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Old 12-10-2019, 09:35 PM   #21
MARK A
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I would definitely buy another one, but the dealership would probably hate me when it was over. As stated, they're great rigs it's just QC and mostly little annoyances that ruin the experience.

THAT said, next time I'm giving the Verano by VanLeigh a close look next time.



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Old 12-10-2019, 09:43 PM   #22
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I would definitely buy another one, but the dealership would probably hate me when it was over. As stated, they're great rigs it's just QC and mostly little annoyances that ruin the experience.

THAT said, next time I'm giving the Verano by VanLeigh a close look next time.



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We also leaned towards the Pinnacle, very nice finish work
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Old 12-11-2019, 06:17 AM   #23
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With this being our first Monty (3700LK) and owning 2 TT prior with ZERO issues, would I buy another Monty, No, because we love our current floor plan of the 3700 LK. If they come out with a combo version of the 3810MS and the 3700LK, we'd buy it, so would we buy another Monty, sure would. The issues that we've experienced so far are basic thing and common and small. The biggest issue we had so far was bees nest in the front AC, but that is rare and not a monty issue. The biggest Monty issue we had, was the rear skirting falling off, but other then that, nothing huge.
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Old 12-11-2019, 07:05 AM   #24
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Ours is a High Country so probably not what you are considering though it is a first cousin to the Montana. But with that said, yes, we would buy another. Yes, I would do a better job of researching the basics, but I can't fault Keystone on that so wont.

If you have a problem with fiy=t and finish, that's Keystone. If you have a chassis problem that is also Keystone but Lippert will often correct THEIR mistakes. If you have a problem with an accessory, don't blame Keystone, they buy air conditioners, stoves, furnaces and the rest of the accessories by the carload from outside suppliers and all have separate warranties though a dealer will attempt to get his parts via Keystone.

Dealers - they can be as low down as pond scum right on up to being tha best in any industry. Do your due diligence. That guy opening the RVs doors is usually paid on commission and will promise the world for a sale. We have two dealers in the general area - pond life for one and top of the list for the other.

Do your homework, then buy what works best for you
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Old 12-11-2019, 07:54 AM   #25
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You are pretty generous letting Keystone/Montana off the hook for all the other suppliers parts and equipment. We aren't buying direct from the other suppliers we are buying in this case a Montana product. Part of the problem is Keystone/Thor sourcing parts & products at best price regardless of quality. They buy the parts & products and put them in their product for sales to consumers...

So do automobile builders, when I have a problem with my GM or Ford car or truck I don't have to deal with the supplier of the part that failed I deal with GM or Ford...

Don't really understand your logic ......... When auto's have many failed parts that they are repairing under warranty they generally either have the supplier fix their issue or they get a better product through another supplier.....

Putting crap parts & products into a higher end auto would assure that their market share disappears in a very short period of time. I can't imagine what a consumer would do if say Audi or GM or Ford said sorry you have to go deal with AMG the supplier of your air conditioning compressor its not our issue.... Seriously think about it !

There are very well known issues with certain parts & equipment failing on these Montana's and other Keystone/Thor products yet they continue to buy the same from the same sources knowing full well they will fail in a year or two.

They gamble on them failing outside the 1yr warranty..... They let the consumers pickup the tabs and they don't give a rats arse....

Automobile builders used to do the same in the 60's & 70's until their competition from Japan and alike started making them look bad and their market shares were drying up.

Unfortunately the RV industry due in part to THOR buying up pretty much everything has no real competition and thus they continue to source crap parts & products for cheapest price to maximize their profits and let the consumers pick up the tab for replacement.

