and they will suffer drop in sales. I expect to get what I payed for and not thrown together crap.
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Old 10-27-2019, 03:04 PM   #18
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Great discussion! I applaud the Illinois court ruling. But I think an even more effective motivation for manufactures to make good products is for consumers to NOT buy the bad products. IS THERE A RATING SYSTEM, kinda like Amazon's rating system? Is there a way to rate the products we buy so that prospective buyers can know the opinions and experiences of previous buyers? Does anyone have a link?
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Old 10-31-2019, 02:15 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by kenb View Post
Great discussion! I applaud the Illinois court ruling. But I think an even more effective motivation for manufactures to make good products is for consumers to NOT buy the bad products. IS THERE A RATING SYSTEM, kinda like Amazon's rating system? Is there a way to rate the products we buy so that prospective buyers can know the opinions and experiences of previous buyers? Does anyone have a link?
It wasn't lemon laws that brought quality to Detroit, it was Japanese competition. The relatively small number of RV units built each year has forced the consolidation in RV manufacturing which has limited the number of producers reducing competition. If and when we get a foreign competitor of size to challenge the status quo, then we will see change. The law of supply and demand will always prevail. As long as we consumers put up with poor quality nothing will change.
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Old 10-31-2019, 03:29 PM   #20
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it is a catch 22, however. We all keep buying poorer quality because that's really all that's available. You'd have to get everyone to refuse to buy another new rig for a year or two to force quality change. In our current environment all we can do is do our best to buy from the OEM that provides the best quality.

Still, we do have higher end manufacturers that, in theory, provide a better product such as DRV Suites and perhaps Redwood. Are they better? I don't know, but they cost a lot more. So additional price is also a hinderence in the quality marketplace as long as there are viable, lower cost, though lesser quality options.
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