Reverse polarity fuses - Page 2 - Montana Owners Club

don m · 12-16-2007, 07:51 AM

pluging into camp ground pedestal will not change the dc the only way the dc would change would be if you change the wiring the converter changes the ac current to dc one way only if the camp ground wiring is wrong it could burn up a lot of electrical equipment including the converter this may or may not mess up the dc system a serge protecter should help but with bad pedestal wiring anything could happem don m

bw2 · 12-16-2007, 12:12 PM

Ozz,

Yes, it is the right hand 30 amp 12v (green) fuse. Yeas, I am at a loss at the moment. Everything was fine all summer and into the fall. After the last trip in October I began the fall preparations to store for the winter. I blew the fuse, again while operating the slides. Replaced the fuse and then all was well for the next few times I operated the slides. Then the fuse started blowing again. I have checked the cleanliness and tightness of the battery connections, the grounds for the battery and the slide motor. The battery tests good and there is the proper amount of water. The charger showed a full charge when I connected. So, now checking for a loose connection on the fuse holder and a call to Team Montana to see if they can give me any guidance. I will keep everyone up to date on the final resolution. I am always open to new ideas or past experiences! So keep'em coming.

rogue · 12-16-2007, 12:52 PM

I assume when you said you checked the ground on the battery and slide motor, you made sure the black ground wire from the motor was tight and connected to a frame ground, and not the plastic tray? Also have you been able to identify if it happens with one slide in particular, like the big one on the 3400? Does the slide motor have one or two resetable breakers near the motor?

Ozz · 12-16-2007, 02:04 PM

I, like Steve S. added a ground wire on the slide motor for insurance.
You could parallel a 30 amp fuse with the one that is blowing (if) you can access the backside of the 12 volt panel, I am strictly guessing, as it may be part of the circuit board with no access for this extra fuse. But while you have it off to access the back, you can look for discoloration and a possible fracture of the wiring path there. This is strange, as the panel fuse is blowing, almost seems like a loose connection there, as heat caused by increased resistance is blowing the fuse, rather than over-amping. ???????

Ozz · 12-17-2007, 01:08 AM

OK, I have an idea. Bear with me on this.
Turn off the 120 volt supply breaker to your converter. Turn on all your lights, scare lights included, turn up the furnace so the furnace fan runs, turn on the exhaust fan for the stove, (Don't turn on the fantastic fan, as I know it's cold there) leave all those loads on for 15 or 20 minutes to put a heavy draw on your battery. See if that blows that 30 amp 12 volt fuse. I am thinking you have a bad cell, or weak trailer battery, it may show good volts, but may be weak. The converter alone will make the slides move slowly, it takes a good battery to make them work as they should.
After 20 minutes or so, turn the breaker back on.
How old is the battery? What was the reading on the battery when you tested it? If the battery is a few years old, I would replace it if there is any doubt. Consider installing 2 6 volt batteries from Sam's, for your 12 volt power supply.
Let me know how this little test comes out.

don m · 12-17-2007, 08:17 AM

put an amp probe on the slide pump wires and see what its drawing

Ozz · 12-17-2007, 11:13 AM

Don, I think the slide pump comes directly off the battery cables, and is fused separately there, the converter feeding back the charge to the battery.
He is having the fuse blow on the 12 volt panel, the one marked Reverse Polarity.
My thought is that the battery may have a short, or is bad in some way when under a heavy load, causing the fuse to blow up on the 12 volt power supply...somehow. The converter charge wires are tied into the battery, I don't know, just trying to think of any possibility.
That's why I suggested to load the battery down with 12 volt lights and so on to test it under load. I have a battery checker that will put a 50 amp load on it to test it. That will show a weak battery.

Broome101 · 12-17-2007, 01:03 PM

Ozz just another thought here as well. Battery may be fine he may have loose converter connection on the panel itself. My buddy's Mountaineer 07 model was doing same thing this past summer. It had me stumped why in world was fuss blowing, I pulled panel one more time and just by accident caught the converter neutral wire on my meter leads and it pulled out. I did try tightening all the connections several times, turns out the wire was not really in the slot good and was making slight connection but was really not in there at all. Just a hunch he may want to look at that as well. we put it back in tightened all down worked perfect since then.

Ozz · 12-17-2007, 03:05 PM

Good call on that idea, I don't know if he has checked that. I'm hoping he will get back to us.
The loose connection would be a heat factor, melting the fuse link.

SlickWillie · 12-18-2007, 01:56 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Broome101

Ozz just another thought here as well. Battery may be fine he may have loose converter connection on the panel itself. My buddy's Mountaineer 07 model was doing same thing this past summer. It had me stumped why in world was fuss blowing, I pulled panel one more time and just by accident caught the converter neutral wire on my meter leads and it pulled out. I did try tightening all the connections several times, turns out the wire was not really in the slot good and was making slight connection but was really not in there at all. Just a hunch he may want to look at that as well. we put it back in tightened all down worked perfect since then.