Aftermarket longer term insurance purchase companies are falling by the wayside as they are hit by continuous replacement of certain parts... while consumers keep getting nickel & dimed to death for smaller parts that fail that they replace as they cost less than the $100 that generally the longer term warranty/insurance deduction costs... Just sayin........
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Old 12-11-2019, 08:47 AM   #26
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Are there actually "high-end" products built for the RV industry? Seems like I mostly see the same brands over and over in all of the OEM's. Sure, we can blame Keystone...or SOB...for sourcing poorly built AC's, Furnaces, Stoves, Sound Systems, Etc, but are there well-built alternatives designed for over the road travel? Dometic, Suburban, NorCold, Furrion, Atwood show up everywhere.

I suppose better faucets are available but how many furnace or AC or Fridge options are there?
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Old 12-11-2019, 08:53 AM   #27
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I've been looking to buy a Montana Trailer for about 6 months and every time I see a Montana and have stopped to talk to the owners and ask questions almost everyone I talked to said they were happy with their current Montana and would buy another. There was only one owner I talked to said he didn't like his Montana and wouldn't buy another.
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Old 12-12-2019, 07:58 AM   #28
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No regrets about my Montana. I hope to never buy another fifth wheel because I have this one debugged and tricked out the way I want it.
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:56 AM   #29
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Here is an interesting twist that also highlights the quality issues or lack there of.

We purchased a 2019 3791RD Legacy Full BP, we bought it used (previous owner had it less than 6 months). The Keystone warranty has a lot of small print for obvious reasons, regardless the real warranty is only one year it is only transferable to the 2nd owner which was myself.

Anyway I had a list of 38 warranty items needing resolved, I call every Keystone dealer in my area and they ALL refused to do the warranty work (in part because I did not purchase it from them. I called Keystone and say hey what is up with this how can you have dealers that WILL NOT service your products, Keystone did not seem too concerned about it however I was able to get them to find a dealer that would do the warranty work however they had to do some arm twisting and threatening the dealer.

While I was trying to find a Dealer that would do the warranty work while all refused I did ask them why, and the common thread was Keystone RV's have a lot of quality control and warranty issues and they are inundated with that kind of service and since Keystone pays such a low labor rate the dealers cannot afford to do warranty under these conditions otherwise with so much warranty work their service dept would be bankrupt.

I get that, this boils down to quality control and fit and finish being compromised. I purchased a used 5er (be it only 6 months old) because I know that the warranty work would be over whelming and time consuming and I wanted some one else to have dealt with that. However turns out the previous owner never used the RV so I am having to deal with it now.

To top it off I took it in in Early Nov for warranty work and the warranty work will not be competed till mid to late Jan, not because the dealer does not have the time, they could get it all done in a week it is because the warranty approval process time and some of the parts (counter and cabinet parts) take that long to get from Keystone.

This RV purchase has red flags all over it. It was also very clear to us that older RV's were better built (in general) however cutting cost is so obvious that newer models are suffering as are the consumers of those.

So this subject is subjective based on model and year as well...

One final observation our 2019 3791RD with Legacy and Full Body Paint had a MSRP of $110K sold for $86K to the previous owner we purchased 6 months after sold new for $58K that is massive depreciation.

Look we love the floor plan and are just now learning more about the medioker quality so we are in a wait and see pattern for longer term satisfaction. Fortunately since we bought it less than 1 year old and it already took the big depreciation hit we can always sell and move on if needed without too much loss. but for those that bought new pre depreciation there options may not be so easy .
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Old 12-12-2019, 10:09 AM   #30
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Anyway I had a list of 38 warranty items needing resolved,



Are there not some 'piddlin' items that might be best done by you, the owner? I understand frustration and lack of quality now in most RVs regardless of cost but there are a lot of little items that are a waste of your ownership time for a dealer to hold your RV for more weeks waiting for near nonobtanium parts
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Old 12-12-2019, 10:28 AM   #31
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Are there not some 'piddlin' items that might be best done by you, the owner? I understand frustration and lack of quality now in most RVs regardless of cost but there are a lot of little items that are a waste of your ownership time for a dealer to hold your RV for more weeks waiting for near nonobtanium parts
Dave I could do likely some of the work my self, why should i though when all/most these issues should have been caught in QC, and some are just due to low quality materials. Like I said the issue is waiting for the parts (6-8 weeks just for some parts) I could see long waits in spring and summer but not Nov DEC Jan.... I really take issue with Keystone dealers refusing to service under warranty, can you imagine taking your new car to the dealer and them denying you warranty service? Keystone needs to reform the warranty service process.

