Refrigerator Use When Traveling - Montana Owners Club

Bill Hill · 06-20-2005, 07:13 AM

I got into a discussion with a friend who is also an RVer and got to the topic of running the refrigerator while traveling. When I said that I leave mine on all the time, he said "Oh, you're one of those!" How do you all feel about this? His concern is that if you're running the refer on propane and go into a gas station, the fumes from the station could be set off by the flame running the refrigerator. Have I been a bad boy and an inconsiderate RVer by not turning off my fridge when fueling?

What say you all?

richfaa · 06-20-2005, 07:52 AM

Oh..he is one of those.. Fact.. Gas fumes are heaver than air and fall to the ground..that was a old high school experiment and the seal around the gas pump nozzles are there to prevent gas fumes from coming out..been running the refer for years and have not blown up anything..Now..can it happen... anything can happen..murphys law..if it can happen it will.So to be completly safe..turn the gas off when re fueling.

Jeff Heiser · 06-20-2005, 08:29 AM

Bill,
This topic has been talked about and talked about and about a month or two ago I started researching it (an inquiring mind). So far, I haven't found one report of an RV refrigerator or for that matter an RV hot water heater running off gas setting off a fire at a gas station. Now it could be that I just haven’t searched hard enough to find one or it could be an urban legend. My thoughts are: It is certainly possible for the pilot to start a fire but, I would be very surprised if safety standards in the industry are such that it would be a concern. If it were, I am sure something would have been done about it to correct the potential danger (sings, stickers on the TT or RV etc). My pilot is at the back of the TT inside a closed (yet vented) compartment about 4.5 feet off the ground. When I fuel up, the TT is always at least 35 feet away from the pump. I never pull through where I block more than 1 pump (the one I am on, it’s just inconsiderate to block more than 1 pump) even if it means I have to keep going to the next station. Okay, so if the pilot is at least 35 feet from the pump and the store’s front door, where people are on smoke break, is at a minimum 25 or 30 feet from the pump what's the difference? Or, how about the catalytic converter on the car that is glowing red that pulls in right over a puddle of spilt gasoline? It is a concern and should be but I am a rebel and travel with my refrigerator running off the propane when traveling. What I have found during my search is that there is a great deal of RV’ers with very strong feeling and arguments for both sides. Also, I do understand that just because I haven’t found any report of RV’s that were smoked while fueling a TV and or RV motor home doesn’t mean it cannot happen.

So now you have my two cents for what that’s worth.

God Bless America
Jeff Heiser
Merritt Island Florida

Montana_3371 · 06-20-2005, 12:39 PM

It is possible for fires to start at the fuel pump. Some are started by people sliding off the vehicle seat while fueling. Some pumps have signs instructing you not to get back into your vehicle while fueling. When I smoked years ago I used to fill the old tank with a PallMall fired up hanging from my lips. With the money I have invested and my love of my unaltered body I don't want to have an explosion. I doubt very seriously that it is necessary but I stop and turn off my frig before I get to the pumps.

sreigle · 06-20-2005, 01:05 PM

I think if I had written down the replies to that question for every discussion about that I've been in, probably 90% or more of us run the fridge 24x7, on the road or not. Like Jeff said, I don't recall ever hearing of a fire or explosion in a filling station caused by an RV pilot light or ignition device. But it is possible. I do recall someone dropping the gasoline filler and the spark when it hit the concrete caused a serious fire. That was at the Navy's filling station at the 32nd Street Naval Station in San Diego back in the 1970's when I was stationed there (nope, wasn't me).

As others have said, just use common sense. I go to the first diesel pump and let the Montana hang out behind where it's a good distance from the pumps. Then, of course, I pull it right past the pumps on the way out.

