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Old 12-05-2004, 02:13 AM   #1
Richard
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$32,000 for a 2003 Montana 3670?

Hi all,

First post here and wondering if $32,000 for a pre-enjoyed 2003 (manufactured Sept. 2002) 3670 seems about "right" or is maybe a bit too high? (bearing in mind, it's a few days away from being 2 years old in 2005)

The unit seems to be in good shape but has some bubbling on the roof. These are smallish 1 to 2 inch bumps, occur on most of the roof surface and feel like some kind of membrane over the rubber roof. The ladder is none too steady on these units, so I've been reluctant to actually climb all the way up for the birds eye view. Besides the price, should I be worried about the bumpy roof?

Thanks,

Richard


 
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Old 12-05-2004, 02:16 AM   #2
Richard
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oops, didn't mean to post it to the towing vehicles section. Was posting out of search results and hit the wrong link. Sorry
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Old 12-05-2004, 02:42 AM   #3
RVBUDDY
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No problem Richard. Moved the thread to this section. I needed the practice moving threads anyway.

Welcome to the MOC. Good to see you posting.

Some of the roof experts will probably post in to help you. Price sounds great but replacing a roof is a major expense. Make sure someone you know inspects the roof.
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Old 12-05-2004, 05:02 AM   #4
Karl
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We had our roof replaced (under warranty) but the "flat rate" allowed by Keystone for the labor of installation in hours for replacement was listed as 32. So at about $80 per hour the cost of labor alone would have been over $2500 (not many places at $80 though!) Add to that the price of the replacement EPDM which would be a bit over $1000 and you have the idea of about what it might cost. We had not noticed any bubbles, but driving at 65 mph against a headwind, the first 10 to 15 feet of the roof shredded. As a person who has supervised the laying of EPDM on a number flat roof buildings (but not RV's), my diagnosis was 1) that the mastic had been allowed to set just a bit too much before the membrane had been applied, and 2) that the screws that fastened a "cap" over the front of the EPDM into the roofing deck had been "overtightened". When the speed of the air over the top of the unit caused the membrane to billow up, the overtightened screws were unable to hold it.

If the dealer from whom you are contemplating buying the unit says that the bumps are "no problem" I would be asking him/her to give you a special warranty for a year (or something like that) just in case. Or if you would be buying it from a private party, you might reduce the offering price by the cost of replacing the roof, or a % of the replacement cost.
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Old 12-05-2004, 06:07 AM   #5
sreigle
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I don't think an occasional small bubble here and there would be much problem but this sounds like a lot more than that. I agree with Karl about getting a guarantee from the dealer.

The ladder might move a little bit but should be pretty steady in general. I've used ours a lot (I weigh 190) and we carried two bikes on the ladder for the first 18 months of fulltiming. If this ladder doesn't seem like it would stand up to that I'd have it checked out to your satisfaction before signing.

I don't know if the price is good or not. You might check the rv section of http://www.nadaguides.com . Be careful to know what is standard and what is option. A lot of the "options" they list are actually standard and included in the base price. Don't want to unnecessarily inflate actual value. You should be able to get an idea of what is standard and what is option from the standards and options list at http://www.keystone-montana.com .

Good luck. The 3670 is a sweet model. Lots of 3670 owners here.
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Old 12-05-2004, 02:06 PM   #6
stiles watson
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You are avoiding a significant dollar outlay by looking at a "pre-enjoyed" unit. As you see by my signature, this is the same floor plan as mine. I have bubbles, but am not worried. I don't have leaks. Aesthetically, only the birds see the top of my rig, so I am unphased about appearance. I am more concerned about the low limb that poc-marked a series of little tears which I have to repair. If your unit is clean and without smell and/or lightly used, then join my preowned club and we'll cry all the way to the bank.
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Old 12-06-2004, 01:36 AM   #7
Richard
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M.O.C. #2499

Thanks for the replies. I checked the NADA site (interesting name for that) but found the prices based on the MSRP and the "recommended" selling/purchase/used price way higher than I would personally pay. (yes, I'm a cheapskate)

Does $32,000 sound like a fair price, if the roof turns out to be sound? (I'm having a tech take a look at it before we buy)

