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11-30-2006, 05:47 PM
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#1
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rockledge
Posts: 165
M.O.C. #1726
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Power Surge Did Some Cooking?
A couple days ago we had a momentary power outage, where the lights blinked and came back on in just a few cycles. It turns out that 3 appliances were "fried" - microwave, air purifier and noise maker. Of the three, only the air purifier was operating at the time. When power came back on, the air purifier was running at very high speed and was shut down rather quickly. We did not realize untill later in the evening that tme microwave was not working - no clock light and no heating. I found that breaker had tripped, and reset it but to no avail. The TV was running at the time but no damage was done to it. No other problems could be found, ie the converter seems to be operating ok, and the battery is staying charged.
Upon checking with the neighbors and the Power Company, there were no system outages at that time. I checked with Keystone who thought that the most likely cause was at the Park Power Pedastel where I was plugged into. It was thought that we probably received a momentary 240V on one of the 2 feeds causing the appliance failures. Probably because of a grounding issue. My question is, would a surge suppressor plugged into the 50 amp power cable have prevented the damage to appliances? It should be noted that the in-line fuse in the microwave was still intact even though the mother board was "fried". Also note that the microwave is being replaced throgh the extended warrantee.
Jim
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11-30-2006, 06:38 PM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Campbell River
Posts: 970
M.O.C. #4976
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Hi Jim,
I would think a surge suppressor should have saved the appliances that got fried. One other mistake we make in these trailers is putting wooden or plastic blocks/pads under the landing gear and rear stabilizers. That combined with the tires pretty much leave our trailers not grounded except the one little ground wire in the power cable. If we must have blocks under everything, we should run a grounding cable to a ground rod when running 120V power to the units. I know there is times I don't at least leave one part of the gear touching the actual ground, and I know I should.
J&D
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11-30-2006, 07:58 PM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Leona
Posts: 6,382
M.O.C. #2059
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I don't know much about 'lectricity, but had two power surge or lightning experiences in my stick house which cost me several appliances and two computers. That sent me searching for protective devices. I wanted a "whole house" protective device. The utility company offered an expensive device that would capture anomilies before they hit my breaker box. I found their price prohibitive.
My search continued at an electrical supply house of good reputation. They offered me a device for $50 that would attach to and wire into my breaker box. The manufacturer guarranteed it to work by offering replacement of protected equipment up to $10,000. The only stipulation was that a secondary surge device, such as the ones bought to put between the plug and the device itself, also needed to be in place.
My computer with all the manufacturer data on it is back in Texas, so I can't get to it from Hong Kong. Two companies that supply heavy duty surge supression and "whole house" devices are Tesco and APC. Sorry I can't currently give precise information.
In addition to your electrical service, a possible surge entry point is your data lines, i.e., your phone, cable connection, and/or hard-wired internet service. These, too, need consideration.
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11-30-2006, 08:07 PM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lone Tree
Posts: 5,615
M.O.C. #6109
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J&D,
You have a false sense of security that the landing gear or jacks serve as ground. Ground is not achieved until you are a minimum of 36" in the ground and then it must be verified by testing. The trailers are not designed to be grounded to earth, rather to themselves like an automobile. When connected to an external power source such as your pedestal, the ground cable in the cord serves as ground to the parks system. By adding a ground rod, you might actually be causing more risk for yourself in a lightning storm, as the trailer is not designed to absorb lightning to earth ground.
Jim, - I doubt the park service would be capable of providing 240VAC to one of your circuits, however - a momentary loss of the neutral can cause erratic voltage across both circuits. I don't know if a surge suppressor would prevent damage from that type of occurance. It would be interesting to know.
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12-01-2006, 02:01 AM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Cedar Rapids
Posts: 4,876
M.O.C. #1944
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Brad,
Technically you're correct about the ground. But ANY ground is better than none. Our rigs are designed the way they are and have passed all Federal Electrical Rules available according to RVAA. A surge protector would have helped in this case IF the failure was due to temporary surge (possible 240 V due to loose neutral) from the park pedestal. If there happened to be a loose neutral inside the rig then a surge protector would not have helped if connected to the park pedestal.
Most RV parks will not to admit to any possible failure on their part.