Some folks prefer to turn the fridge off when on the road and report they can go several hours without losing the cold from the fridge and freezer. If you choose that route, that's fine but we just leave ours running. The choice is yours.

old turbo · 06-20-2005, 01:46 PM

Can a lit frig make a boom at the pump, maybe . Think about all the cell phones in hand at the pumps, can also make a boom. Slide out of car or truck seat,static electricity,could also make a boom. Folks pull into the pump next to you and leave the motor running to put in fuel another boom, maybe.I want the beer in my frige to stay cold but I will shut my frig off before I get to the pumps. I have mentioned my cell phone concerns to folks and even pointed to the no no signs, but they pointed the middle finger at me and told me to butt off. The same to the car left running while fueling.The shop I worked at had safety programs if you operated fuel driven equipment. I saw all the goofy things people do and some of the consequences.

Montana_1424 · 06-20-2005, 04:02 PM

I am a HAZ MAT Technician in my fire department, so I know a little about the properties of gasoline, and i will try my best to explain one good point here. Gasoline does not burn, the vapors do. In order for them to burn, they have to be mixed with air properly, to lean or to rich will not burn. I believe gasoline vapors need to be between 1.4% - 7.4% in order to burn, anything outside that range will not burn. Also, as stated, the vapors are heavier than air, and therefore do not rise. It would be pretty tough for a fire to start from a refer. THe only reasin people have heard about cell phones and static electricty started them, beccasue that is a more common thing, talking on cell phones that is. Even that, though, is hard to start a fire. So I say, use the refer, I do, and as I said, I have a pretty good backround about this stuff.

Virgil · 06-20-2005, 05:16 PM

While gasoline vapors are supposed to be heavier than air, I wonder why I can smell vapors when I am filling. I don't crouch to the ground or anything. There are some light ends that are released when gasoline is warm. I think a good reason that fridges don't start many fires is that they are normally a fair distance from the fill point and the ambiant air disperses them. Gasoline stored in underground tanks is probably a bit safer than that stored in above ground tanks because of the temperature. Gasoline and all hydrocarbons are less volatile under cooler temps. I agree that cell phones, and even more so, static electricity, are more likely a fire than a fridge. Good thing a lot of us use diesels when pulling.

NJ Hillbilly · 06-21-2005, 02:31 AM

I leave mine on also, I figure I have a better chance getting run over crossing the gas station parking lot than the fridge causing a fire. This hasn't stopped me from getting a cup of coffee when I fill up.

To each is own.

John

Chester · 06-21-2005, 03:58 AM

I leave our refrig on only if I'm going to be travelling more than a couple of hours. The refrig will hold it's cool that long except in really hot conditions. Otherwise I take the cautious route and shut the propane tanks off. I boarded a ferry one time where the propane tanks were checked and tagged before I could get on the boat.

Bill Hill · 06-21-2005, 04:05 AM

Wow, what a wealth of information! I have to say that I tend to agree with those who say there is little cause for worry. If the danger level were that high, there would be a mandated safety tag on the refrigerator telling the owner to turn it off when fueling. Every rig I've ever owned had a tag by the waste valve saying that the cap has to be on when traveling. Of course, we have a diesel, so often I'm not even in the same line where there are gasoline pumps.

old turbo · 06-21-2005, 06:19 AM

It only takes 2, two minutes to be safe, only 1 one to be sorry.I always take 2 to be safe. We have all types of safety talks about being safe in every thing you do, have all types of safety people in to give talks.I WILL TAKE 2. Still shut off my frige, turn off the truck motor,turn off the cell phone or pager,Dont smoke so I dont worry about that. If you look around some of the fuel pumps at most stations, at least here in MI you will find the no,no, stickers. Of course they put these where most people dont look and fill the rest of the area with ads.

richfaa · 06-21-2005, 11:25 AM

Listen to the fireman(kozzy-45) he knows of what he speaks.. The fire chief of our local dept lives a few houses down the street and gives the same speech..I will take a experts advise..However..If it makes you feel better..turn the fridge off, Turn the cell phone off,Put a grounding strap on your pant leg and ground yourself before you get out of the TV.Do not leave the engine running, do not smoke and you might wear a fire retardant suit..just in case. Oh..do not fuel during a thunder storm..Lightening you know..seriously..it only takes a few seconds to turn the thing off if that gives you peace of mind..

