Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > GENERAL DISCUSSIONS > Tow Vehicles & Towing
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-10-2019, 01:59 PM   #41
JABURKHOLDER
Montana Master
 
JABURKHOLDER's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Cuyahoga Falls
Posts: 699
M.O.C. #18572
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTYB View Post
My question did state that I was over the payload rating for the truck. My take is that pin weight and cargo weight are two different things.
Pin weight IS cargo weight.
Cargo weight IS payload weight.
Call it what ever you want, its all part of the trucks GVWR.
 
__________________
ATC/NAC Jerry A. Burkholder, USN (RET.)

Rule #1. The Chief is always right.
Rule #2. When in doubt, refer to rule #1.
JABURKHOLDER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2019, 02:02 PM   #42
JABURKHOLDER
Montana Master
 
JABURKHOLDER's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Cuyahoga Falls
Posts: 699
M.O.C. #18572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow Hand View Post
The truck is designed to stop the max towing capacity.
The trucks brakes are designed to stop the TRUCKS GVWR.
__________________
ATC/NAC Jerry A. Burkholder, USN (RET.)

Rule #1. The Chief is always right.
Rule #2. When in doubt, refer to rule #1.
JABURKHOLDER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2019, 02:10 PM   #43
JABURKHOLDER
Montana Master
 
JABURKHOLDER's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Cuyahoga Falls
Posts: 699
M.O.C. #18572
So much opinion and misinformation out there.

Maybe just ignore everything and buy/use what ever you want.
Excessive brake wear, excessive suspension wear, potential handling issues be damned.

Just My Final Opinion
__________________
ATC/NAC Jerry A. Burkholder, USN (RET.)

Rule #1. The Chief is always right.
Rule #2. When in doubt, refer to rule #1.
JABURKHOLDER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2019, 02:23 PM   #44
BiggarView
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: home base IL, OTR anywhere
Posts: 532
M.O.C. #19382
Send a message via AIM to BiggarView
Quote:
Originally Posted by JABURKHOLDER View Post
So much opinion and misinformation out there.

Maybe just ignore everything and buy/use whatever you want.
Excessive brake wear, excessive suspension wear, potential handling issues be damned.

Just My Final Opinion
If only it was that simple and nobody had to share the road. I'd sure hate to be near somebody that had an issue because they made a bad choice and it got me caught in the middle of a potential wreck or worse.

I'm amazed at the number of people that think the "pin weight" advertised somehow magically remains the same once they load up their trailers but they conveniently ignore that change in trailer dynamics during the purchase decision. Naturally it is less critical for those that do not load up their trailers... but for FTers this is really important.
__________________

2017 RAM 3500 Laramie CCLB Dually CTD Aisin, OEM auto level rear air-ride, B&W hitch
2020 3813MS Legacy Cobalt FBP, MORryde 8K IS & pinbox, PI EMS,DIY mods by in-house "craftsman", RV security system Mk1 Beagle Alerter
BiggarView is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2019, 02:34 PM   #45
speedster100
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: owen sound
Posts: 491
M.O.C. #17566
I've drove Tractor Trailers, flatbeds, dump's, box/cargo and I've also towed 5er RV trailers for many many years and my RV tow vehicles have ranged from 1500 series to now 3500 series SRW... Quite frankly I've towed the current 5er which is a 3790RD thousands of miles with both a 2500HD duramax and 3500HD duramax SRW's and quite frankly there is really absolutely no difference in how they handle the trailer at all. The 2500HD I had air bags installed, sat level and really didn't hardly squat at all with the Monty hooked up. The 3500HD does squat quite a bit, down to the helpers. The 3500HD rides better unloaded than the 2500HD did unloaded and hence the reason I changed. Both trucks handle the trailer fine... I am always amazed at how people on this forum and others talk about safety only comes with dually's etc... Speculation at best... You want to talk safety how about mandatory training & licensing for all these folks on the road that just bought a big dually or SRW & a 40ft trailer and way they go... The idiots behind the wheel are the number one safety issue on the road but I'm real glad you'all feel like you are so much safer in your dually's... This guy that started the post already has his truck and you are all trying to tell him to buy a dually .........OMG get over yourself... What is good for you doesn't mean it is for someone else... Your level of comfort will be different than others so IMHO let the guy make up his own mind as he already spent huge money on the truck, chances are real good that he'll be comfortable towing with his 250HD Ford.
speedster100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2019, 03:29 PM   #46
Montana Man
Montana Master
 