It seams that Keystone and their dealers are are war with each other mainly because Keystone refuses to pay reasonable labor cost for warranty work which in part devalues the warranty especially if no dealer wants to do it.
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Old 12-12-2019, 11:13 AM   #32
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Dave I could do likely some of the work my self, why should i though when all/most these issues should have been caught in QC, and some are just due to low quality materials. Like I said the issue is waiting for the parts (6-8 weeks just for some parts) I could see long waits in spring and summer but not Nov DEC Jan.... I really take issue with Keystone dealers refusing to service under warranty, can you imagine taking your new car to the dealer and them denying you warranty service? Keystone needs to reform the warranty service process.

It seams that Keystone and their dealers are are war with each other mainly because Keystone refuses to pay reasonable labor cost for warranty work which in part devalues the warranty especially if no dealer wants to do it.

I understand your frustration. Unfortunately Keystone (Thor Industries) is part of the ongoing disservice to customers that seems to be epidemic in the RV industry. Low end right on up through the seven figure Class A's are suffering from this problem with Thor and Forest River leading the way. Hopefully some heavy handed oversight will appear in the reasonably near future - but probably too late for my wants and desires. I just try to keep on top of maintenance and care as I don't see any replacement in the future - and it's paid for



I guess I'd rather see our 5er in the driveway rather then sitting on a dealer's back lot. We were spoiled since our High Country had a grand total of 5 warranty items, the worst of which was a faded nose cap which Keystone paid to have painted. We were without the trailer for a whopping two weeks. They painted the cap, replaced the toilet, fireplace, dented hub caps and the wardrobe mirror track(which I had to od again with heavier duty parts). There really haven't been many other problems other then wear and tear from using it over 28,000 miles and 75-90 nights a year since 2014.


Good luck and let us know how you make out with your list.
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Old 12-12-2019, 11:51 AM   #33
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I understand your frustration. Unfortunately Keystone (Thor Industries) is part of the ongoing disservice to customers that seems to be epidemic in the RV industry. Low end right on up through the seven figure Class A's are suffering from this problem with Thor and Forest River leading the way. Hopefully some heavy handed oversight will appear in the reasonably near future - but probably too late for my wants and desires. I just try to keep on top of maintenance and care as I don't see any replacement in the future - and it's paid for



I guess I'd rather see our 5er in the driveway rather then sitting on a dealer's back lot. We were spoiled since our High Country had a grand total of 5 warranty items, the worst of which was a faded nose cap which Keystone paid to have painted. We were without the trailer for a whopping two weeks. They painted the cap, replaced the toilet, fireplace, dented hub caps and the wardrobe mirror track(which I had to od again with heavier duty parts). There really haven't been many other problems other then wear and tear from using it over 28,000 miles and 75-90 nights a year since 2014.


Good luck and let us know how you make out with your list.


Dave

Thanks for the feedback, prior to buying the Montana a few months ago we owned several Class A's last two were Fleetwood Bounders, it so happens the dealer doing our Keystone warranty work is also the Fleetwood dealer, however never an issue getting warranty work done in a timely manor or parts, I guess Fleetwood pays more or carries a bigger hammer than Keystone with their dealers. What Fleetwood has also done is they have opened up regional factory owned service centers not just for warranty for for all future maintenance. That would likely be a wise consideration for Keystone to help salvage their reputation. Thor is also the lower quality and budget end of the Class A market as well, is seems to be endemic among all/most of their brands.

