Duramax And ULSD

[jackel1959]

There is an article in the "RV Clinic & Performance" section of the DEC 2006 issue of Trailer Life Magazine. It talks a little bit about the whys and wherefores of ULSD. There is also a link to the Clean Diesel Fuel Alliance Information Center website: http://www.clean-diesel.org/ There is some good information in both the article and on the website although neither of them address the Duramax specifically. On the website it does state that additives are put in the new ULSD for lubricity and as corrosion inhibitors. Here is the specific question from the FAQ section.

Q. Will I need to put an additive in my fuel tank to replace the lubricity that was provided by the higher sulfur content?

A. Like Low Sulfur Diesel fuel, ULSD fuel requires good lubricity and corrosion inhibitors to prevent unacceptable engine wear. As necessary, additives to increase lubricity and to inhibit corrosion will be added to ULSD fuel prior to its retail sale. With these additives, ULSD fuel is expected to perform as well as Low Sulfur Diesel fuel.

I have not yet to to my Ford Diesel Technician, but from everything I have read on forums and in print, I am not concerned with using the ULSD in my 2002 7.3L.

Jack

[Steve and Brenda]

quote:Originally posted by jackel1959
... but from everything I have read on forums and in print, I am not concerned with using the ULSD in my 2002 7.3L.

DITTO!!!

[Glenn and Lorraine]

quote:Originally posted by jackel1959

I am not concerned with using the ULSD in my 2002 7.3L.

TOTALLY AGREE and that goes for my 05 Duramax and in my opinion any other diesel on the road today.


Dave (Montana Sky), I guess you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree but in this case I am sure you will eventually have to give in. It may takes years for that to happen but it will happen.

AND after this reply is posted I will not be adding any further comments to this thread. ENUFF SAID.

[Illini Trekker]

Montana Sky I also look at other web sites to gather information. Some of the members on thoughts webs sites may not be "experts" but they do run everyday mom & pop businesses. Am sure they ask the same question to the experts on a day in and day out part of there business.

Are the jobbers adding additives prior to its retail sale, I don’t know for sure?

At a $1.30 a tank I’ll make sure my $42,000 Investment is protected with additives. I have been using Stanadyne for the past 15,000 miles!

[Thunderman]

Illini Trekker,
WELL SAID!

I think each of us must do what we feel is best and be done with it.

Weldon

[Cat320]

quote:Originally posted by Clyde n Deb



Read this



http://www.stanadyne.com/new/ppt/showfile.asp?id=1687

The key to this article is the title: "Marketing Bulletin." These guys are in the business of selling this stuff, that's the purpose of the bulletin. Notice it says GM "approves" not GM "recommends."

A friend called a Ford dealer today, he has a 7.3 PSD. Ford said the same thing the GM guys said...the new fuel will be fine without any extra lubrication. The fuel manufacturer will add something to replace the lubrication the system now gets from sulfur.

I think I'm convinced.

[indy roadrunner]

I have been hesitant to chime in on this but I work in the Fleet Maintenance department of a very large trucking company (coast to coast LTL operation) we even have airplanes hint hint and we have millions invested in trucks that burn nothing but diesel. I can tell you are biggest concern is not 2006 and older engines burning the new ULSD as our fuel experts have tested to determine that the additives are being added. We use several vendors as fuel suppliers and they are in danger of loosing our business if they don't. Our biggest concern is the new 2007 engines with the "afterburners" - just not enough data on the longivity of this add on to the exhaust system. We were just over at the International Harvester Plant and they are trying to put on a good show that theirs will hold up but the extra maintenance cost is still there - no getting around it. If you have a 2006 or older engine, I would not worry that much about it and if it makes you feel better go ahead and put some additive to boost the cetane and lubricity - won't hurt the engine so is the cost justifiable - you make the call - according to my diesel experts at my company, I am going to save my money but I will not put down somebody who chooses otherwise. Power to you. Right now our Volvo's with the Cummins ISX engine is testing out just fine with the ULSD.

[ols1932]

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the refiners or jobbers to add the needed additives. I think that's just wishful thinking. It's been my experience that the addition of something like Lucas Fuel Treatment has been great for my injectors and the lubricity of the entire fuel system. I took the advice of a completely disinterested party, one who is in the business of running high performance diesel engines out of Pittsburgh, PA, when it comes to keeping my diesel in top running condition.

Orv

[Clyde n Deb]

GM technical service bulletin (TSB) # 03-06-04-017B dated 9-7-05 also mentions Stanadyne by name as a recommended additive if you are inclined to go that route. They pretty much state that it is up to the fuel peole to be adding the appropriate ingredients to the fuel to make it acceptable to our engines. If you don't want to buy that story, then additives are fine as long as they do not contain alcohol. No Cuervo in the diesel. I have been buying Stanadyne at CW for $4.?? something a bottle, the new formula for ULSD.

[Cat320]

Phill...you should have jumped in here sooner...you've got first hand knowledge. If your guys are testing the ULSD, and "the additives are being added" sounds like we are good to go.

[Mudchief]

Thanks Phill that was some good information.

