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Old 02-18-2005, 08:49 AM   #1
Richard
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tacoma tire replacement?


We have a "pre-enjoyed" 2004 3400RL and I'm thinking of replacing the OEM Tacoma tires with new Michelin trailer tires. Anyone have any suggestions or comments regarding the changing of brands or experience in what to expect, ride-wise?

The former owner had a blow-out and although the tire wear on the other 3 is neglegible, I would prefer to have all 4 the same brand and wear. Plus, I've never heard of Tacoma tires before, and I'm an unabashed fan of michelin automotive tires.

Thanks,

Richard

P.S. I did a search on this subject, going back a year, and there is suprisingly LITTLE commentary on this subject, so if you have some good input, please don't be afraid of redundant commentary!
 
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Old 02-18-2005, 09:47 AM   #2
OntMont
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Little seems to be known about the Tacoma brand other than that they are aparently made by Cooper Tire. They seem to have a good track record. I don't recall any negative comments being posted here.

I like Michelin tires too, but if the other three tires show little wear, I think for my money, I would just get another Tacoma, even if I had to order it from Keystone.
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Old 02-18-2005, 03:41 PM   #3
sreigle
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I've sure heard of a lot of problems with both Goodyear and Michelin trailer tires, especially blowouts. We've had a number of bad Goodyear tires. I've not tried Michelin trailer tires although I really like their car and truck tires. I've not heard of hardly any problems with the Tacoma/Cooper tires so would like to hear whether others are having problems with them.

Like you, I prefer to keep all one brand on the trailer but my Goodyears keep going bad one at a time before the others are worn out so I keep replacing with another Goodyear. I may never reach the point where all four are ready for replacement at the same time unless maybe all four go bad at the same time (sure hope not).
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Old 02-18-2005, 04:09 PM   #4
H. John Kohl
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Another thought is, Is it the tires or actually the RIM that is failing. I have read on some other forums where the rims have developed the leak and we know that once a tire is soft it will blow quick with all that weight generating heat. I am seriously thinking of getting the remote tire pressure gage gadget. Expensive for ten or 12 tires if you include the two spares. Since I am on R&R my time is more critical than the money and one prevented blowout is definitely worth the money.
My $.02.
Everyone have a safe time.
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Old 02-18-2005, 04:35 PM   #5
sreigle
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John, you may be right. Since we don't notice the flat on the trailer like we would on the truck we tend to keep on driving until someone signals us. By then the rim has shredded the tire. It may not have been a blowout at all but just a shredded tire. Here's a picture of a Goodyear on our 1999 Jayco Eagle 255BH:

I really think I had this one under pressurized. We had done about 400 miles that day on a very hot summer day. This blew on US 50 5 miles west of Sedalia, MO.

John, if you get the tire pressure sensors, check them out closely. I have a set around here somewhere that I spent about $500 on and I consider them worthless. They eat batteries like crazy. When the battery is low it signals the unit in the cab. The cab unit puts out a very high pitched beep that is beyond what I can hear and is not very loud in any case. Plus, the signal from the Montana wheel sensors often doesn't make it to the antenna that hung down below the truck. When the batteries wore down too much then they naturally quit signaling the cab. They were a royal pain. I forgot the brand but will check for that if you want to know - email me. If doing it again I'd go with a better brand. I think mine were something like TireSentry. I had them on both the truck and the trailer. They're now in a drawer somewhere.
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Old 02-18-2005, 05:37 PM   #6
Richard
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M.O.C. #2499

Thanks for the replies. I'm thinking "new tire time" because the previous owner had a blowout and some denting/damage resulted. I don't want that to happen again.

Also, when pulling the Montana sharply through a turn on pavement (cab approx. 90 degrees with Montana), I noticed that the Tacomas on the front axle have TERRIBLE side wall flex! (In my younger years, I was an auto tech for some time and I can tell you that cheap tires ALWAYS have weak sidewalls and more expensive tires are really a BEAR to get off the rim with/without a tire machine because of sturdier construction)

I know......it's not real scientific, but I'm just a little queasy about taking my family and the beautiful new 3400RL down the road without good tires.

