Check valve on winterizing port and related topics

[mtlakejim]

To follow up on my previous thread on water system check valves. I removed the internals of the cheap plastic check valve on the winterizing port and now the system works great. The onboard pump will now pull antifreeze thru the system at a very quick rate. Problem solved! There is ZERO need for that check valve on the port as the winterizing valve securely closes off the line. Only thing I can think of is it must be some sort of BS government requirement (as if we didn't already have enough of those!).

There is no check valve on the black water tank flush line so that isn't the issue with low flow on the line I was having. It may well still be an issue with a anti siphon valve if there is one on my unit. I plan to investigate that further. I am considering adding a thru panel valve on the line similar to the winterizing valve and eliminating the anti siphon valve. Other than government over regulation I can't think of a good reason for the anti siphon but your welcome to give me one. I am also thinking about pulling out my PVC jumper line (see earlier threads) and just using a clear hose so I can see the water and just threading that into the port with a swivel hose connection. That way I have the option to either use the onboard pump or external water source.

[RoadRunnerTR21]

Got any pics of your work?

[mtlakejim]

Pictures

[mtlakejim]

Unscrew the pipe connection on the back of the winterizing port. Using needle nose pliers grab the 3 prong white plastic check valve in the middle of the winterizing port and pull hard. The check valve internals will break apart and you can push the backside out of the rear of the port. Then just screw the connection back on and your good to go.


FYI: winterizing system piping is color coded red. Water system is blue and Black Tank Flush system is white.

[BuilderBob]

To find the the air gap valve just fallow the white line and see wear it goes it ether under the sink or in the wall take it out before it leaks on you and you have a flood in your fiver
like others have had.

Bob & Carol
Washington St
2017 352RL 2008 Dodge 3500 DRW CC 4x4 LB 6.74L

[mtlakejim]

Originally Posted by BuilderBob

To find the the air gap valve just fallow the white line and see wear it goes it ether under the sink or in the wall take it out before it leaks on you and you have a flood in your fiver
like others have had.

Bob & Carol
Washington St
2017 352RL 2008 Dodge 3500 DRW CC 4x4 LB 6.74L

Yep that is the next project. The line takes off under the trailer in the underbelly where I cant see from the front panel so it's going to take some more investigation.....

At least it is color coded white.....

[BuilderBob]

Mine was under the sink in the bathroom but your bathroom is in a different place the 381TH it mite be in a wall some wear just cut it off and put a fitting in it's place that's what I did and have had no problems at all.

[BB_TX]

So far my winterizing port check valve has not been a problem. But I will know what to do if it does become one. I can only guess someone thought the line should remain full of antifreeze rather than letting some drain back out. But as long as all the water has been pushed out it would not matter at all.

[beeje]

IMHO that winterizing port is a waste of time. I simply put 3 gallons of rv anti freeze in the fresh tank ( I have a gravity fill port ) and pump it through all fixtures. Done in 10 minutes. Flush everything out in the spring real good, sanitizing with bleach and I am good to go for the season.

[mtlakejim]

Originally Posted by beeje

IMHO that winterizing port is a waste of time. I simply put 3 gallons of rv anti freeze in the fresh tank ( I have a gravity fill port ) and pump it through all fixtures. Done in 10 minutes. Flush everything out in the spring real good, sanitizing with bleach and I am good to go for the season.

Our model does not have a gravity feed port so your method gets a lot more complicated. I can appreciate the argument that the one line that does not get protected by our method is the line between the tank and the 12volt pump but I think that line drains back to the tank and we always drain the tank completely and even leave it open going down the road for a while just to make sure on the last trip of the season.

Honestly, now that the check valve is removed the winterizing port is VERY easy to use! And it will be a lot easier to get the unit ready for our first outing that is coming up mid February.

[WeBeFulltime]

Originally Posted by mtlakejim

Our model does not have a gravity feed port so your method gets a lot more complicated. I can appreciate the argument that the one line that does not get protected by our method is the line between the tank and the 12volt pump but I think that line drains back to the tank and we always drain the tank completely and even leave it open going down the road for a while just to make sure on the last trip of the season.

Honestly, now that the check valve is removed the winterizing port is VERY easy to use! And it will be a lot easier to get the unit ready for our first outing that is coming up mid February.