To be fair though in the last 4 years component reliability and quality of all brands has diminished. The old sayin "they do not build things like they used too" still holds true only now we must add they do not service things like they use too...

We are somewhat optimistic that once the bugs are worked out the Montana will be a suitable RV for us, only time will tell. For nor though highly frustrated.
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Old 12-15-2019, 02:45 PM   #34
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Do you know why they dropped that floor plan, just wondering.
I would like to have a front bath but wife says no. Guests having to go through the bedroom to use bathroom. I wouldn’t want to give up the space necessary for a half bath.
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Old 12-15-2019, 02:46 PM   #35
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Well, Quality in all of them is worse than bad. We've Montane 3791 RD that has spend first 10 months of its life in dealership being fixed and still not done.
Looking at all the marginal quality materials on it, I don't expect it to last too long without complete refurbishment inside.

Key is,, do your homework on predelivery inspection and don't take a possession until all the issues are fixed.

I don't expect to get another Keystone ever.
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Old 12-15-2019, 03:05 PM   #36
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We have a 2017 3160RL that we are looking to sell. We are building a new house in the spring and just don’t think we will do much traveling. Love the unit, have not had any issues with it. Almost the same layout as the 3120’s with the kitchen flipped. We just haven’t been able to use it as we thought when we bought it. Send a message if you are interested in a 2017 - 3160RL.
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Old 12-15-2019, 03:13 PM   #37
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If I could find a floor plan that I liked, I'd buy another Monty. I have had minimal problems with mine so maybe I got lucky and got a good one. I read on this forum about lots of problems, some of which I feel are the result of too much technology in a rolling earthquake. I subscribe to the logic that says "just because you can do something, doesn't mean that you should". I have a friend with a 2019 2131 and a year after delivery they are still sorting out problems.
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Old 12-15-2019, 03:59 PM   #38
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Of all the threads that might get repeated, this one is certainly worthwhile!


We have owned two Keystones and both were about what I would consider average in fit and finish for the industry in the price range/size.


We bought while just weekend warriors never expecting to be full time. While our unit is fine for the occasional vacation or weekends it is not what I would have purchased for full time use. Having said that, it has performed suitably in that role so far.


Knowing what I know now, we would have purchased a higher end model or a custom. In our situation we can afford and justify the additional expense of same. Likewise there are some items I would have added right up front as part of the deal (Independent suspension, disc brakes and cushion hitch pin come to mind for starters).


My advice is to do exactly what you are doing. Look at all the owners websites and attend as many shows as possible!! TAKE YOUR TIME!!! Don't expect the unit you purchase to be absolutely perfect with no issues because NONE of them are. Your decision is going to weight a lot on questions only you can answer (are we full time or just weekends, Budget limits, floor plan preferences etc....).


Happy hunting. Looking at new RVs is one of our favorite past times. No sooner are we in one than we are looking for our next one.
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Old 12-15-2019, 04:03 PM   #39
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We have a new Montana 3121rl. We love it! We bought ours last June. We have had to have the front door worked on. I think that the door handle design is not to smart. I got locked out while my husband was gone. Our other campers would always unlock when you opened the door from the inside. This one does not. It only unlocks the dead bolt so when I shut the door I was locked out. Thankfully I have an Apple Watch and could call my husband to come back.
We’ve had the toilet replaced, the ceiling fan replaced, one folding chair and the wAter pump. Now that all the bugs are worked out (fingers crossed). I will also mention that we bought from camp world so that my be the reason for some of this getting passed on to the consumer. We found through keystone a great dealer to do our repairs. We really enjoy this unit and have NO regrets!!! Good luck with your purchase!
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:36 PM   #40
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The number one rule of RV life that few people know before they dive in is; You better be handy and know or learn how to work on your RV. Even if you buy it brand new. It is said a boat is "a hole in the water you throw money in". An RV is; "a hole in your driveway (or campground) you throw money in" if you aren't willing and able to work on it yourself.
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