Orv
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12-01-2006, 03:01 AM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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I would get a surge protector that hard wires into the feed wires for your main panel.
Not expensive, easy to install.
I have the first picture is one installedon my home electrical panel, it is a few years old. The second picture I show, is the Montana surge protector, hard wired with my automatic transfer switch. The transfer switch is for the Inverter and or the generator feed.
The protector serves to protect both legs of your incoming power.
In the Montana picture, I have a power meter, and the Iota converter plug in control, which I suggest everyone should have. Also not expensive, and makes your battery more reliable and last longer.
Surge protector:
Photo one.
Photo two
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12-01-2006, 03:44 AM
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#7
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rockledge
Posts: 165
M.O.C. #1726
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Thanks to all for your input. I knew I came to the right source. Surge protection has been moved to top priority. What an awesome site. If others have had a similar problem or more input to be added, lets keep this thread going.
Jim
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12-01-2006, 07:49 AM
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#8
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wappingers Falls
Posts: 1,303
M.O.C. #6263
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Ozz, your killing me... I think I missed these on my "gotta have it" list!
Chuck
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12-01-2006, 10:39 AM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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All of you should have this on your 'Stick house' as well.
It covers everything supplied by the main panel.
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12-01-2006, 10:55 AM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lone Tree
Posts: 5,615
M.O.C. #6109
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Ozz - I plan to install one next to my new 2500kVA Pratt & Whitney turbine driven emergency generator for the stick house!
Seriously - is there something priced better than the $500 one at camping world?
Brad
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12-01-2006, 12:58 PM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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Yes, Google Intermatic.
Any electrical supply house, (maybe even Graingers in Denver-or wherever) will have them. I think I paid around $75.00 wholesale.
The expensive one may be a voltage buck boost transformer, Autoformer, I think. Many have them and love them.
I don't have one and probably will not end up with one. If my bulbs start to dim, I'll take appropriate action.
The spike is my main concern.
Ozz
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12-01-2006, 01:40 PM
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#12
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bradenton
Posts: 200
M.O.C. #6228
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Since I'm still a weekender and part timer in my rig, I use a relatively inexpensive surge protector that plugs into the post and checks the electricity before I plug I plug in my rig. The one I use is called a Smart Surge and here's a link to one.
http://www.rvlifestyles.net/ItemPage...e-7fd084550eed
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12-01-2006, 09:08 PM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Leona
Posts: 6,382
M.O.C. #2059
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There is more to the surge protection than meets the eye. Weekender or fulltimer, your incidental risk is the same. In other words, your exposure is per use, not how often you use your unit. Ozz is using the brand that I couldn't remember in my earlier post. Their website gives a good description of what surge protection needs to be. My personal loses have taught me that $50 to $75 is very, very cheap insurance for your electronics.
I also agree whole-heartedly with Ozz on the need for this device on your stick house. That is where I experienced the lose. You can go 15 years without a problem, but it only takes a second for a nearby lightening strike to cost you thousands. Insurance weedled out of it by saying there was no physical evidence on the structure that a strike had occured.
By-the-way, the appliances I lost had the multiplug extention cord surge protectors on them. The spike was too quick and too powerful for them to give the protection I needed. The surge was past them before they could suppress it. All surge suppressors are not equal.
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12-02-2006, 12:38 AM
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#14
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Flowery Branch
Posts: 55
M.O.C. #5837
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Ozz
I would get a surge protector that hard wires into the feed wires for your main panel.
Not expensive, easy to install.
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Ozz - Nice installation! Which Intermatic surge suppressor model did you install and where did you find it? Electrical supply house or internet?
Mike
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12-02-2006, 02:56 AM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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I bought it at a local electrical supply house, but you can get one over the 'net as well.
Just look for the main panel hardwired model.
Good luck, folks.
Ozz
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12-02-2006, 01:47 PM
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#16
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Denton
Posts: 376
M.O.C. #5993
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We had a 50 amp hard wired "surge guard" installed as part of our initial purchase before taking delivery. We had it included into the final price of the unit labor included. Then I also use surge protectors off the outlets for my electronics and hope all this protection helps with any unforseeable future problems.
Remember the........
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