I'm just curious. We have the 06 Mountaineer, and we don't have the polarity fuses in the panel. Were the 07 fuses in the panel or on the converter?

bw2 · 12-18-2007, 02:25 AM

Hello everyone!
I am still here. I have not had the time, due to Christmas parties, grand-children's Christmas plays, etc...plus it is REALLY REALLY REALLY cold, snowy, and windy (Indiana & wish we were in a warm weather climate). Ozz & Broome101, I plan to check the connections as I agree, may be the heat build of a loose connection. I also will take the battery to be tested. I plan on changing to two 6 volt batteries, I was just holding off until this battery had ran it's course (I am cheap, and want to get my full value)
The weather is to warm up a little this weekend and hopefully I can ge this checked out and up date everyone

Ozz · 12-18-2007, 02:44 AM

Will, it is on the Iota 12 volt fuse panel, the first two fuses.

SlickWillie · 12-18-2007, 03:56 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Ozz

Will, it is on the Iota 12 volt fuse panel, the first two fuses.

OZZ, our 06 Mountaineer has the WFCO (World Friendship Co.) distribution panel. No polarity fuses in the panel. I'm supposing they're on the end of the converter as in the pictures of the WFCO converter. I just was wondering if the Mountaineer now comes with the IOTA panel and converter.

Do you know if those two fuses in your panel are branch circuits. I noticed all the pictures of the Iota converters show fuses by the output lugs (only two lugs). That would indicate to me that on those units, the fuses are parallel. Maybe branch circuits when they fuse them on the panel? I've just got my curiosity up.

Ozz · 12-18-2007, 04:28 AM

I don't know, as the Iota guy told me there are no schematics, (he would give me)
Since the converter has fuse protection, the two fuses in the panel must be for the battery feedback, or they put them on every new panel just to protect the downstream loads, as I know they supply them to the R.V. industry as a whole, not just Keystone and Montana.
If I wasn't so lazy, I would take the panel down, turn it over and do some checking.

SlickWillie · 12-18-2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Ozz

I don't know, as the Iota guy told me there are no schematics, (he would give me)
Since the converter has fuse protection, the two fuses in the panel must be for the battery feedback, or they put them on every new panel just to protect the downstream loads, as I know they supply them to the R.V. industry as a whole, not just Keystone and Montana.
If I wasn't so lazy, I would take the panel down, turn it over and do some checking.

Yep, no schematics they'll let the consumer have! Hmmmm, years ago, before I started mechanicing, I did industrial electrical work in a wire and cable plant. Got to tinkering with electronics, and got a little bit of formal training. Man, I have to rack my brain now to read those schematics. The old saying, "if you don't use it you lose it" sure applies there.

I just checked a site for a company I used to get schematics from, Sam's Photofacts, but they don't have any thing on power converters (really doubted they would). I found one schematic on line, but it was for a Magnatec (?).

Warm again here; have fun on the island and drink a cold one for me. We head to East TX Thursday for a couple weeks for Christmas.

Ozz · 12-18-2007, 09:33 AM

Be careful on the road. Have a Merry Christmas.

Broome101 · 12-18-2007, 11:29 AM

My buddies 07 34PHT has Itoa in it just like mine.

bw2 · 12-22-2007, 03:40 AM

OK, here is an update. As of "right now" I am able to operate the slides in & out and NOT blow the 30 amp 12 v fuses marked POL and REV. I am really frustrated!!!!! The temps at 49 degrees while the temps were in the upper 30s when the fuse was blowing. The battery has tested good with no bad cells. I unplugged the AC power to ensure that only the 12v system was involved in the problem and the slides are operating fine as well, "Right now". So, I will be pulling the fuse panel out today and checking the connections on the fuses as well as checking the connections on the converter, both battery and ground.

Everyone have a Merry Christmas and very safe travels!

bw2 · 12-22-2007, 04:12 AM

I have just completed checking the panel. All connections are tight. The slides are working and not blowing the 30 amp fuse on the 12v panel. I did charge the battery on a separate charger, it did not request much of a charge, but it may be enough if the battery is on the edge. So after Christmas, a call to IOTA and Team Montana to see if I can get anything out of either.

I think I have in my mind the schematic for the 12v power from the converter and the battery to the 12v fuse panel. If you all think it will help others I will get this drawn up and post.

So for now, I believe if the battery is beginning to wear down, quicker depletion of the amperage & drop in voltage, the "diode" as discussed in part of this thread detects the difference in the voltage and this is detected and the fuse blows? (How does that sound, experts?)

Here is a web site on batteries and the 12v system, it has helped me with the theory anyway.
Battery Info

Again Merry Christmas and safe travels

Ozz · 12-22-2007, 06:54 AM

I am also confused, maybe Gremlins???
I hope it continues to be trouble free. I know sometimes when I get a call on this type of problem, I pull wires, ohm things, turn power on and off checking, then the darn thing works fine. Who knows what the heck happened, but as long as it works...that's good. (I am assuming that during the check out and trouble-shooting process, I have tightened wires or corrected a connection problem.)
We will keep our fingers crossed for you.
Ozz

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