Anyone actually change from Tacoma tires to Michelin and experience a worse ride? I think that the Montana pulls very well the way it is, and you know what they say about "pioneers." (You can tell who they are by the arrows in their backs)

Thanks again,

Richard
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Old 02-18-2005, 07:42 PM   #7
richfaa
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I have been using Cooper Truck tires on my tow vec for years.My Trailer replacement tires are also Cooper trailer tires.Of course those of us that have been RVing for awhile understand that tire pressure is very important.Improper pressure kills more tires than anything else.Part of your "pre-trip" should include ..check tire pressure.Also I don't think I have ever replaced a set of truck/camper tires because of tread wear but rather weak sidewalls..you get that ..something does not feel right..feeling and it will be weak sidewalls..I alway get the highest rated ply sidewalls I can find..My present Cooper truck/camper tires have 21,000 on them and everything feels fine..But if I was to keep the truck/camper I would be replaceing at @ 30,000 miles no matter what. A small price to pay for safety.
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Old 02-19-2005, 02:24 AM   #8
sreigle
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Richard, are you seeing extreme sidewall flex or are you seeing the angle change that these trailers do when turning? Ours looks like something back there is bent. If you are seeing more than usual sidewall flex then I wonder if maybe the tires are not the proper tires for the trailer. Like did the previous owner put car tires on it? The trailer tires should either be ST or LT and either load range D or E depending on the tire size. The weight rating for the tire should be more than 3000 lbs per tire on that trailer. You probably already know all this so I hope I'm not insulting you. It's very hard to tell level of awareness from a post or two. Yours is a really good question and I'm looking forward to reading all the replies. Thanks.
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Old 02-19-2005, 03:37 AM   #9
Richard
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Steve, I'm seeing extreme sidewall flex, not the normal bending of the axle unit from being pulled sideways. And yes, the tires are the OEM Tacomas that are standard on our unit from the factory.

I don't want to paint myself into a corner here, but when I worked as a GM tech years ago, I was occasionally pressed into service changing tires and after a few hundred of those, I started to form opinions about tires and the importance of stiff sidewalls. I noticed a large porportion of weak sidewall tire blowouts and almost NO sidewall blowouts on still "stiff" sidewalls. Usually, the stiffer sidewall "blowouts" were caused by a foreign object sticking through the tread, then as the tire lost pressure , the object would be pushed through the sidewall by the weight of the vehicle and "blow" out the tire due to a secondary puncture and (obviously) under inflation.

Slow leaks, whether from punctures, schrader valve leaks, rim porosity, etc, were BY FAR the most dangerous condition, because people tend to just keep adding air to a tire that loses air slowly, rather than getting it replaced.

That said, stiff sidewalls also result in a much stiffer harsher ride, and that was really the question I wanted to have answered by someone with experience in this area.

I've read most of the related posts over on rv.net (woodalls, trailer life, et. al) and there ARE some very unhappy michelin and Goodyear customers, but I can't decide if I should pay attention to those because I'm only experienced with Michelin AUTO tires, not truck or trailer tires, and I understand they are not made in the same factory or even the same country. (!)

Michelin auto tires are very fine tires in my experience, and although I don't believe in getting the "high mileage" versions (higher mileage tires are made of harder rubber and don't have the traction properties of softer rubber), I still believe in the stiff side wall characteristics that I mentioned above, and a worn out michelin is nearly as hard to get off the rim as putting a new one on. (to me, that translates to a tough bead and sidewall)

Hope I haven't bored you with this little tire diatribe, and although it's just my dated observations, I thought it might bear repeating. We're all pretty much at the mercy of the best tire manufacturer we can find.

Still hoping to hear from someone who's replaced Tacoma with Michelin or Goodyear, and how you like the new "meats".

Thanks,

Richard

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Old 02-19-2005, 04:13 AM   #10
CountryGuy
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Richard,

Cannot help you, but your posts are very interesting, thanks for sharing your experiences!

Carol
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Old 02-19-2005, 05:46 AM   #11
sreigle
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Richard, you certainly have the background to make me trust your judgement. And I agree about the sidewalls. I thought maybe the previous owner had put car tires on the trailer and I hear those don't do well for the sidewall reason you describe. Since we've had lots of problems with Goodyear trailer tires and have heard of numerous complaints about Michelin trailer tires I'm not sure which I'd go with when someday we replace all of them. I think the pressure sensors are a good idea, I was just trying to convey the problems we had with the particular type we got so whomever looks into buying them will maybe make sure they get something that will work with them. We had the TireSentry before we started fulltiming and the batteries would die while we were not hitched up. Then, of course, they didn't report any pressure loss. So I'd have to check the batteries each outing and that was a royal pain. After fulltiming I had trouble with the batteries and with the signal not making it to the truck's antenna so they ended up not being worth the effort for me. But there are better choices out there that would be valuable to have.