Montana Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Carson City
Posts: 2,017
M.O.C. #21963
Speedster, the OP asked for advice. He is getting it. Anyone condoning an F250 with a gvwr of 10k lbs. to pull a 40' is giving bad advice.
__________________
2016 3160, Legacy, Sailuns, Splendide 2100 xc vented, 1 1/2" axle lift blocks, disk brakes. 2014 Ram 3500 SRW SWB 4X4 6.7 Aisin Mega Cab, EBC slotted disks and brakes, Titan fuel tank.
Montana Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2019, 07:21 PM   #47
mlh
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,528
M.O.C. #2283
A 3/4 and 1 ton SRW truck has the SAME brakes in fact they are the same truck except for the rear springs so how can the 1 ton SRW truck stop better when pulling a camper than the 3/4 ton truck?
I’m really trying to understand that.
Lynwood
__________________
www.harrellsprec.com
Lynwood Harrell
323 RL HC 2008 F250
mlh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2019, 08:31 PM   #48
BB_TX
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: McKinney
Posts: 7,133
M.O.C. #6433
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlh View Post
A 3/4 and 1 ton SRW truck has the SAME brakes in fact they are the same truck except for the rear springs so how can the 1 ton SRW truck stop better when pulling a camper than the 3/4 ton truck?
I’m really trying to understand that.
Lynwood
I’m with you. If you go to parts.ford.com and look up Motorcraft brake parts for an F250 or F350 the discription for rotors, pads, calipers, etc contain the phrase “fits all F250/F350 with single rear wheels”.
__________________
Bill & Patricia
Riley, our Golden
2007 3075RL (recently sold, currently without)
BB_TX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2019, 09:27 PM   #49
William J Stocker Sr
New Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Grand Ridge
Posts: 6
M.O.C. #23089
Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_TX View Post
I’m with you. If you go to parts.ford.com and look up Motorcraft brake parts for an F250 or F350 the discription for rotors, pads, calipers, etc contain the phrase “fits all F250/F350 with single rear wheels”.
The F250 also has the same steering wheel as the F450.

The sticker on the door pillar has the ratings for your particular vehicle. They're ratings, not suggestions...
William J Stocker Sr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2019, 11:31 PM   #50
Last2Die
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Menifee
Posts: 1,109
M.O.C. #22986
I heard the 450 has the heavy duty seat belts....
__________________
2018 3920fb 2020 GMC Denali 3500 4x4 Duramax, 10 speed Allison. LB SRW, Firestone air bags with Airlift wireless onboard compressor. Anderson Ultimate Hitch. MX4 folding cover. 50gal titan in bed transfer tank. Onan 6500 lp genset installed by me ! Had: 2 HF 3500 Inverters with Parallel Kit
Last2Die is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2019, 06:12 AM   #51
Slow Hand
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Livermore
Posts: 492
M.O.C. #17391
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggarView View Post
Slowhand... you left out the operative word... "yet." or put another way "so far". Not once in my post did I say the OP needs a dually. I used the words "potentially" and "possibly" WRT needing more truck. Yes specs matter and being within specs will determine what one needs. You say you are right at the door sticker. Good for you. What you have works for you. I also did not imply brakes were a sole condition for such decisions, I was talking about control, the last point I made stated in my opening statement. A heavy trailer wags the dog or at least has the potential to. Under those conditions... more truck is better than less.