[indy roadrunner]

Well here is my take and the reason I didn't have a whole lot to say. People have opinions and they are entitled to that (as long as they agree with mine). But the fact remains that we all make decisions based on what we feel is the best for "me" - number one and often that is the result of information that we have received that "matches" our beliefs. But here is what I deal with every day. We put over 11,200 road drivers on the road every day who drives an average of 500 miles and some of their tractors are "slip seat" which means they get an additional 400 - 450 miles a day. We also put over 10,420 city drivers on the streets every day. Our Trucks are brought in every 36,000 miles for Preventive Maintenance and inspection. That averages about every 40 to 50 working days. Now with all that as a back-ground - We have been using ULSD for 3 months. It is delivered in bulk to us by some name brands you would recognize all over the country. We also have contracts with some very popular "truck stops" names. Whenever fuel is delivered a sample is taken and sent to the home office for testing. For the last three months the ULSD has tested as having the additives required to increase lubricity, boost Cetane and corrision inhibitors. We have been running test supported by Cummins Engineers (most of our tractors have Cummins ISX) and so far no bad effects on injectors, pumps, fuel systems or power per down loaded computer specs. At our divisonal fleet maintenance meeting last month we had a Q & A with the research and development department from the home office. According to my minutes supplied to me here are a couple of questions.
Q. How will ULSD fuel affect the power and fuel economy of our existing fleet.
A. So far under existing operating conditions there have been no noticeable impact on the over power using USLD fuel. As far as fuel economy goes that is a tough question per unit because depending on the drivers behavior, ie shifting gears, type of load, driving conditions, it would be hard to nail down specific MPG per unit.

Q. Will ULSD fuel affect the performance - I can hear the drivers complaining already - wanting more power.
A. Engine and vehicle manufacturers expect that ULSD fuel to be fully compatible with the existing fleet, including 2006 and earlier models. What you may see initially is some vehicles may be affected in the fuel system components by loosen deposits in the fuel tanks as USLD is a cleaner fuel. This may cause some seals to loosen or some premautre fuel filter plugging during the change-over but this will eventually clean itself out.

Guys - I know this may go against your beliefs but we have several thousand pieces of equipment and our two biggest maintenance cost is tires and fuel. We do not take either subject lightly and a lot of investigation, test, and money goes into these two items. Just remember if you fuel at a Flying J or Pilot, you may be putting in the same fuel we put in our Fleet of trucks without having to add the "additives".

[sreigle]

I don't have the GM but wanted to say I also see zero change in performance. I do see a drop in mileage, however. And being of the squeaky wallet persuasion that does irritate me. I'm seeing a 1.5 to 2.0 mpg drop over several tanks and driving the same highway route (240 mile round trip) several times.

[richfaa]

I think Indyroadrunner, who can be considered somewhat of a expert in his field and it is his job to have knowledge of these things has given a real good overview of the issue. I am not a expert in anything and have little knowledge on these issues execpt from folks who's job it is to know. All we notice in the diesels we drive is a slight drop in MPG and they smell better. As a follow up none of our local schools systems, including ours, are using additives now..At first they did but no longer. I am now confident that the additives are there..Of course I drive a gas motor so I can be way more confident than the diesel driver.

[c5racer]

I run Power Service on the recommendation of the dealer service manager to keep my injectors clean. Not all diesel fuel is fresh and clean.

[aljolleyjr]

I ran one tank of ULSD and my mileage dropped 2 mpg. I called my local Chevy dealer and asked about running Stanadyne fuel additive and he said not to that they just got a bulletin on it. I refueled and put back in LSD. There is only one station in my town that has the LSD but I think most major truck stops have either. Interesting topic, I'll keep monitoring.

[Montana Sky]

Al,
I noticed a drop of 3 mpg when I switched over to ULSD. I am running GM Diesel Fuel Conditioner, got my 3 mpg back. You might want to look into that. Just an FYI...

[aljolleyjr]

MONTANA SKY,
Thanks, I will do that. I will go to the Chevy dealer and inquire about it. He told me on the phone the other day not to use anything that they had just got a bulletin on that. I'll try and get a copy. I might even talk to another dealer. Anyhow, I think the all the major truck stops have both ULSD and LSD so a person can choose either. Thanks again, Al.

[indy roadrunner]

You know in my line of business we show a drop in MPG averaging 1 to 2 gal when they switch over to the winter blend. Could that be factored into why some of your are seeing a drop your MPG?

[mobilrvn]

Just an observation regarding ULSD and LSD availability. Regardless of what sticker is on the pump, do we know what is in the tank? My understanding that in the switchover from LSD to ULSD besides the pump sticker that there was a certain time period as the ULSD ran through the pipelines that it was contaminated with LSD and was sold as LSD. Once the pipeline was cleared, then the fuel was sold as ULSD. I would think that unless a station was on a fringe area between two pipelines where one had LSD and the other had ULSD that you are going to get one or the other and with LSD being fazed out that once ULSD shows up then that is what will be sold since it is now the universal fuel. Then when the fuel is put into tankers, the jobber has the responsibility of putting in the necessary additives (hopefully).