I'd still like to hear from anyone else who has had problems with the Tacomas since someday we'll again have to replace the tires we have now.

Thanks.
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Old 02-19-2005, 05:47 AM   #12
Glenn and Lorraine
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Not wanting to start a ****** match here so I will just say this.....

I spent nearly 17 years in the tire business. 14 of those years. 1971 thru 1985, as a partner with my brother as a tire distributor/wholesaler/retailer and my brother just last week retired at age 67 after 40+ years and finally turned over the business to my nephew who has 20 years experience in the tire business. For those that have doubts of what I just said Click Here. Most of what I have read to this point I pretty much have to disagree with.

My Monty has the Tacoma as most new Montys do and yes they are made by Cooper. If for any reason I have to replace them I would have absolutely no problem replacing them with the Tacoma or any other of the brands mentioned above.
As far as "sidewall flex"? All of today's tire have sidewall flex. They aredesigned to have sidewall flex. Folks these are not your grandfathers tires. In my younger years most all tires were bias ply tires. With the bias ply the plys of cord run on the bias or angle. And when you bought an 8 ply tire that's what you got, 8 plys in the tread area and 8 plys in the sidewall making for a very stiff, rigid tire with little or no flex. Than came the era of the bias belted, as an example the 8 ply belted had 8 plys in the tread area only with 2, 4, or 6 plys in the sidewall. Today we have Radial Ply tires where the cords in the tread run the radius of the tire and the sidewall cord runs perpendicular to the tread plys. The very design of the radial tire is to allow more flexing in the sidewall and less flexing in the tread area. So YES you do see sidewall FLEXING afterall thats the nature of the radial ply tire.
As for tire failure...
Tires fail for many reasons but the biggest reason by far is LOW tire pressure. The air in the tires MUST BE CHECKED at LEAST every other week and ALWAYS when the tires are cold. Best time to check your tires are first thing in the morning before they have been run down the road and before the sun shines on them. Get yourself your own tire gauge and only use that gauge to check your tires. Never use the gauge attached to some nozzle on the air pump at some service station. If you notice any fluctuation in pressure have the tire checked asap. Just a note..An underinflated tire will show more wear on BOTH shoulders than in the center of the tread and an overinflated tire will show more wear in the middle than the shoulders. A tires showing cupping or wear on one shoulder more so than the other is in need of alignment.

One last thing, get it out of your head that just because the sidewall says Michelin or GoodYear or Goodrich or Firestone or UniRoyal, etc it is better that the rest. Some of the smaller manufacturers and most all of the Japanese brands are just as good and in some cases better and in fact are quite often owned by the big guys. After the big Firestone/Ford Explorer tire debacle a few years ago many Firestone customers turned their backs to Firestone and switched over to Bridgestone. Well guess who owns Firestone....yep, Bridgestone. Bridgestone purchased Firestone back in 1988. Today most folks are aware of that but back than few knew. Oh, BTW, ask anyone in the tire industry, it was a Ford problem and Firestone ended up taking the fall. But I digress.....
When shopping for tires always ask for the top of the line for that particular brand. In other words the best tire for your purpose that that manufacturer builds. Do this with all the brands and than compare prices. This way you are comparing apples to apples. Ask to see the dealers copy of The Tire Guide (Known as "The Tire Industry Bible"). Every reputable tire dealer has this guide. In it you can compare the different manufacturers to be sure you are comparing apples and not apples and oranges.
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Old 02-19-2005, 08:04 AM   #13
CountryGuy
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Glenn

You never fail to amaze us with all the tidbits of knowledge (well, more than a tidbit here) you are tottin around in that brain of yours. First a fishing camp, now tire business! COOL!

Like I said before, a very interesting thread of information here.

