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Old 10-22-2017, 11:13 AM   #41
mtlakejim
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So the High Country is not as good of a quality camper as the Montana?
 
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Old 10-22-2017, 11:31 AM   #42
Beau2010
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My Sailun G637 are designated as LT tires but also say on the sidewall "for trailer service only". They are not truck tires. LT or light truck tires are not made to tolerate scuffing or being slid sideways as happens with a multi-axle trailer when it is turned sharply. If you watch a fifth-wheel being turned pretty sharply, one or both tires will slide sideways during the turn. Truck tires will not tolerate that. Sure, truck tires rarely blow out ON A TRUCK, but they are never scuffed or slid sideways unless the truck is in a sideways skid; how often does that happen?
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Old 10-22-2017, 11:46 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by mtlakejim View Post
Do yall still consider the High Country a Montana?
I have a HC. To most is a Montana but not to me. I didn’t need to pull all that weight around so I got a HC. I know others will disagree and that’s OK.
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Old 10-22-2017, 06:03 PM   #44
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Beau2010. If you pick up any stock ST tire (power king/carlile/arket/rainer etc then pick up a sailun g637 you will be amazed at the difference. The g637s weigh nearly twice as much (around 60#)

I do agree that tires on a truck are not subject to the same stresses that trailer tires are subject to do to the scrubbing they encounter in turns. However some manufactures started putting on LT tires from the factory years ago.

I had LTs on my toy hauler for many years with no issues what so ever.

If you have a dual axle trailer with less than 12k lbs or so, you should be fine with a good LT tire such as firestone transforce
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Old 10-22-2017, 06:39 PM   #45
jfaberna
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It's not about ST. it's about G or H ,or 14 Ply rated.
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Old 10-22-2017, 06:49 PM   #46
CaptnJohn
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I have a HC. To most is a Montana but not to me. I didn’t need to pull all that weight around so I got a HC. I know others will disagree and that’s OK.
Lynwood
I bought the HC for the floor plan. Montana had one close, but not the same. All of those on the lot had a residential fridge which was a no go for me as well. Weight was an afterthought. Many 'Montana' owners and salespersons see the HC as a lesser product. It is pushed as 3/4 ton towable but with the PW most would be well over payload. I'm very happy with mine.
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Old 10-22-2017, 06:55 PM   #47
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There is always a compromise. There are Montana Legacy owners who trade up to a 24,000lb Ultra Suites. Their Residential Fridges Fail also.
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Old 10-22-2017, 07:06 PM   #48
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JFaberna, It really is about ST tires, non of them are worth a ---- except the sailun s637 which was reclassified from an LT to a ST. Even the Goodyear g614 witch is a LT tire have had many reports of blow outs.
I do agree the more plys the better, all steel is even better.
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Old 10-22-2017, 07:09 PM   #49
Carl n Susan
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People have been talking of all the reserve built into P and LT tires but no one has been able to find any documentation. Waiting to see someone, anyone provide docs from any tire manufacturer.
The LT v ST reserve capacity discussion has been running around a long time. LT tires are used on PASSENGER vehicles and consequently the testing for them is significantly more than a ST tire which does not carry passengers. Montana used to use LT tires until about 2007 when something made them move to ST. Within the ST family there are significant differences in construction between the cheap vendor tires and the better quality G614s and G637s. A tire weighing 65 lbs can be expected to be stronger than one weighing 30 lbs.

You don't need to ask a tire manufacturer about it, ask the Feds. They dictate the testing required for each type of tire. Here is a post from the past (2014) which will give you some insight on the Fed testing requirements
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelpony5555 View Post
Here is that article about how they test these tires...yes it is long but some good info. This is why I say if your trailer had Marathons on that LT tires are an improvement and will most likely be fine.....




SUMMARY OF FINDINGS & CONCLUSIONS

I found the testing requirements for both the ST and LT tires at the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) webpage.

The testing for each tire is comprised of (1) bead unseating resistance, (2) strength, (3) endurance, and (4) high speed performance.

The testing for (1) bead unseating resistance and (2) strength were identical for tires representative of moderate to heavy 5th wheels and thus no advantage is given to either tire type.

The testing for (3) endurance was found to be significantly different between the ST and LT tires.

Both the ST and LT are put through the same initial pressure, time and load profile. The total profile lasts 34 hours of continuous run time starting at 85% of rated load and ending at 100% of rated load. To further stress the tires, a load range E tire (nominal 80 psi rating) is tested at a reduced pressure of 60 psi to induce additional load on the tire during testing. (This is reasonable that testing should be conservative.)

But now the endurance testing diverges significantly.

The ST tire is tested at this pressure, time and load profile at 50 mph. After that, the ST test is over.

