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12-11-2012, 03:16 AM
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#1
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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Belly freeze part II
I wired a switch to run the furnace fan without the flame on to keep the belly warm. It doesn't care for Chicken soup, so that was all I could do..
It is real simple, just get a switch, some 2-wire thermostat wire, a few electrical connectors. All available at Radio Shack, or any auto parts store.
Just tap into the fan wire at the printed circuit board, tap into a 'hot' 12 volt wire and there you is.
Slide-show:
http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n194/JimsSue13/Ozzsmods101/Electrical%20pics/Furnace%20fan%20control%20switch/
The reason for this is when you use electric heat, no warm air is in the belly, and stuff will change state: liquid to solid.. not good.
Use the thermometer in the other thread, or get a cool remote-read electronic thermometer you can't find the right batteries for.
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12-11-2012, 03:26 AM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Englewood
Posts: 3,095
M.O.C. #164
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Correct me if I am wrong but I think with the fan running with no flame you sre going to be drawing cold outside air through the furnace air intake.
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12-11-2012, 03:38 AM
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#3
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Established Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Clearwater
Posts: 37
M.O.C. #11308
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Running the fan with the furnace turned off will draw warm inside the rig air (its a closed system)and circulate it. This will probably cause a cold draft within the rig, but it will slightly heat the underbelly.
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12-11-2012, 03:50 AM
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#4
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wilsey
Posts: 18,799
M.O.C. #11455
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And if you're using electric heat will move the heat more evenly throughout the rig. Good idea as always Ozz. You're 100 times worse than I am about the number of things you've changed that would make it highly unlikely that you'd want a new rig. I've already told Keystone that since they don't offer IS and disk brakes why would I want to buy a new rig and go backwards?
__________________
Dick, Joyce, Diego, Picatso and Gustav
2017 3720 RL, and 2013 HC 343RL
Pullrite Hitch, IS, Disk Brakes, 3rd AC, Winegard Traveler, Bathroom door mod, Dometic 320, couch for desk swap, replaced chairs, sun screens, added awnings, etc.
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12-11-2012, 04:18 AM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Englewood
Posts: 3,095
M.O.C. #164
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[quote]Originally posted by Paddler
Running the fan with the furnace turned off will draw warm inside the rig air (its a closed system)and circulate it. This will probably cause a cold draft within the rig, but it will slightly heat the underbelly.
On the outside of the unit their is an Exhaust and Intake for the furnace.With the fan running you are going to be drawing cold air from the outside, I do not understand when you are saying a "Closed System"
An RV furnace draws in out side air for combustion
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12-11-2012, 04:19 AM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chilliwack
Posts: 1,520
M.O.C. #12935
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Had thought of doing what you have done Ozz, but the fan moves a lot of air around and would certainly create some drafts. I considered using a rheostat to control the speed of the fan, running at half speed or less would not only use less 12V it would still circulate the air but would not be nearly as drafty.
I will be doing something similar to what you have done, but like the idea of "gently" moving the air around.
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12-11-2012, 04:46 AM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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Not drafty at all, they don't move that much air to cause a draft. Now, all this depends on how warm, or how cool the air is.
I used mine this morning, just to move the warm air from the solar gain from the hot Arizona sun.
Look at the furnace as an envelope, the air around the closed envelope is what comes into the trailer from the inside of the trailer living space. The air entering the outside air intake moves through the inside of the envelope and back out.
In paint booth's and in commercial kitchens, they use a 100% outside air heater, but they really use a bunch of gas.
I imagine in extreme cold, it would not work, but would help.
That is where the temperature monitoring of the underbelly comes into play.
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12-11-2012, 05:14 AM
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#8
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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12-11-2012, 06:07 AM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chilliwack
Posts: 1,520
M.O.C. #12935
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In my 3402RL the furnace is under the shower approximately, the cold air return draws from under the steps and the part of the compartment between the steps and the storage compartment. This area is cold when using electric heat, I assure you the air being moved around would be a lot colder than that near the electric heater/s by having the fan running. I can feel the cold air on my legs already, and I am sitting in my S&B....lol
My "envelope" may be somewhat different than yours, and in cooler weather an electric heater has to work pretty hard to keep it comfortable in the unit, I don't want to introduce any more of that colder air into the equation than is necessary.