Carol
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Old 02-19-2005, 08:33 AM   #14
Montana_2296
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I have the same opinion regarding sidewalls. I have been in the auto repair industry for more than 25 years and have felt for a long time that the tires with softer sidewalls had a lot more trouble with failures. On our last trailer it had Carlisle tires, and we had one fail. They sent me a replacement under warranty, but the replacement was a differnt style. I called and asked them about it and they informed me that the replacement was made in China and the original was made in the USA by Goodyear. The replacement had much softer sidewalls, but it was just put on the spare rim, and it was free so I let it go. What is amazing is the the orinial is the line that had all of the failures that they talk about on the other forum. I hope we have better luck with the "Mission" tires that are on the Moutaineer.
We all do really abuse these tires, with heavy weights, curbs, sharp turns and other obstacles. It is truly amazing that there are not more problems. Just the nature of the beast...
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Old 02-19-2005, 09:13 AM   #15
sreigle
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Excellent information, Glenn. However, I know for fact the last three or four Goodyears that failed us were not underinflated since I check them regularly. This one is a good example although I had only one of this problem:

However, I do agree with you that the majority of tire failures on trailers is due to underinflation. while only the first of ours was underinflated to start with, I do think the others picked up a nail or puncture of some kind and went flat. Being on the trailer we do not even notice the flat, no sway, no indication of any kind, so we continue to run down the road until the rim slices that tire to pieces. Those pieces fly and cause damage and the tire ends up looking a lot like my earlier post in this thread. And we assume it's a blowout when it really wasn't. Just my opinion. I'm sorry to say we've been there way too many times, enough that I'm really fed up with the Goodyear tires, especially after the one in the picture above. Also, I've had three Goodyear Marathons replaced under warranty (prorated all but once) because of belt separations. That's not good worksmanship and is one of the reasons I won't buy Goodyear again.

As a side note, I found it very interesting that GM actually had a higher percentage of Firestone rollovers than did Ford but the media did not publicize that simply because GM had a far smaller population using the Firestone tires. That was too bad about the Firestones. I really liked the Steeltex tires we had on one of our trucks.

Glenn, good info. Thanks.
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Old 02-19-2005, 10:05 AM   #16
Glenn and Lorraine
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by CountryGuy

Glenn

You never fail to amaze us with all the tidbits of knowledge (well, more than a tidbit here) you are tottin around in that brain of yours. First a fishing camp, now tire business! COOL!

Like I said before, a very interesting thread of information here.

Carol
Well in my 60 years I had many, many differnt jobs. Hell back in the 50's I was one of the first kids to sell the TV Guide door to door. Back than it cost 15 cents of which I kept 4 but most of my customers gave me a quarter. Spent 5 years as a truck driver in the Army. Got out just as Vietnam was building up. On the outside I drove truck for a number of years, worked in a steel mill but that only lasted 3 months, than the tire business, even sold Fords for awhile and finished as head of the fire equipment purchasing department for a national industrial safety equipment distributor. Had a very varied thou not too lucrative career.

My last "fun" job though was right here on the Internet as a self-employed web site designer. The Adams Tire site that I linked to previously is some of my handy work and one of 2 sites I still maintain. I sold off all the rest. BTW-The name of my business was DAMIFINO Publications.
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Old 02-20-2005, 02:25 AM   #17
NJ Hillbilly
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The flexing side wall is a necessary piece of the suspension puzzle. Watch the tires as You drive and You will see the flexing as the trailer bounces. There is a lot of weight and overhang behind the axle that when travelling puts a great amount of stress on the suspension. If there was no flex in the tire sidewall the trailer suspension would have to absorb all the shock and stress from the road.

If You notice the heavier trailers (Newmar, etc) don't run LT tires they run the stiffer sidewall Goodyear G series trailer tire. Ever watch then going down the road? The sidewall of those tires are working the same as our LT's are.

Flexing while turning is another necessity. If the tire sidewall did not flex then all of the twisting stress would have to be absorbed by the suspension. This would not be a good thing. The heavier trailers flex the stiffer sidewall tires just like out trailers flex the LT's.

I believe I read a while ago that trailer mfg's were switching to LT's because they would flex a little more than the ST tires.

I feel the LT's are the way to go since they are realitively inexpensive (compared the Goodyear trailer tires) and readily avaliable(Wal-Mart, BJ's, Costco, or any tire shop has a tire in this size in stock). You probably could pull into any town and find a LT tire somewhere.


John
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Old 02-20-2005, 05:40 AM   #18
sreigle
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What about matching LT and ST on the same axle? Same story as mixing load ranges on an axle, which I now understand is a no-no. OK on different axles, though?

Thanks.
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