Thanks,

Richard

P.S. We checked the new roofs at the dealer and they look non-bumpy, but in the process, fell in love with the '05 3400RL layout.
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Old 12-31-2004, 09:59 AM   #8
Montana_2755
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Richard,
We also have a 2003 3670 big sky and have loved it from day one. We do have a few bubbles in the roof and there was something in the owners manual that addressed this issue, it wasn't much of a big deal. If you can get your hand on an owners manual you will be able to checkout the exact verbage.
Good Luck
Bobby A
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Old 12-31-2004, 11:11 AM   #9
Glenn and Lorraine
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First of all, Welcome Richard and Bobby A to the MOC family.

Richard,
I would suggest calling Montana Customer Service at (574) 535-2100. Ask them about the roof and any other questions you may have. I am sure they would be only too glad to assist you. It may not hurt to tell them that the folks at montanaowners.com told you to call.

And as there seems to be afew others with the same situation, after you call them let us know what they had to say.

Good luck


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Old 12-31-2004, 11:41 AM   #10
azstar
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Hello Richard,

First of all wecome to the MOC Forum.

I'm familiar with the bubbling, have some of my own, but not as many as you describe. Been watching them for a year or so and so far not a problem.

The thing that intrigues me is your comment about a possible membrane over the rubber roof. I'm very interested in what the RV Tech. has to say about this. Please post his comments about this.

Thanks and Happy Camping
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Old 12-31-2004, 11:50 AM   #11
Montana_657
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Richard, you don't say where you live, so I won't go into the short comings of Montana winterization, nor do you say if it has thermopane windows, and Arctic package.

Pull off a ceiling air condioning duct diffusers.. On our 3670 the diffusers did not penetrate the ceiling duct through the holes cut in the duct. They all had to be redone.

You give no indication of the miles on the coach. The links on the springs start to fail after 12,000 miles... give or take ... depends if it was towed over rough roads. Chances are by 12,000 the nylon bushings will be shot for sure.

Look for cracks in the ceiling mouldings. The factory installs a cove moulding... all factory joints should be cut to a 45 degree angle. If the coach flexed and the moulding broke... it is a 90 degree break, and a bit rougher then a saw cut.

Measure the tread on the tires, both inside and out. Bent axels will wear the tire uneven, inside balding before outside. Seems to be a common problem if it has Alko 6000lb axels.

If I think of anything else I will post later. Keep us posted on what you find.
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Old 01-09-2005, 02:21 AM   #12
Richard
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Hi Gruffy,

I just happened to see your last response on this "old" message. We wound up buying a Montana 3400RL that we found "used" on Ebay.com. We bought it for $34,500 and it's a 2004 so we feel pretty lucky because it's the EXACT model we wanted and it's got all the options. We also inadvertantly got a years rental at a local trailer park that cost the original owner $3000 and although he didn't want to give it away, the management wouldn't let the rig stay unless he gave us the space!

I found this thread by looking to see if you responded again to my inverter thread, and I'm on page 6 here, so I must have missed it somewhere.

Thanks,

Richard

P.S. The Alko axle tubes seem to be bent on ALL the models, not just the used ones. I think they may adjust "camber" by bending the tube and toe-in/out by sliding the Alko assembly forward and back on the frame channel. The "axles" are really just hubs from what I can tell and there's no shaft going through the tube that looks bent. Is this what you meant by bent axles?
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Old 01-09-2005, 10:19 AM   #13
Montana_657
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Whoops... just found this Richard.. The common axel problem is the camber via the tube. The axel is a long tube with spindles on the end. The brakes and hubs bolt on. The tube itself should be slightly higher in the center with no wieght on it...theory being, the load on the wheels will reduce the bend somewhat and everything will be more or less straight.

We don't have that problem... we have compression of the tube under the spring. The tube is oval and the u bolts spread at the bottom. The result is a bit of bending, right under the spring. I don't think this problem is all that common, but it's clear the suspension would not stand up to the bumps on US#2....

I am pondering an upgrade to 8,000 pound axels and springs... how that goes will be subject of a later post.
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