Not sure what the link is for, the heaters used in a RV have not changed much in 30 years, they have always used external air for the combustion chamber, so that cold air does not enter into the picture.
Like your S&B furnace they are separate compartments. It is just too bad someone has not found a way to make them RV furnaces more efficient
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12-11-2012, 06:28 AM
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#10
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Santa Fe
Posts: 270
M.O.C. #11454
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what if you're on shore power, getting a small electric heater and just using the fan function, less draw on 12v and converter
mikey
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12-11-2012, 10:49 AM
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#11
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Santa Fe
Posts: 270
M.O.C. #11454
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opps that would move air to basement but not intounderbelly ducts
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12-11-2012, 12:30 PM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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the link was for Ken, showing how heat exchangers work. Outside air is used in the combustion chamber only, then exits the furnace.
If you use an electric heater and warm the interior space 20 degrees, that warm air will circulate below in the bottom. If you don't want to use a furnace fan for circulation, don't. I do and like it. To each his or her own.
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12-12-2012, 03:57 AM
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#13
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Filer
Posts: 51
M.O.C. #12412
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I don't want to be a smart a__ but my T stat has a fan option mode with high, med and low. I just set it to low without the furnace opt. You guys have fun down in the sun we just got back to the cold and are ready to return. Maybe next year for the winter, I think I have convinced the DW on going south.
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12-12-2012, 04:16 AM
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#14
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by travelinsparky
I don't want to be a smart a__ but my T stat has a fan option mode with high, med and low. I just set it to low without the furnace opt. You guys have fun down in the sun we just got back to the cold and are ready to return. Maybe next year for the winter, I think I have convinced the DW on going south.
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No problem! I have an old montana, no such option on mine. You folks with those new-fangled tralers have all the goodies! I think Keystone stold a few of my Mods..just sayin..
Come back! it does get a little cool at night, but a light sweater is good for that. Winter well my friend.
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12-12-2012, 04:21 AM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Copperas Cove
Posts: 1,426
M.O.C. #12096
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Mine has the fan setting on the T-stat but I thought that was the overhead AC that was fan only which would not do any good to pump air into the basement....now you got me thinking and gotta go check it out...
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12-12-2012, 04:28 AM
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#16
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by steelpony5555
Mine has the fan setting on the T-stat but I thought that was the overhead AC that was fan only which would not do any good to pump air into the basement....now you got me thinking and gotta go check it out...
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You might check this: Turn the breaker off to the A/C. Then try the fan switch.
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12-12-2012, 04:48 AM
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#17
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chilliwack
Posts: 1,520
M.O.C. #12935
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Well your fan switch solution has not been copied by Keystone so far to 2012 Ozz, the fan speed is for the AC only, not the furnace. You can run the AC in fan only mode at different speeds.
Just checked mine.
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12-12-2012, 04:51 AM
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#18
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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Yikes!
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12-13-2012, 01:09 PM
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#19
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Logan
Posts: 104
M.O.C. #7928
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When it's chilly, we use two Lasko heaters much more than the propane furnice.
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12-13-2012, 03:41 PM
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#20
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Dundas
Posts: 406
M.O.C. #10690
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Thanks Ozz. That's exactly what I'd like to do. If it's colder out, I'll just run more electric heaters in a couple of locations. The circulating air will eventually come up to a comfortable temperature. We run the fan on our S&B to prevent cold pockets in the house. We have the fan setting on the Montie thermostat as well and it only runs the AC fan so this will be great.
Having an HVAC pro on the forum is great not to mention all the other mods you've done, all with pictures and explanation. Is the wiring to the furnace fan easily accessible?
Dave
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