And yes not everybody needs a dually... the math will determine what is needed, not ego.
I agree and sorry to rip your post. I just get tired of guys saying all this crap about the truck can't stop the trailer. The lawyers are going to get you. My Montana has a gross loaded weight rating of 13,000 Lb's. so I am at the limit of my truck but I dont carry more than I need on my trips to keep the weight down. I do however need to tell my wife if you don't wear that then it doesn't go LOL.

There were lots of things I took into consideration when getting my truck. I use mine for more than towing so a dually wasn't practical for me. I do however tow all over the country with mine so I am not a camper so to speak. I do believe that when a guy buys a camper he should be practical and get what he needs for the type of camping he is going to do. Like a guy that goes camping does he need a washer and dryer or a residential fridge. If you got the money than get the biggest baddest rig but you diffidently need the right equipment to tow it.Again I apologize for ripping your post.
Slow Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2019, 06:32 AM   #52
Waricha
Seasoned Camper
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Blossvale
Posts: 59
M.O.C. #20684
I tow a 2016 3402RL with a 2013 F250 and have not had any issues with it. I use the Trailer Life tow reference guide as my reference and have been very satisfied with the performance. The only thing I added to the truck were some load leveling springs because the the truck did sag under the weight of the trailer. It still had some articulation in the suspension, but not quite enough and would bottom out over substantial bumps/pot holes. The load leveling springs did the trick. If I had it to do over again, I would go with an F350 and may do that for my next truck. Your 250 should be fine. Just check the towing guide or have the dealer look it up for you. Good luck!
Waricha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2019, 06:36 AM   #53
BB_TX
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: McKinney
Posts: 7,133
M.O.C. #6433
Quote:
Originally Posted by William J Stocker Sr View Post
The F250 also has the same steering wheel as the F450.

The sticker on the door pillar has the ratings for your particular vehicle. They're ratings, not suggestions...
I am not questioning the ratings of the trucks. Just the frequent comment that the F250 doesn’t have the braking power of the F350 SRW.
__________________
Bill & Patricia
Riley, our Golden
2007 3075RL (recently sold, currently without)
BB_TX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2019, 09:03 AM   #54
CruiserMB
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 7
M.O.C. #23875
Thank you all for the information, got some good advice. I guess I didn't know what a hot topic this was but for good reason. Ultimately I will make the right decision, I too want to be safe and keep the people on the road with me safe while trying to accommodate my wants and needs in a 5th wheel.
I know I have enough truck now, it just comes with some sacrifice on the size of trailer I buy.

Sorry for opening this can of worms again, quite alot of different opinions for sure.

Thanks again for all the responses, went and looked at rv's again yesterday, !!!

Jeff
CruiserMB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2019, 10:11 AM   #55
mtlakejim
Montana Master
 
mtlakejim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bee Branch
Posts: 2,620
M.O.C. #20693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Man View Post
Speedster, the OP asked for advice. He is getting it. Anyone condoning an F250 with a gvwr of 10k lbs. to pull a 40' is giving bad advice.
EXACTLY. When someone ASKS for advice on here they deserve the debate that has happened here.

CLEARLY everyone and his brother has thoughts on this!

The one thing I try to do when I answer the question is keep the OP in mind NOT the rest of you. If I was new to the towing game and was asking such questions I would want someone to steer me in the direction of being safe for certain. That's why I tell folks like that what I consider the safest route. IF they decide to do less then its on them and I have a clear conscious.

I do agree with one thing for sure though. There are a lot of folks that have never towed that go out and buy a 40' 5th wheel and head off down the road. I fear those folks far more than those who are a little overweight!!
__________________
James & Irene Wilson
Bee Branch, AR.
2017 Ram 1 ton diesel duallyCrew Cab/Long Bed
2018 Montana High Country 381TH Garage Full of Toys
mtlakejim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2019, 10:15 AM   #56
BB_TX
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: McKinney
Posts: 7,133
M.O.C. #6433
Quote:
Originally Posted by CruiserMB View Post
Thank you all for the information, got some good advice. I guess I didn't know what a hot topic this was but for good reason. .....