You should be able to add to your fresh tank by using the vent. That's how I add clorox to sanitize the tank on ours. The vent cover will slip right off exposing the vent line and you can use a funnel with a short hose and pour it right in.

[mtlakejim]

Originally Posted by WeBeFulltime

You should be able to add to your fresh tank by using the vent. That's how I add clorox to sanitize the tank on ours. The vent cover will slip right off exposing the vent line and you can use a funnel with a short hose and pour it right in.

It might be possible BUT the vent is under the slide. Using the winterizing port is so much easier....

But thanks for the advice anyway.

[beeje]

Never thought of the issue of sanitizing the system without a gravity fill port. That brings up some serious issues for me. In the old days (LOL) before the dumb idea of power filling the fresh tank (from the bottom, by the way) you could simply add some bleach to the tank and pump it through sanitizing the system. Now I would suppose the only way to do it would be to suck a bleach/water mixture through the winterizing port.

You would also have to direct that mixture to the fresh tank to sanitize the line from the tank to the pump. Negating, not wanting anti freeze in the fresh tank.

I can tell you all for FACT that the line that is between the tank and the pump is NOT self draining. It is NOT pex like the other lines. It is a white braided, very flexible line that sags in between everything in rests on. I am guessing 10-15 low spots in this line from tank to pump.

I have removed the coroplast covering for my current 3455sa and 2 other previously owned keystone trailers, and they were all the same.

That line WILL have water sitting in the low spots 100% of the time. So if you do not send anti freeze/ of at least blowout that line, it will freeze. However I think that is why it a different material, to expand when frozen?

I challenge everyone to put a few inches of water in a white bucket and just sit in outside for a month of 2. It will grow green/pink algae. This same thing IS happening to the lines of your camper that sits for a while.

[mtlakejim]

I can easily see where you might have a point about the contamination in the fresh water tank. Especially if you don't use good chlorinated city water in it. I could see simply pouring some bleach in a water hose and hooking that to the trailer and a supply then "shooting" the bleach into the tank (old oilfield chemical trick). Might have to do it a couple times but it would be easier than messing with the vent line on rigs that have that line under a slide I would think.


I can also see where the line between the tank and pump might be an issue for freezing. I wonder if that line could be replaced with SST braided, Teflon interior line? Or simply pull the line off the pump and shoot some air thru it to winterize? Does the line have a check valve at the tank?

[beeje]

Here is that line entering the tank (at the bottom). No valve of any kind. So when these tanks are pressure filled, they are filled from the bottom up.

I have done the, pour the bleach in the hose thing before and follow with water. Worked fine.

[beeje]

Cant figure out why my pics are posting sideways. Turn your head to the right LOL. The other line is the tank drain line.

[JABURKHOLDER]

Originally Posted by beeje

IMHO that winterizing port is a waste of time. I simply put 3 gallons of rv anti freeze in the fresh tank ( I have a gravity fill port ) and pump it through all fixtures. Done in 10 minutes. Flush everything out in the spring real good, sanitizing with bleach and I am good to go for the season.

Using the winterizing port I use a little less than one gallon of antifreeze. You don’t need three gallons to winterize your water lines.

[mtlakejim]

Thanks for the pic. Doesn't look like a check valve on that line so another issue you might have is residual water freezing in the fitting and first part of the hose....But considering that the hose is open ended freezing shouldn't be as big of a problem since the pressure of the ice freezing has someplace to go. I'm just going to go with pulling the hose off of the pump and blowing air thru it while I leave the low point drain on the tank open. Hopefully most of the water will go out the low point. Otherwise it would be cut an access panel under that connection and remove the line and blow it out.


Working in the oilfield (especially this winter), I have seen my share of freezing issues. We actually have special ball valves on our water tanks that have drilled balls such that the water freezing inside the ball has a way to relief to the tanks (the ball is drilled on one side not both or it would not work).

[BuilderBob]

I just put some bleach in the hose before I hook to the rig works great!

Bob & Carol
Washington St
2017 352 RL 2008 Dodge 3500 DRW CC LB 4x4 6.7L

[twindman]

A question for anyone.... What are all the other lines and wires, etc going into the tank? I can see water in and water out, but what else?