The LT tire is tested at this pressure, time and load profile at 75 mph. This is a 50% increase over the ST and will induce significant additional load and heating on the tire during testing. After that, the LT test is not complete. Next a “Low Inflation Pressure Performance” test is performed for the LT tire only. The tire pressure is decreased to 46 psi and the tire is immediately run for an additional 2 hours at 75 mph and 100% of rated load.

Thus, the LT tire endurance test is drastically more intense than the ST endurance test.

The testing for (4) high speed performance.

The difference in high speed performance testing between a ST and LT tire is significant. Both tires are tested through a 90 minute speed/time profile.

The ST tire is tested 88% of rated load while the LT tire is tested at 85% of rated load. Thus, the loading is 3% higher based on rated load and this slight advantage goes to the ST tire.

However, the LT tire is tested at significantly higher velocities when compared to a ST tire (99 vs. 85 mph maximum speed). This is a 16% advantage to the LT tire.

Thus, again the overall test for the LT is more rigorous than the ST test.

Conclusion:

It is reasonable to conclude that these test requirements force the tire manufacturer to construct an LT tire more substantially than an ST tire. This is also a reasonable explanation for the same size LT tire is rated at a slightly lower maximum load than a ST tire.

And now, for those of you who need to know all the details, read on!

REFERENCES

The references for my evaluation may be found at the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) webpage:
ST tire standard may be found at FMCSA Part 571, subsection 109.
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...0163348008f295
LT tire standard may be found at FMCSA Part 571, subsection 139.
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...0163348008f2a9
Part 571, subsection 139 references Part 571 subsection 119 which can be found at:
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...0163348008f29d

QUICK NOTES

Each standard for the ST and LT tires has definitions, significant constraints on labeling, etc. that I will not address. There are also tire conditioning (temperature), tire break in, etc. that are the same or similar for ST and LT that I will not address. The details are in the references.

The (3) endurance, and (4) high speed performance tests must not result in tire failure. Tire failure includes visual evidence of tread, sidewall, ply, cord, inner liner, or bead separation, chunking, broken cords, cracking, or open splices, not just a blowout.

TESTING - BEAD UNSEATING RESISTANCE

ST Tire: (reference paragraph S5.2.2)

The tire is mounted horizontally and a vertical load is applied to the tire’s outer sidewall at a rate of 50 mm (2 inches) per minute.

Increase the load until the bead unseats or a specified value is reached.

Repeat the test at least four places equally spaced around the tire circumference.

LT Tire:

Paragraph “S6.6 Tubeless tire bead unseating resistance” references the ST tire procedure noted above.

Conclusion:

The testing for bead unseating resistance is identical for a ST and LT tire.

TESTING - STRENGTH

ST Tire: (reference paragraph S5.3.2.1)

Force a 19 mm (3?4 inch) diameter cylindrical steel plunger with a hemispherical end perpendicularly into the tread rib as near to the centerline as possible, avoiding penetration into the tread groove, at the rate of 50 mm (2 inches) per minute.

Compute the breaking energy for each test point by means of a provided formula.

LT Tire: (reference paragraph S6.5.2)

Each tire shall comply with the requirements of S7.3 of 571.119, which is tires for vehicles weighing 10,000 lb or more. Per S7.3 of 571.119 for our example tire, the testing is the same as the ST tire procedure noted above.

Conclusion:

The testing for strength is identical for a ST and LT tire.

TESTING - ENDURANCE

The following is for a ST or LT tire of less than nominal cross section less than or equal to 295 mm (11.5 inches) which is typical of a 5th wheel application.

ST tire: (reference paragraph S5.4.2)

There are specifications for the contact of the tire mounted on a test axle and steel test wheel after the test that I will not address because they are similar for the ST and LT.

Inflate a load range E to 60 psi. (410 kPa)

Conduct the test at 80 kilometers per hour (km/h)(50 miles per hour) in accordance with the following schedule without pressure adjustment or other interruptions:

The loads for the following periods are the specified percentage of the maximum load rating marked on the tire sidewall:
Time and Percent of rated load
4 hours, 85%
6 hours, 90%
24 hours, 100%

LT Tire: (reference paragraph S6.3.1.2)

“Conduct the test, without interruptions, at the test speed of not less than 120 km/h…” (75 mph)

Inflate a load range E to 60 psi. (410 kPa)

This test uses the same profile as the ST tire.

Immediately following the above sequence perform a Low Inflation Pressure Performance test (reference paragraph S6.4):
This test uses the same tire/wheel as the previous sequence at a reduced pressure.

For a load range E tire the pressure is reduced to 46 psi. (320 kPa)

The same tire/wheel is run an additional 2 hours at the reduced pressure at a speed of 75 mph and 100% of rated load.

Conclusion:

The difference in endurance testing between a ST and LT tire is significant. Both tires are tested through a equivalent loading/time profile. However, the LT tire is tested at this profile at a higher speed (75 vs. 50 mph) and must still endure an additional 2 hour low pressure test without failure. Thus the overall test for the LT is far more rigorous than the ST test.