ols1932 · 06-22-2005, 11:19 AM

It is evident from the previous posts that we think we're safe from anything happening if our reefer is on gas while refueling. However, in 1978 we observed a pull trailer that had burned badly setting in a shopping center in Tennessee. I asked the owner what had happened and he said that he was refueling his truck when there was an explosion on the reefer side of his trailer. Investigation proved that the fumes from the gasoline pumps on the other side from where he was fueling caused the fire.

I would rather be safe than sorry. Why take the chance? It only takes one time and you've got a bunch of rubbish on your hand, not to mention the possibility of personal injury.

While on the subject, I've experienced people smoking while refueling. Does the fact that the vapors from the gasoline go down keep them safe while they are smoking? I don't think it's smart to even tempt fate.

richfaa · 06-22-2005, 11:38 AM

Like I said..If it can happen it will. the post by ols 1932 proves that. Even though Gasoline fumes are heaver than air and will flow down to the ground in the above case it was a very low camper or a very high gas pump or the fumes went up instead of down...so ANYTHING can happen.Be safe..turn the refer off. Smoking while fueling is playing Russian roulette..it might go off..it might not..but if you play long enough you will lose....

old turbo · 06-22-2005, 11:42 AM

The one time is why I would rather be safe than sorry. If it only takes two minutes to do all this safety stuff I will do it.You cant prevent a tunderstorm, I am just going by what more experts than the local fire cheif knows about being safe at the fuel pumps. Lets add another one its a no, no,to put gas in a container while its in the bed of a pickup.I know most attendants at these party store/fuel stops dont inforce the rules but I think their is a pamphlet out that sez they are suppose to stop the pumps if they catch someone leaveing their motor running while fueling. If some of these were not an issue then why do the states put all these warning stickers on the pumps. I think its on the pumps to protect the states butt in case something did happen.

Searchers · 06-22-2005, 11:57 AM

We've traveled for quite a few years with the propane left on and had no mishaps. When going up the inside passage a few years ago by ferry they made us turn off the propane at the tanks and sealed them for the 36 hour trip. You'd be surprised at how long the unit holds if the door is kept closed.

I believe the main concern with having the tank valves on in transit is the situation that could develop in an accident or vibration resulting in a broken propane line.

Virgil · 06-22-2005, 12:45 PM

When you pump gas at a station, the gasoline comes out of the end of the hose under pressure. Once the gasoline flows from the hose it goes to atmospheric pressure. That reduction in pressure is the biggest reason for the fumes. Under that depressuring not 100% of the vapors are totally heavier than air. They still rise somewhat. Add some 90 degree temps and the gasoline vapors become lighter still. The Lower Explosion Limit for gasoline is a very low percentage. I go back to my old saying, if you are standing there filling your vehicle and you can smell the gasoline vapors, they are not all going down to the ground. The "lighter end vapors" are very flammable and as the fireman says, it is the vapors that burn and not the liquid. Once the vapors ignite, it heats the liquid gasoline which produces more vapors and accelerates the combustion. As you all know, this is happens very quickly (immediately). The choice is up to the individual, and even if you are cautious enough to shut down your fridge, someone may pull into the next stall who doesn't.

Montana_2230 · 06-23-2005, 03:38 PM

I am of the 24/7 school I never turn mine off traveling or at home except for defrosting it. Now if there was a law saying you must, like in some tunnels, then I would comply with the law.

sreigle · 06-23-2005, 04:46 PM

I said ours is on 24/7 but the exception is where the law says the propane must be turned off, such as the 21-mile bridge/tunnel from the Norfolk area across Chesapeake Bay. We stopped on the other side and restarted the fridge and opened the propane but will always comply with the law. Thanks, Ray, for the reminder.

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