Sorry for opening this can of worms again, quite alot of different opinions for sure.......
We wouldn’t know what to do without a hot truck discussion every couple weeks.
__________________
Bill & Patricia
Riley, our Golden
2007 3075RL (recently sold, currently without)
BB_TX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2019, 10:28 AM   #57
Last2Die
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Menifee
Posts: 1,109
M.O.C. #22986
You mean every other day
__________________
2018 3920fb 2020 GMC Denali 3500 4x4 Duramax, 10 speed Allison. LB SRW, Firestone air bags with Airlift wireless onboard compressor. Anderson Ultimate Hitch. MX4 folding cover. 50gal titan in bed transfer tank. Onan 6500 lp genset installed by me ! Had: 2 HF 3500 Inverters with Parallel Kit
Last2Die is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2019, 03:02 PM   #58
BiggarView
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: home base IL, OTR anywhere
Posts: 532
M.O.C. #19382
Send a message via AIM to BiggarView
Seems like it never ends, let alone every other day.
__________________

2017 RAM 3500 Laramie CCLB Dually CTD Aisin, OEM auto level rear air-ride, B&W hitch
2020 3813MS Legacy Cobalt FBP, MORryde 8K IS & pinbox, PI EMS,DIY mods by in-house "craftsman", RV security system Mk1 Beagle Alerter
BiggarView is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2019, 06:28 PM   #59
beeje
Montana Master
 
beeje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: westminster md
Posts: 2,318
M.O.C. #17894
Its pretty darn simple to me. You truck and or trailer have many different weight ratings that are NOT to be exceeded...…..

Lets think of this in another way, lets say you are building a house. Its location is in my neck of the woods (central MD) where you can get 3-4 feet of snow on occasion. But because its cheaper or what ever reason, you decide to get roof trusses engineered to meet the roof load of, say (Columbia SC). Will that work and hold the roof up ?. Absolutely, until it snows 4 feet and causes the roof collapse.

I am not an engineer by any stretch of imagination, but I am pretty sure things like the bridges we all drive over are designed to handle the maximum weight that could be put upon them. (Think the Chesapeake Bay bridge with 80k tractor trailers lined end to end.

Our trucks are the same way. There is a reason for the yellow sticker on the door jamb that states its maximum payload capacity.
__________________
2018 Chevy 3500 LTZ Dually Diesel 4x4 CCLB
2011 Montana 3455 SA. 6 point level up. Disc brakes. Curt Q24 Hitch. 5 step glow steps
Progressive EMS. Valterra tank valves. Sailun G637 tires. ARP fridge control. All led lighting. Mor Ryde IS
beeje is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2019, 09:05 AM   #60
Fish
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Marion
Posts: 234
M.O.C. #22281
The 10,000 pound gvwr for "3/4 ton" trucks is really nothing more than a registration and licensing scheme. 10,000 minus your truck weight equals your payload capacity. The axle ratings on most of these HD 2500/250 trucks will be a lot more than that. The tires will sometimes be a limiting factor but they can be changed and upgraded.

I'm positive my 2015.5 Chevrolet 2500HD crew cab duramax 4x4 with 6 ft 6 inch bed would have pulled the Montana HC I have now, and also stopped it. I would have been over the payload of 2325 pounds but well under my IL license plate of 14,000 pounds.

But we were looking at fifth wheels to live in and all of them were huge, I went ahead and traded for a dually before we bought the Montana. For my own piece of mind. I didn't like the thought of a 41 ft fifth wheel pushing me down the curvy roads of Monteagle Mountain on my way to Florida in my short bed single wheel duramax.

Chevy said my duramax said it would pull a fifth wheel of over 17,000 pounds, my Montana tops out at 16,500.
__________________
2019 Montana High Country 384BR
2018 Ram cclb 4x4 6.7 cummins/aisin dually
Fish is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.