TESTING - HIGH SPEED PERFORMANCE

ST tire: (reference paragraph S5.5.4)

Load the tire to 88 percent of the tire’s maximum load rating as marked on the tire sidewall. Inflate to 72 psi (500 kPa). Run the test sequentially without interruption at:
75 mph (121 km/h) for 30 minutes
80 mph (129 km/h) for 30 minutes
85 mph (137 km/h) for 30 minutes

LT Tire: (reference paragraph S6.2.1.2.7)

Load the tire to 85 percent of the tire’s maximum load rating as marked on the tire sidewall. Inflate to 72 psi (500 kPa). Run the test sequentially without interruption at:
87 mph (140 km/h) for 30 minutes
93 mph (150 km/h) for 30 minutes
99 mph (160 km/h) for 30 minutes

Conclusion:

The difference in high speed performance testing between a ST and LT tire is significant. Both tires are tested through a speed/time profile. The ST tire is tested 88% of rated load while the LT tire is tested at 85% of rated load. Thus, the loading is 3% higher based on rated load and this slight advantage goes to the ST tire. However, the LT tire is tested at significantly higher velocities (nearly 100 mph!) when compared to a ST tire. This is a 16% advantage to the LT tire. Thus, again the overall test for the LT is more rigorous than the ST test.
MOC Source = http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57211 page 2 post #25
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Old 10-22-2017, 07:11 PM   #50
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The G614 and G637 are both all Steel and 14 Ply Rated. I've run both with confidence
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Old 10-22-2017, 07:38 PM   #51
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I agree, carl and Susan. I think they switched to ST tires because it cost manufactures less to use them instead of a quality LT tire.

As of yet I have not heard of or seen any posts on any forum of anyone with a blowout running the sailun s637
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Old 10-22-2017, 08:20 PM   #52
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Ok so can anyone give me ballpark price points for the goodyear G614 and Sailum s637?
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Old 10-22-2017, 08:35 PM   #53
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I agree, carl and Susan. I think they switched to ST tires because it cost manufactures less to use them instead of a quality LT tire.
That definitely was an influence but it seems to correspond with the advent of 7K axles for which the LTs weren't adequate (rated load-wise).
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Ok so can anyone give me ballpark price points for the goodyear G614 and Sailum s637?
Roughly $350for a GY G614 and $150 for a Sailun 637. YMMV
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Old 10-22-2017, 08:46 PM   #54
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WOW that is a big difference in price. What's up with that???
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Old 10-22-2017, 08:59 PM   #55
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WOW that is a big difference in price. What's up with that???
China dumping vs. USA union made
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Old 10-22-2017, 09:00 PM   #56
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I agree, carl and Susan. I think they switched to ST tires because it cost manufactures less to use them instead of a quality LT tire.

As of yet I have not heard of or seen any posts on any forum of anyone with a blowout running the sailun s637
The price of a Sailun is around $170. I can find lots of name brand LT tires for less. No LT has near the weight capacity of a like size Sailun.
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Old 10-22-2017, 09:05 PM   #57
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China dumping vs. USA union made
But union made in the US doesn't have the same quality of the Sailun even at twice the price. I'm willing to pay a little more for US made for like or better quality but there are none. When it comes to safety cost consideration goes out the window. Why pay more for less?
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Old 10-23-2017, 06:19 AM   #58
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I would suggest to everyone that you get your unit weighed (loaded) and see exactly how much weight is really resting on the two axles.

There are many different Montana floor plans and weights.

Some may get by fine with LT tires but most will not.

If you have, say 11k to 12k resting on your 2 axles a good quality LT tire may do. However for the same $ you can get the sailun s637s. Its a no brainer as long as you have wheel rated for 110psi
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Old 10-23-2017, 06:40 AM   #59
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I agree with the suggestion to weigh your RV when loaded. We did this at the National Rally a few years ago. We found out that our load was balanced with 6K lbs on each axle, but the driver side was much heavier than the passenger side. We were advised to pick our tire choice and pressure based on the heavier side requirements.

Tires really require a lot of monitoring. Even with G rated tires I still have to worry. I found that the rear axle tires were wearing out on the inside to the point of needing to be replaced. Front axle tires are only about 1/3 of their life. With equal weight, you'd thing that there wouldn't be that much difference.
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Old 10-23-2017, 08:29 AM   #60
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So the High Country is not as good of a quality camper as the Montana?
The line "Mountainer" used to be the line under Montana. They moved it up, changed the name to "High County" by Montana.

You can do a comparison, make your own decision.

In my mind, a High Country is NOT a Montana, just a re-named Mountainer.

The Legacy package used to be standard equipment on a Montana, now it is a $7K option package. It is all marketing and how to get more of your money into their pocket.
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